369 replies to this topic

[Kali Rinpoche]

Thank you PGI for listening.

I have been partially vocal about the economics of the new skill tree and how it could have harmed those that spent years mastering large stable. This response was well thought out and said exactly what needed to be said.

Now, I don't think we could have gotten to this point with out the 2 test runs and all the accumulated feed back both good and bad.

That being said, I still look forward to the remaster skill tree and the removal of the rule of 3.

I am appeased and I thank you!

Edited by Kali Rinpoche, 14 March 2017 - 11:56 AM.

[Snotskull]

"It is a bad plan that cannot be changed."

[IronEricP]

Thinking 2 things right now;

1. Work done on the mech should include value for skills to the elite level, granted, absolutely. But if all mastery did is add a module slot, an unfilled module slot isn't using the mech's true mastery. SOME difference in value should still be retained, and if the method they choose is to have current 'mastered' mechs get their first set of nodes free, PLUS give a MASSIVE amount of c-bills to the players that had a module for every slot on every mech, that IS good. But, those millions of c-bills need something WORTH spending on, or they really are getting nothing for them. Not saying I have the solution, but I can certainly see both sides of this argument, and know that less than 100% of us will be completely satisfied with the result.

I just hope for a reasonable compromise, so everyone gets SOMETHING out of their method.

2. I have to wonder (and have seen a few posts to this effect) if the new skill tree may be able to REPLACE quirks entirely, if a couple small things happen. Either: A) mechs that NEED buffs get several LOCKED, FREE, NOT COUNTING TOWARDS TOTAL SPENT skill nodes pre-equipped at purchase, OR certain mechs get better values from certain types of nodes.

Each has an advantage I think. In model A, (freebies) the CAP on those advantages is still the same; that mech just has some or all of it for free and can spend its upgrade points elsewhere. Under this method, if the MAX reduced UAC jam chance is 20%, then a Jagermech DD might start with 12%, but 20% is still the largest it can be raised to.

Under model B (improved nodes of type), that same Jager might get 5% jam reduction as opposed to 4% per node, giving it a max (assuming 5 such nodes) of 25% versus the 20% other mechs are limited to. This allows specialists to stay 'special' and be the best at what they were designed for. However, if someone wanted to do something completely different (LB-X?) they don't have to have UAC jam nodes unlocked on THEIR Jagermech DD.

Any thoughts?

[KrocodockleTheBooBoxLoader-GetIn]

Thank you thank you thank you!! Reinstalling mwo this very minute!

[Delta1262 Scorch]

That moment, when you're to gladly congrats your friends you're playing with or was agitating to join MWO, that finally there's only a week left till the skill tree update, one more week and maybe game will get some fresh air, become more interesting, and then you see this thread...
Honestly i don't know what to think and what to expect already. Just as with some mentions about lowered or even canceled c-bills compensations for the modules i saw somewhere here in the thread.
So in the end it all just comes to more non playing and waiting for the resolve of this update's fate, because, since the announcement i'm not planning to buy the variants of the mechs i don't need to master those that i have already, and waste c-bills and time, and use unmastered mechs in FW...well, you know the difference.
We all remember what was promised, and what terms was announced on the mechcon and in posts even before that:
Updated Assault mode that we're waiting since October or something like that, Skill tree, Inverse kinematics, those promises about mech legs are actually align with the ground, and not hanging in the air when mech is on the edge of the cliff etc. So March-April updates that we're named on the MechCon will show us the results(till now in 2017 we just saw the convoy mode and fixes, refixes, refixes of the fixes etc), so i think we'll see what and how will be implemented, if it will, and then it'll be time to consider if it will be a good time for a lot of players to finally comeback after that failed FW(was it phase 3 or 4 when the whole units left the game?), or forget about the game for the good.

[Crockdaddy]

Just a PSA ... if a poster has either a Clan Davion emblem or a Clan Wolf Emblem, you can basically disregard anything they are saying. The vets all know this but in case the newbies were not aware.

[Fr0z7y]

this to those who think clanners are going to be super op after the skill tree as we will have more options than they will and a bit more balance as we have better or more optional weapons: https://mwomercs.com/civil-war-update

also, the refund of modules is also addressed here as i want to point out they do say that "PROGRESS" will not be taken away from you, in lamen's terms, or just plain english, that means the amount of cbills you spent on things no longer going to be around WILL BE REFUNDED..

this on one hand is where i have to delete portions of what i am saying before i hit the post button, on the other being that people are just not reading what pgi is saying or understanding it i guess or skipping over large portions of what pgi is saying.

the upper class is what they looked at during this refund skill tree association not looking at the lower class and what they had in terms of cbills but having large amounts of mechs whether by buying with cash or cbills, and they apologized for this and said they are going to change their stance on this already.

so unless you are in competitions or part of the elite, not thinking you are but actually are, that pgi was catering to in the vip section, you may have had better tables but you werent in vip, then they werent looking at you in terms of refunds the same way during the initial release of the skill tree. the second release whereby reducing the cost by half was both business sense in making u pay mc for 6.5 million cbills to fully skill a mech (not totally smart for existing customers with existing mechs, but hey, it could have worked), was made to help you at this point still not catering to us over here in the cheap seats.

