676 replies to this topic

[Corviness]

Nice upgrade, pgi!
Don't understand those IS-guys, who think clanners will bitching. Probably, all time IS guys crying, thats why clans get nerfed since they are implemented.
Now PGI can delete all dequirks on clanside, like on heatmanagement, weaponrange, etc., because IS don't need it anymore.
If you don't you will have the same problem since claninvasion, but now on IS side, who must get nerfed, instead of clan.

[Female Body Inspector]

Ever since the blunder of adding the Clans into the game without proper balancing through closed testing, it's been one IS Buff followed by 2 Clan nerfs ever since so I'm waiting to see how badly the Clans get hit again...

If PGI is going to do this right then they need to remove all quirks period and start from scratch, not just the weapon quirks. They also need to make the new skill tree even across both factions (no extra increase for the IS like it was in PTS) till a proper baseline can be created. Then balance from there.

The engine alone without any quirks or skill tree buffs would drastically shift balance towards equality never mind all the extra weapons and equipment. The fact that the biggest contributor to the imbalance that was the Clan Invasion, the TComp (besides the XL ofc), is no longer faction specific, I'd say that my above statement is perfectly valid.

Wipe all quirks for both IS and Clan, give both sides same structure and armour baselines, make skill tree equal and test from there with all the new tech for both sides. Then don't do a massive quirk wave like you have been doing (glares at PGI), instead increase in small increments till a balance that is as close to perfect that can be achieved has been achieved.

Edited by Female Body Inspector, 15 March 2017 - 04:25 AM.

[Nimnul]

Arkaiko, on 15 March 2017 - 03:47 AM, said:

Finally appears a patch (which has not yet come out) that gives the IS the same weapons of the clans, and are you crying because the clans "need" more?

pffff... cmon, at least the IS wait to be powned in CW to ask nerfs

I would not be happy in your place. I see a imbalance. No one claner will play. And you will suffer too.

Edited by Nimnul, 15 March 2017 - 04:47 AM.

[Slambot]

I can't understand all the clan tears. Clan equipment will still be lighter, smaller, have longer range and in most cases, hit harder than any inner sphere weapons. The meta is currently clan across the board and will likely remain so. The best several mechs in each weight class are all clan. The KDK 3 is by far the most powerful mech in the game and will remain so. All that will happen is that IS mechs will have a variety of options that will make them a bit more dangerous. Sure, the advantages are small in each system, but when you add up a variety of small advantages all rolled into one chasis, the difference adds up.

Don't complain about IS light engines. It will help designs, most notably atlases and stalkers. Lights...maybe. Clan XLs will still be MUCH better than an IS light engine. (half weight for XL vs 75% standard weight for light engines) MRMs are low damage and have to be fired in HUGE salvos to do much of anything and are in no way precision weapons. Light gauss has the same tonnage and crit spaces as clan gauss but does just over half the damage of the clan weapon. As you can see, the clan weapons and other systems are ALL better than anything the IS has or will have. What the IS will have is a variety of weaponry that can be dangerous. Clans will probably find that heavy lasers are hot but hit like trucks and that the ATM system is going to be VERY lethal.

I play both sides and generally find clan mechs to be superior to anything the IS fields except for a few hyper quirked IS mechs that can hold their own.

[Meldric Ward]

ALL MechWarrior Games had the exact same problem...
And PGI fails to solve it as miserably as all of them.
In the end it is all just equal. And that is an epic fail!

It should be 10 Clan-Mechs against 12 IS-Mechs! Special bonuses for a clanner to obey Zellbrigen ingame and you are done!

Finally, when the smoke has cleared, the Tech-Barrier will fall with PGI saying "in 3060 all IS units can have Clantech!" and there you go, we all will just drive the Mechs that run the best Meta at the time. I wrote that in this very forum 2 years ago. Then this game will finally cut all connections that it ever had with BattleTech but the names of the Mechs and weapons. That is the latest point in time where you are better off playing Counterstrike.

Just wait and see!

And, before you start: We made tests to run 10vs12 with Stock Mechs. The tonnage-relation to make it work (and great fun) is 1.4, just in case you want to try. We ran a campaign in this mode and it felt finally like it should (both sides)!

Edited by Meldric Ward, 15 March 2017 - 05:09 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

S0ulReapr, on 14 March 2017 - 10:26 PM, said:

Ah, but you will get more toys than the Clanners soon and Clans aren't even going to get HAGs.

"You"?

Do you see a loyalist icon anywhere near my name?

I get to play with everything that's in the game.

