236 replies to this topic

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Deathlike, on 14 March 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

What if I told you the steak was...

Hey, I never said we were accounting for taste, and I'd rather have it "Raw, and WIGGLING!" then not at all. also I felt it was medium rare, the perfect steak.

[Deathlike]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 03:08 PM, said:

Hey, I never said we were accounting for taste, and I'd rather have it "Raw, and WIGGLING!" then not at all. also I felt it was medium rare, the perfect steak.

I don't want food poisoning or whatnot in my body. I'm not really finicky with my food, but I'm pretty sure "not raw" is pretty good standard.

[oldradagast]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 03:08 PM, said:

Hey, I never said we were accounting for taste, and I'd rather have it "Raw, and WIGGLING!" then not at all. also I felt it was medium rare, the perfect steak.

I'm having more fun imaging what Gordon Ramsey would have to say about PGI's skill maze! And you think the forum was harsh on it? Hehe...

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Deathlike, on 14 March 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

I don't want food poisoning or whatnot in my body. I'm not really finicky with my food, but I'm pretty sure "not raw" is pretty good standard.

Fair enough, and I will agree, the tree DOES need more time, I'm just worried PGI will go the usual route and just cancel it like they have every other balance measure.

I'm still kinda tweaked about Info War really... like how hard is it to iterate a version of Radar that works like we had in EVERY OTHER MECHWARRIOR?!

Hell, even MWLL pulled active/passive radar off.

[Accused]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

Fair enough, and I will agree, the tree DOES need more time, I'm just worried PGI will go the usual route and just cancel it like they have every other balance measure.

Yeah, me too. It's like they say "**** it, screw these guys, cancel all the things!" when instead they should be putting out another public test with the feedback people gave them. Good concept, horrible implementation. Let's work together on the implementation for once.

[Deathlike]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

Fair enough, and I will agree, the tree DOES need more time, I'm just worried PGI will go the usual route and just cancel it like they have every other balance measure.

I'm still kinda tweaked about Info War really... like how hard is it to iterate a version of Radar that works like we had in EVERY OTHER MECHWARRIOR?!

Hell, even MWLL pulled active/passive radar off.

The thing is that PGI is just bad at refining things. It's either not done or not truly iterative.

Sometimes the execution of what PGI does is more akin to the Emporer's New Clothes.

Just because things are designed and described the way PGI does it, it doesn't mean it's true or accurate.

When your "primary goals" in your own words are not really fulfilled, then why are you trying to get what you've got out the door ASAP? That doesn't even make sense to anyone who bothered looking into things.

Like all the whining, people did call PGI/Russ out (aka, he's not wearing clothes). It shouldn't have to be like that, but when you have some yes-men and White Knights just wanting it out, regardless of the reasons (equivalent to all the King's advisors not saying anything because they'd thought it would be "foolish" to do so), then if PGI/Russ wants to embarrass themselves... then what am I to say or do at that point?

Not all whales are going to keep shelling out money if they believe they are wasting their time with the game. That is very fundamental to understand.

[Alan Davion]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

Fair enough, and I will agree, the tree DOES need more time, I'm just worried PGI will go the usual route and just cancel it like they have every other balance measure.

The skill trees do need more time to bake. Especially since there should be skills to account for the new tech items, particularly stuff like RACs since they'll have a "charge up" time like Gauss has, and then take even longer to cool down before you can fire them again. There should be skills to account for that.

Then you've got stuff like Stealth Armor and Laser AMS, there should be skills related to those as well.

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

I'm still kinda tweaked about Info War really... like how hard is it to iterate a version of Radar that works like we had in EVERY OTHER MECHWARRIOR?!

Hell, even MWLL pulled active/passive radar off.

Actually MW2/GBL/Mercs didn't have Active/Passive Radar, all you could do in those games was change how far out your radar reached. I think the range was something like 250 meters, 500 meters, 1 kilometer and 2 kilometers.

Active/Passive radar I'm pretty sure was introduced in MW3 and continued on into Pirate's Moon, MW4/Black Knight/Mercs.

You're right though, we should have active/passive radar in MWO, but the question is PGI capable of coding that kind of mechanic? Especially since it ties back into Info War.

If PGI had tested Info War in a more focused and sensible manner, instead of taking it in a 55 gallon drum of crap and throwing it against the wall to see what sticks, we might have had an actual functioning Info War system by now.

They tried to do too much all at once and they quite literally f***ed it up so badly there was no hope of fixing it.

Edited by Alan Davion, 14 March 2017 - 03:33 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

I don't regret destroying a feature that was going to cost me hundreds of millions of c-bills. Nope, not one bit.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Deathlike, on 14 March 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

The thing is that PGI is just bad at refining things. It's either not done or not truly iterative.

