369 replies to this topic

[Lupis Volk]

Ruar, on 13 March 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

It's not shelved. It's delayed for testing so they can put out a better product. The skill tree will happen, we just want something that doesn't alienate the majority of the player base.

I'm amazed at the number of people who can't be asked to read what is actually written and see the intent behind the delay and the fact we will get the skill tree in the not so distant future.

Funny thing it's the same people who were snide and snarky to those who were "acting like the sky was falling" They are hypocrites. They attacked those they deemed were being hyperbolic and now they are acting hyperbolic.

[PraetorGix]

Korbos, on 13 March 2017 - 09:23 PM, said:

The fact that they have to change something because people are crying about clicking a mouse too many times is about the saddest thing I have heard. These people are playing computer games. THAT INVOLVES CLICKING YOUR MOUSE A TON. Pathetic that people would complain about clicking a damn mouse.

Yup. I mean how many times over 91 they click the f*cking mouse during a standard match? But no, things must be done their way or else they will scream and cry a lot...
The skill tree could ´ve been released to the public, could´ve gotten MUCH MORE FEEDBACK FROM EVERYONE INSTEAD OF JUST THE WHINY NECKBEARDS FROM REDDIT, and could've been iterated and improved as much as it could in the limbo of eternal PTS it's now in. But instead of giving things a chance and just try it out it's much easier to act like a big hairy baby; because let's face it, by now we all know PGI responds to giant tantrums, no matter how idiotic those may be.

[Cpt Leprechaun]

Posting this for exposure

So1amha skill tree proposal

Spread the word

Edited by Cpt Leprechaun, 13 March 2017 - 10:28 PM.

[Too Much Love]

I have a strong feeling that community really waited for the new skill tree and wanted it implemented. The news that it will be delayed look dissatisfying. Most of us are tired of waiting.

It's good that PGI is listening to the community (who would say otherwise after numerous examples when they stepped back due to the fan base reaction), but it's bad that only a portion of always negative playerbase beacame representatives of the whole community.

I guess the majority wanted to see the new system as soon as 21 of march. It could become the long-awaited novelty in MWO. Now it postponed. As Donald Trump put it, "bad"!

Edited by drunkblackstar, 13 March 2017 - 09:52 PM.

[PraetorGix]

drunkblackstar, on 13 March 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

I have a strong feeling that community really waited for the new skill tree and wanted it implemented. The news that it will be delayed look dissatisfying. Most of us are tired of waiting.

It's good that PGI is listening to the community (who would say otherwise after numerous examples when they stepped back due to the fan base reaction), but it's bad that only a portion of always negative playerbase beacame representatives of the whole community.

I guess the majority wanted to see the new system as soon as 21 of march. It could become the long-awaited novelty in MWO. Now it postponed. As Donald Trump put it, "bad"!

Agreed. I wish I could be as eloquent as you, but I'm beyond pissed and completely sick of this f*cking "vocal minority" right now.

[Ruar]

drunkblackstar, on 13 March 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

I have a strong feeling that community really waited for the new skill tree and wanted it implemented. The news that it will be delayed look dissatisfying. Most of us are tired of waiting.

It's good that PGI is listening to the community (who would say otherwise after numerous examples when they stepped back due to the fan base reaction), but it's bad that only a portion of always negative playerbase beacame representatives of the whole community.

I guess the majority wanted to see the new system as soon as 21 of march. It could become the long-awaited novelty in MWO. Now it postponed. As Donald Trump put it, "bad"!

From what I saw the community wanted another round of testing after they made the tree linear and after they figured out how to ensure no one had to regrind something they already had.

The vast majority of threads and posts contained those two messages with a small minority arguing that everything was just fine.

I guess your mileage on the forums may vary.

[Koniks]

Thanks for listening and responding to our feedback.

[Cpt Leprechaun]

PraetorGix, on 13 March 2017 - 09:54 PM, said:

Agreed. I wish I could be as eloquent as you, but I'm beyond pissed and completely sick of this f*cking "vocal minority" right now.

I dont post much but I can say that I think the skill tree was still objectively bad even in its last iteration. PGI said it wasnt being postponed indefinitely and that another PTS build will be on the way. I would rather the current system then what they had so far. its best it stays in the oven a bit longer.

[cougurt]

PraetorGix, on 13 March 2017 - 09:54 PM, said:

Agreed. I wish I could be as eloquent as you, but I'm beyond pissed and completely sick of this f*cking "vocal minority" right now.

did you poll the entire mechwarrior community and ask them what their thoughts were? or are you just assuming that anyone who disagrees with you must be in the minority?

[PraetorGix]

cougurt, on 13 March 2017 - 10:05 PM, said:

did you poll the entire mechwarrior community and ask them what their thoughts were?

Did you?

[PraetorGix]

Cpt Leprechaun, on 13 March 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

I dont post much but I can say that I think the skill tree was still objectively bad even in its last iteration. PGI said it wasnt being postponed indefinitely and that another PTS build will be on the way. I would rather the current system then what they had so far. its best it stays in the oven a bit longer.