now that they have gotten past you guys that understood everything but still didn't want to pay it (wherein they called you cheapskates, and it was meant for you, not the rest of us), they have finally gotten to the rest of our comments because all of you were screaming too loud for them to hear us down here in the gutters. now they realized and apologized for the error of making us pay 500 million cbills just to reskill 100 mechs, 1 billion for 200 mechs, and so on and so forth.

i probably would not have played some of the mechs for a very very long time if ever again, only buying the properly hard pointed mechs that would for sure do me some good in faction matches after this unless it changed to what they are proposing now, in turn a lot of people would be doing the exact same thing, and then pgi would either let the game go belly up or be scrambling for damage control to bring "all the boys to the yard" again...

if you did not read everything but just skimmed, it shows in your comments, if you choose to ignore the good in it, it shows in your comments, if you if you read everything & understand it but choose to ignore it and blast pgi for stuff that was nit picky and look at a track record rather than their accomplishments then in that case i choose not to say what i think but to at least point out that it does show in your comments.

[Venatos]

"hey, lets force our players to grind elite status on two mechs they dont want to play, so they can elite the one they actually enjoy playing."
i dont care how stupid, broken or unbalanced the new skilltree is, its still a massive improvement over the current mindblowingly bad design.
just put the tree in! im not freaking wasting 66% of my limited gametime anymore!

[Tier5 Kerensky]

I'm...disappointed.

Edited by Teer Kerensky, 14 March 2017 - 01:52 PM.

[DavidStarr]

Finally one of the actual problems addressed (hint: C-Bills cost of the skill nodes was never a problem).

Teer Kerensky, on 14 March 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

I'm...disappointed.

Why?

[Crockdaddy]

Fr0z7y, on 14 March 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

this to those who think clanners are going to be super op after the skill tree as we will have more options than they will and a bit more balance as we have better or more optional weapons: https://mwomercs.com/civil-war-update

also, the refund of modules is also addressed here as i want to point out they do say that "PROGRESS" will not be taken away from you, in lamen's terms, or just plain english, that means the amount of cbills you spent on things no longer going to be around WILL BE REFUNDED..

this on one hand is where i have to delete portions of what i am saying before i hit the post button, on the other being that people are just not reading what pgi is saying or understanding it i guess or skipping over large portions of what pgi is saying.

the upper class is what they looked at during this refund skill tree association not looking at the lower class and what they had in terms of cbills but having large amounts of mechs whether by buying with cash or cbills, and they apologized for this and said they are going to change their stance on this already.

so unless you are in competitions or part of the elite, not thinking you are but actually are, that pgi was catering to in the vip section, you may have had better tables but you werent in vip, then they werent looking at you in terms of refunds the same way during the initial release of the skill tree. the second release whereby reducing the cost by half was both business sense in making u pay mc for 6.5 million cbills to fully skill a mech (not totally smart for existing customers with existing mechs, but hey, it could have worked), was made to help you at this point still not catering to us over here in the cheap seats.

now that they have gotten past you guys that understood everything but still didn't want to pay it (wherein they called you cheapskates, and it was meant for you, not the rest of us), they have finally gotten to the rest of our comments because all of you were screaming too loud for them to hear us down here in the gutters. now they realized and apologized for the error of making us pay 500 million cbills just to reskill 100 mechs, 1 billion for 200 mechs, and so on and so forth.

i probably would not have played some of the mechs for a very very long time if ever again, only buying the properly hard pointed mechs that would for sure do me some good in faction matches after this unless it changed to what they are proposing now, in turn a lot of people would be doing the exact same thing, and then pgi would either let the game go belly up or be scrambling for damage control to bring "all the boys to the yard" again...

if you did not read everything but just skimmed, it shows in your comments, if you choose to ignore the good in it, it shows in your comments, if you if you read everything & understand it but choose to ignore it and blast pgi for stuff that was nit picky and look at a track record rather than their accomplishments then in that case i choose not to say what i think but to at least point out that it does show in your comments.

I think you are missing the point. When PGI looked at this they looked at how 90% of the cases would work. Folks rightfully had some solid complaints. Voices from all over the spectrum were chiming in. For the high skilled guys at the end of the day this likely wouldn't have mattered much. Most of those players only play around 20 mechs anyway and expend money into the game fairly often regardless. However, folks who love Mech Warrior of all skill levels and had a large stable of mechs this was legitimately looking like a small slap in the face for all the time effort and most importantly money they have put into the game to this point. Those folks regardless of skill level should be taken care of. After all they will buy a sizeable portion of any pack which comes out in the future.

So PGI took a look at the edge cases which affected a small but important part of the population and realized they needed to do something. This is akin to Russ un-banning the many guys who were unfairly (or even fairly) banned by Niko back in the day.

You can't please everyone of course and some folks will always be salty (myself often included).