Sometimes the execution of what PGI does is more akin to the Emporer's New Clothes.

Just because things are designed and described the way PGI does it, it doesn't mean it's true or accurate.

When your "primary goals" in your own words are not really fulfilled, then why are you trying to get what you've got out the door ASAP? That doesn't even make sense to anyone who bothered looking into things.

Like all the whining, people did call PGI/Russ out (aka, he's not wearing clothes). It shouldn't have to be like that, but when you have some yes-men and White Knights just wanting it out, regardless of the reasons (equivalent to all the King's advisors not saying anything because they'd thought it would be "foolish" to do so), then if PGI/Russ wants to embarrass themselves... then what am I to say or do at that point?

Not all whales are going to keep shelling out money if they believe they are wasting their time with the game. That is very fundamental to understand.

And you're right, I'll be the first to admit, alot of my replies in this thread were overblown due to being overtired and frustrated yesterday.

hell you can hear it in my voice in the video I made.

At the end of the day, yeah, this needs more iteration, I just really, really hope it get's it, instead of again, being axed like every other system has been. And I think that's what's most frustrating to me, as I told a friend before bed last night: Sure, the system wasn't perfect, but I'm frustrated because PGI keeps spending time and resources on these things, and we get no real "content" in the meanatime... then, they push back release or cancel it, and the game continues to stagnate...

My frustration has lead me to the opinion that, at least if they released this undercooked abomination, while yes we could yell at them for screwing it up, at the very least it doesn't feel like they're doing absolutely nothing.

And here we are again, another big rework, pushed back or canceled, and a bunch of work that could have been dedicated to actual content, going nowhere. At the same time that they're releasing a BIG MECHPACK yet again.

seriously.

Edited by CMDR Sunset Shimmer, 14 March 2017 - 03:38 PM.

[Mystere]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 12:05 AM, said:

The fact that you and yours, threw such a goddamned fit at the change, shows how afraid of it you are.

I was not going to comment, especially because I was neither in favor nor against, but the extremely salty vitriol you are spewing at others just because you did not get what you wanted made me change my mind.

You could have gone kosher instead.

Edited by Mystere, 14 March 2017 - 03:50 PM.

[Bud Crue]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 03:00 PM, said:

Let me give you an example:

Here's a Big Mac, enjoy this big mac, but you can only eat a big mac any time you're hungry.

Oh look, here's some amazing Steak, you like this steak, give it a try, yeah you like that right?

No, the steak is not ready now, the steak has been delayed, go back to eating your big mac and be happy about it.


This, is how I feel.

I felt the same way with CW Phase 3. Then again with the bucket fix of 4.0.
Then again in June when they nerfed my Quickdraws.
Then again in July when they nerfed them again.
Then when they told me they were nerfing them again with the skills tree.

I'm still here. I still enjoy the game. I just won't trust them with my entertainment dollars again.
Deep breath, you still like the game. You've just been burned by PGI...just like everyone playing.

[Insidious Johnson]

Lol, the script never changes. Somewhere, deep inside the PGI think tank, a vacuum exists. Something promised not delivered. Excuses offered. Public opinion or outcries cited. Knights both black and white assail the bulwarks. All parties involved congratulate themselves on a critical victory. The game still has just a few maps in rotation. No player created anything. We are forced into a spectator role when before we made leagues, maps, mechs, weapons, and for the most part stuck to lore while recruiting new players. The stewardship of the franchise rests solely with the highest and laziest bidder while your units dwindle or die. How can anyone say the are surprised?

[Deathlike]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

And you're right, I'll be the first to admit, alot of my replies in this thread were overblown due to being overtired and frustrated yesterday.

hell you can hear it in my voice in the video I made.

At the end of the day, yeah, this needs more iteration, I just really, really hope it get's it, instead of again, being axed like every other system has been. And I think that's what's most frustrating to me, as I told a friend before bed last night: Sure, the system wasn't perfect, but I'm frustrated because PGI keeps spending time and resources on these things, and we get no real "content" in the meanatime... then, they push back release or cancel it, and the game continues to stagnate...

My frustration has lead me to the opinion that, at least if they released this undercooked abomination, while yes we could yell at them for screwing it up, at the very least it doesn't feel like they're doing absolutely nothing.

And here we are again, another big rework, pushed back or canceled, and a bunch of work that could have been dedicated to actual content, going nowhere. At the same time that they're releasing a BIG MECHPACK yet again.

seriously.

You have to remember, PGI was trying to do too many thing at once.