[Athom83]

Nimnul, on 14 March 2017 - 12:11 PM, said:

I will not buy anything until the clans add as many weapons! This is not fair. I love clans.

Its not like the Clan already had LB-X and UAC versions of every AC size or the equivalent of the IS Heavy PPC. And its not like the Clan are getting those Heavy Lasers for a mass damage vomit of lazor. Oh wait.

[Joshua McEvedy]

Well, since the timeline is advancing to the 3062-3067 FedCom Civil War era, I hope that PGI understands that there have been some significant changes in the various Factions during that time frame. The Smoke Jaguars are no more, having been annihilated during Operations Serpent and Bulldog, and the Wolves are split between the Warden (Phelan) and Crusader (Vlad) factions. The 2nd Star League has been created and Great Refusal has happened on Strana Mechty, more or less ending the Clan invasion for the foreseeable future. The Nova Cats have also been abjured and have moved to the Draconis Combine, and the Ghost Bears have secretly left Clan space altogether, immigrating to their Rasalhague Kurita holdings and thus creating the Ghost Bear Dominion in 3060.

In the Inner Sphere, Operation Guerrero had occurred in 3057, with the Free Worlds League and the Capellan Confederation retaking a number of worlds previously captured by House Davion, and thereby precipitating the FedCom civil war, which started in 3062. And the Word of Blake had emerged and was beginning to square off in the shadows against Comstar.

Consequently, the technology changes in the game should be accompanied by changes in the overall lore context to make better sense of it all. Otherwise, we're all just going to be stuck in 3052 and merely using weapons from the future.

[Joshua McEvedy]

Januph, on 14 March 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

Hey somewhat even out the new tech how about a new clan only consumable..........

Elemental star, 5 elementals at say equal to 1 eighth/tenth of a urbie.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[AngrySpartan]

Joshua McEvedy, on 15 March 2017 - 05:31 AM, said:

Well, since the timeline is advancing to the 3062-3067 FedCom Civil War era, I hope that PGI understands that there have been some significant changes in the various Factions during that time frame. The Smoke Jaguars are no more, having been annihilated during Operations Serpent and Bulldog, and the Wolves are split between the Warden (Phelan) and Crusader (Vlad) factions. The 2nd Star League has been created and Great Refusal has happened on Strana Mechty, more or less ending the Clan invasion for the foreseeable future. The Nova Cats have also been abjured and have moved to the Draconis Combine, and the Ghost Bears have secretly left Clan space altogether, immigrating to their Rasalhague Kurita holdings and thus creating the Ghost Bear Dominion in 3060.

In the Inner Sphere, Operation Guerrero had occurred in 3057, with the Free Worlds League and the Capellan Confederation retaking a number of worlds previously captured by House Davion, and thereby precipitating the FedCom civil war, which started in 3062. And the Word of Blake had emerged and was beginning to square off in the shadows against Comstar.

Consequently, the technology changes in the game should be accompanied by changes in the overall lore context to make better sense of it all. Otherwise, we're all just going to be stuck in 3052 and merely using weapons from the future.

You do understand that "PGI" and "BT lore" can not coexist in the same universe, don't you?

[Sevronis]

Naglinator, on 14 March 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

Glad there is no IS bias in this... oh wait....

Bias? Blame the lore and original tabletop documents. The IS finally managed to narrow the tech gap by this time while the Clans only introduced a small amount of new tech.

Also.. no X-Pulse lasers for IS? They were introduced in the late 3050s.

Edited by Sevronis, 15 March 2017 - 06:43 AM.

[Sixpack]

Schrollski, on 14 March 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

Trying to rise above the sea of biased bullsh*t. So, which clan will replace Clan Smoke Jaguar?

None, the corridor ceases to exist.

Only real clan left in the IS area are the Falcons at this point in time.

Incidently should CSJ disappear I might as well not bother with the game anymore I guess.

Edited by Sixpack, 15 March 2017 - 06:39 AM.

[Edward Hazen]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 March 2017 - 05:10 AM, said:

"You"?

Do you see a loyalist icon anywhere near my name?

I get to play with everything that's in the game.

My mistake, your comments made you sound like an IS balance whiner.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Slambot, on 15 March 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

The KDK 3 is by far the most powerful mech in the game and will remain so.

I don't disagree with the majority of your statement, however I'm calling it right now...