Personally I like the idea they are putting forth and I recognize (even when I am being semi sarcastic / salty) tuning will be required and in some cases I will get annoyed with some near future changes.

So ... while I wanted the change now ... GG to PGI for recognizing they need to do some more work on this first.

[Ramsess]

Ok, so no skill tree..2 patches with just a new mech. Nothing else... NOTHING, no new maps for any mode, no changes to other systems already in the game.

So my question is why do you want players to come play this game? why?

There's nothing new coming out with this game and it feels like for something new to come out it takes 8 months to 1 year... and that "new" thing is what? FW 3.2? 3.4? a new map? or a recycled map that used to exist already?

So why should players come back day to day to play this game? can you tell us PGI?

Because the only reason i really have is the friendship and camaraderie of my fellow House Marik pilots and pals all over IS.

[Rogue Jedi]

Peiper, on 14 March 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

I am heartened to see the players are being listened to. Now, how about some more maps, an economy, supply lines, salvage - you know, depth and meaning. We need more than death matches. Of course, we've been saying that for years.

I'll go back to my island now and shut up...

I agree most of what you are asking for would be nice.

However we do have more than just death matches, look at Assualt, Conquest and Escort modes, and to a lesser extent domination, unfortunately many people seem to prefer just simple deathmatch, so play every mode like skirmish, and are reluctant/unable to handle having something else to think about.

many times has someone moaned about the team capping on Conquest, even after that is what wins us the match.

a single Light Mech capping the enemy base on assualt can be very effective, precisely because the enemy tend not to position anyone to be able to quickly respond to a cap, then panic and send a lance to chase off a single Light Mech. having the cap point opens up some great options for variaty rather than just deathmatch.


I have even seen people on Domination ignore the objective, flank, wipe out 11 Mechs without losing anyone and loose the match because they forgot/ignored that they were playing Domination.

Crockdaddy, on 14 March 2017 - 12:55 PM, said:

Just a PSA ... if a poster has either a Clan Davion emblem or a Clan Wolf Emblem, you can basically disregard anything they are saying. The vets all know this but in case the newbies were not aware.

Davion are an Inner Sphere faction, not a Clan, so there is no such thing as a Clan Davion emblem

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 14 March 2017 - 04:42 PM.

[Aan Allein]

I'm sad to see this stopped as well. Was looking forward to the new content, customization, and challenges. I hope we get some time on this before the Civil War pre-order period expires.

[Crockdaddy]

Rogue Jedi, on 14 March 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

I agree most of what you are asking for would be nice.

However we do have more than just death matches, look at Assualt, Conquest and Escort modes, and to a lesser extent domination, unfortunately many people seem to prefer just simple deathmatch, so play every mode like skirmish, and are reluctant/unable to handle having something else to think about.

many times has someone moaned about the team capping on Conquest, even after that is what wins us the match.

a single Light Mech capping the enemy base on assualt can be very effective, precisely because the enemy tend not to position anyone to be able to quickly respond to a cap, then panic and send a lance to chase off a single Light Mech. having the cap point opens up some great options for variaty rather than just deathmatch.


I have even seen people on Domination ignore the objective, flank, wipe out 11 Mechs without losing anyone and loose the match because they forgot/ignored that they were playing Domination.


Davion are an Inner Sphere faction, not a Clan, so there is no such thing as a Clan Davion emblem

You clearly were not around for CW early on. If you were you would understand "the Clan Davion" .... scrub.

[exiledangel]

did russ Actually post on the forums

[MrMagoo421]

So you put a fork in the one sign of real progress I've seen in the game since I started over a year ago. Sad. In Feb I was excited for the impending release. When we had a release date I was ecstatic and started hyping up the casuals in our crew to come back and play again with the new fun. Now I find out that it may has well have been a troll job the last few months.

So I am left looking a liar to the friends I was trying to sell your product to. Sorry. Last time I make that mistake.

[MookieDog]

Thanks PGI for listening to your player base. With some tweaking the skill system can work. I look forward to the next play test.

[justcallme A S H]

VANHELSKIN, on 13 March 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

HEAPS OF US HAVE BEEN BUYING MODULES KNOWING WE WOULD GET C-BILLS BACK BECAUSE OF SPEEDING UP DROPS NOT HAVING TO GO THROUGH MECHS TO FIND MODULES IF THEY GO BACK ON THAT GOODBYE ME CAUSE YOU ******* LIED AND I WASTED 60 MILLION C-BILLS WHICH EQUALS 100S OF HOURS GRINDING

I spent 60 mill too on modules lately, more infact.. But I made it back in about 30-35hrs. Not 100s. Ease up.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 14 March 2017 - 07:48 PM.

[Koniks]

PraetorGix, on 14 March 2017 - 05:25 AM, said:

You forgot they don't want to click, in a game about shooting with the mouse.

The clicks in a drop are by a player's choice and are done with purpose which provides a satisfying experience. The clicks in the skill tree are forced, tedious, and inefficient which creates a user experience that feels like wasted time and effort compared to a more streamlined design.

As clicks go, they are apples and oranges.