Yes, the Skill tree needs improvement, and guess what? I'm even one of the most affected by this change, I'm one of the cheapskates with lots of mechs and very few modules. But no, something doesn't need to stay in development hell forever to improve. In live it could receive a lot more input and metrics and accelerate the process, no need for a longer PTS. Or do you think this bunch of crybabies are gonna be happy just because the tree stays in PTS 2 more months?

[Mister Glitchdragon]

drunkblackstar, on 13 March 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

It's good that PGI is listening to the community

Trust me, PGI has absolutely no problem listening to the community when the result is doing absolutely nothing and calling it a solution.

#soon #90days #minimallyviableproduct

[Iacov]

"certain players"..." future release"...

stop catering to a loud minority of players that probably don't even spend real money on this game
the cryhards ruin everything... and the skill tree will be scrapped just like energy draw because "certain people" will never be happy

mwo is an online game... and like in any other living online game changes happen
and changes sometimes mean loosing current progress
stop catering to the whiners and stand for what you believe is best for your product... I want to play your product not the min max meta Frankenstein "certain people" want to play

Edited by Iacov, 13 March 2017 - 10:17 PM.

[Too Much Love]

cougurt, on 13 March 2017 - 10:05 PM, said:

did you poll the entire mechwarrior community and ask them what their thoughts were? or are you just assuming that anyone who disagrees with you must be in the minority?

For sure it's hard for ordinary person to mesure the whole community opinion. One of the PGI's problem is that they can't do this either.

Anyway, I'm looking at the numbers of "likes" under this thread posts, and it seems that the numbers of those who support the new skill tree and those who oppose it are roughly the same.

[cougurt]

PraetorGix, on 13 March 2017 - 10:06 PM, said:

Did you?

no? i never suggested that a majority was in favor of postponing the skill tree, just that trying to make a claim like that is pointless without numbers.

[Koniks]

PraetorGix, on 13 March 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

Yes, the Skill tree needs improvement, and guess what? I'm even one of the most affected by this change, I'm one of the cheapskates with lots of mechs and very few modules. But no, something doesn't need to stay in development hell forever to improve. In live it could receive a lot more input and metrics and accelerate the process, no need for a longer PTS. Or do you think this bunch of crybabies are gonna be happy just because the tree stays in PTS 2 more months?

This is a major re-working to the daily experience of playing the game. It directly affects the value of the time already put into the game and the time players would put into it going forward. The feature was announced at MechCon in December, slated for release in February, and scheduled for only 1 PTS session before being patched in. We only got a second iteration for testing because the playerbase was vocal in its feedback and criticisms.

Would you agree that the intial process was insufficiently robust for adequately testing the feature, gathering and analyzing feedback about it, and revising before release? We wouldn't be having a conversation about a feature getting pushed back if an adequate process had been in place from the start. We'd just be completing the process as designed, on schedule.

As for iterating on live, the design had massive flaws that are requiring significant revisions. They'd either be setting themselves up for losing players or multiple rounds of refunds, both of which should be avoided. In the past, iterating on live has also occurred slower than compared with when they use the PTS. That's not tenable a situation with a change that's both this large in scope and required sizeable revisions.

[Reno Blade]

While I was looking forward to the release, I agree that it's better to take more time to give the players a better experience (be it cost/refund or design).

I am even more looking forward to the next PTS of the Skill tree.

Then we can move to get Info-Warfare PTS-X and Energy-Draw PTS-X up next and finish these too before we get new Techlevel-3 stuff after summer.

[Cpt Leprechaun]

PraetorGix, on 13 March 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

Yes, the Skill tree needs improvement, and guess what? I'm even one of the most affected by this change, I'm one of the cheapskates with lots of mechs and very few modules. But no, something doesn't need to stay in development hell forever to improve. In live it could receive a lot more input and metrics and accelerate the process, no need for a longer PTS. Or do you think this bunch of crybabies are gonna be happy just because the tree stays in PTS 2 more months?

if it comes out as a cooked system then yes ,yes i do think they will be happy.

[Linkin]

Now this is the communication we need, thank you PGI. Normally I am annoyed at delays and push backs, but imho this is the right choice. No apologies needed for the length of the original post, very thorough and that is good. I normally only stalk the forums as of late(when not in game occasionally) but I logged in just to like and comment on this. Not saying everything is peachy keen in MWO land, but this is an nice step . Looking forward to the next version(s) of the skill tree.

Thanks again PGI!

[Summoner6]

I reckon even if the new PTS comes out with a more refined skill tree that takes into account peoples Mastery levels on their mechs and compensates them by giving them an appropriate sum of funds to respec their already mastered mech, people will still hate it. Because its a change to a system that the community has only ever known. Here's an idea PGI - Have a poll in your posts allowing people to vote in favour or against the change. Then you can make up your mind about whether its a minority that's screaming the loudest or the consensus of the whole community. And of course have it limited to single IP addresses. I feel that some people would log into multiple computers to down vote any change you attempt to make.

I'm largely disappointed in this announcement, since there's nothing to really look forward to. A few mechs here and there and the new time line advancement that is likely to end up similar as this Skill tree PTS. I can see it now.. Flawed on arrival, yet with promise, changed with very good suggestions in mind, then community backlash hits like a truck (and instead of another round or two of testing before it drops) and ends up put on hold for 'further testing'. Best of luck PGI.