There was the health "requirkening" for equipment and weapons. That probably didn't get much interesting testing, especially in the first PTS (since it was downright broken)

There's the obvious skill tree. That's a separate discussion in itself.

Then there's the "engine adjustments", where there were obvious elements broken and had to have another PTS adjustment during the 2nd PTS (for whatever reason wasn't immediate) and I'm sure there's still some lingering errors there too.

If things were done iteratively, then it would be that much easier to address problems.

Even back in the "Infowar" PTS, the only real hurdle was "Ghost/Laser Lock" for most people, while the other aspects of it were OK, but still flawed. For instance, roles for mechs having their InfoWar applied was kinda chaotic and random (it wasn't properly specified or defined by PGI) which didn't entirely help its case. Then again, it had to be all buried only because one aspect (Ghost/Laser Lock) was the breaking point (lasers don't need nerfing at all, it would just facilitate the PPC-Gauss meta further).

It's one of those things where execution and decision making go hand in hand with the kinds of things PGI has been testing, but not ever properly refining (let's not talk about Ghost Heat v2 or Energy Draw, due to seriously haphazard testing and methodology or lack thereof).

[Alan Davion]

Insidious Johnson, on 14 March 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

highest and laziest bidder

More like lowest and laziest bidder.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Mystere, on 14 March 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

I was not going to comment, especially because I was neither in favor nor against, but the extremely salty vitriol you are spewing at others just because you did not get what you wanted made me change your mind.

You could have gone kosher instead.

again, I may not have had the proper mental resources, and knee jerked a reaction to all this.

am I still frustrated, hell yes, am I still pissed, yeah... but ultimately, it's yet another situation in a long line of fuckup's by PGI.

I shouldn't have spit the kind of vitrol I did at people, and for that, i apologize, I understand that at the end of the day the decision is on PGI. I do however, still feel that the tree would have been better than sitting on the still stagnant tree we've had for 5 years.

but clearly, I'm the minority in that apparently. I'm just tired of no progress at all guys, this was the closest thing to "Content" we would have gotten... and now, it's just more of the same "buy a mechpack."

[Quicksilver Aberration]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

but clearly, I'm the minority in that apparently. I'm just tired of no progress at all guys, this was the closest thing to "Content" we would have gotten... and now, it's just more of the same "buy a mechpack."

You aren't in the minority for wanting progress, what you are in the minority apparently for is wanting change for the sake of change (which isn't necessarily progress). There is a difference here and that is really where the disagreement lies.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 14 March 2017 - 04:01 PM.

[Linkin]

" I'm just tired of no progress at all guys, this was the closest thing to "Content" we would have gotten... and now, it's just more of the same "buy a mechpack." "

I'm glad this thread turned around. I think you hit the nail on the head here CMDR, the fact that the skill tree is the closest thing we have seen approaching "content", shows the severe lack of any real development by PGI. One of many examples... but anyways, I am one of those glad it was delayed, however I strongly want the skill tree to come out still, so I hope it is in manner we are all (or as many as possible) happy with.

Edit- stupid quote button broke...

Edited by Linkin, 14 March 2017 - 04:04 PM.

[bar10jim]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 12:21 AM, said:

Maybe for the Pokemech collector sure... but for the average player... we already bought 3, mastered what we needed, and sold off what we didn't want anyway! That was one of the biggest issues with the old system, we were forced to buy entire mechs we didn't want.

Of course the Pokemech collector with 150+ mechs has also spent lots of real money on things like mechbays and mech packs. Something the player with 12 mechs that they focus on probably haven't done. There's money to made by PGI from Pokemech players.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

bar10jim, on 14 March 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

Of course the Pokemech collector with 150+ mechs has also spent lots of real money on things like mechbays and mech packs. Something the player with 12 mechs that they focus on probably haven't done. There's money to made by PGI from Pokemech players.

*points to my golden shield, and 2.5k dropped on this game*

Yeah, we do spend a lot.

[Suko]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 13 March 2017 - 11:58 PM, said:

It wasn't going to be a saving grace, it would have most likely created a mass playerbase loss from the game due to loss of progression of owned mechs (most people do not want to re-grind their mechs)

If I had a nickle for every time I've heard something like "X will cause players to leave the game", I'd be a rich SOB. Let's be realistic; Anyone fickle enough to leave this game over something like this already has (or is now merely a forum-warrior and not an actual player). Personally, I've been playing the "same game" for 5+ years now with extremely few changes to show for itself. I'm good and ready to see some changes, even if they aren't immediately for the better. I've been playing this game longer than all but a handful of players and I can tell you that this game NEEDS something new. New maps, new game modes...I'll take any new content that isn't a mechpack!

Edited by Suko, 14 March 2017 - 04:14 PM.