The Annihilator will dethrone the Kodiak as the biggest baddest Assault. Sure it won't be as fast, but the 2A will be putting to shame even the MAL-90X and the KDK-3 in terms of ridiculous ballistic boating. It will be the only chassis capable of carrying five Rotary-5s (even six if you feel like making it a troll build), it will be the only chassis able to carry four Rotary 5's and still be able to carry a Light Engine, It will be the only chassis capable of carrying four standard IS AC/10s, and it will be the only chassis capable of carrying 4 IS UAC/10s.

All that, and all that you need is just in the Standard Pack.

Brings a tear to my eye to see my very first vehicle from my very first video game become a God~ <3
-Preordered for touching me in the childhood-

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 15 March 2017 - 07:33 AM.

[Athom83]

Tanar, on 15 March 2017 - 03:47 AM, said:

nice to see lights finally get some ballistic options other than "hmm MGs or use up 6 tons for an AC2"

LB-2X/ACs are 6 tons. They just fire 2 1 damage pellets at a longer range (farther range than gauss). Medium range for these things equate to long range for AC/2s. However, you get less ammo per ton than standard AC/2s (45 instead of 75).

[Weepy Wanebow]

Actually I think the IS and Clan having all the same things at its core will help balance. The data set of same named items will be larger and there will be a larger body of information to use when determinng how unique things should behave. I mean dont get me wrong, it is PGI and I expect the release to be a crazy, wild west, crap show....but with the core data set expanding, a balance pass should 1. Be easier, and 2. Actually show that past nerfs to clans heat is not necessary for over all balance (at least not after the release).

The majority of things aren't going to change the game that much, LPPC, HPPC, SNPPC really aren't going to do so much as to upset game balance. LPPC and HPPC still have minimal range and LPPC does crap damage while HPPC has monster heat with fairly poor range. SNPPC is standard PPC heat and damage but poor range with no minimum range which basically reserves it for knife fighting and brawling....

LGR have greater range then a standard Gauss but it does half damage and the weight savings isn't enough to justify over an UAC/5 which has only slightly less range but better DPS even with the jam chance. You may see a resurgance of things like hunchback grid irons or shadow hawks with LGR but not for long before people realize that its an inferior choice in 80% of cases. HRG hit like a truck but are super heavy, take up an entire component and can only be mounted in a torso if the mech is sporting a standard engine, it also happens to weight 20 tons.....and its range is pretty dirt for a weapon with a charge function to fire. Its unclear if it is going to do solid damage at all ranges in MWO yet, but in TT it has deminished damage at range...maybe PGI will split the difference?

MRMs are deadfire. They are the only true deadfire missle system in the game. I expect that they will be nearly useless at optimal range except in that rare situation you get a drop on someone unaware and standing still or in the more common case that you are right up in someone's face. Dead fire means that the target moving at even a decent pace is likely to result in at least 1/2 the missiles missing at the MRM optimal range. And thats only if they aren't stream fire. If they are stream fire...DOA

Rocket launchers, yeah I can't see a situation in which they're are worth taking. They are there because they determine that light ACs were out for some reason and a bunch of "lore heads" who dont remember things accurately or never really got that into lore or TT wanted them. There isnt a "new weapon" thread out there in which a bunch of uninformed people demand rocket launchers....well I hope they take them so that I can face them in game and make them regret taking them over armor, heatsinks, or ammo.....because after that missed one shot I'm taking advantage of your lighter armor....

Stealth armor only works on mechs with ECM which the IS doesnt have a lot of and it takes up 12 slots which a lot of IS mechs can't afford in exchange for weapon space, ammo space, endo-steel space, or heatsink space. Being invisible on sensors is pretty crazy good for a few lights and a few mediums but over all its gonna be "meh". I mean definitely a few "ghost snipers" but not a lot because of whats available and how the mech or IS stuff works in general.

LFE is gonna be good for IS but because it isn't as light as an XL, it still isn't the obvious choice in all situations. If anything it makes engine choice more important for IS and means that the STD engine may actually see a slight increase in use. (Death, heat spike, or tank) may see rise to "Tank" being more favorable in certain mechs...it also means some XL using mechs will opt for LFE which means less damage or slower but more survivability.

Micro lasers for clans might be DOA but if they have a really large ghost heat threshold, you may see the rise of clan light knife fighters instead of it being only a small handful of lights currently. It depends on how they opporate.

Heavy lasers...so I dont see the Heavy Large being used that much by experienced players to be honest although one can never be sure what drives people to make the choices they make. Outside of the fact that it weighs 2 additional tons, the cERPPC is superpeior in nearly every way and within the effective range of the HLL there are better options both heat and tonnage wise, including the cERPPC. Now the HML and HSL have merit and again, I think we are probably gonna see the potential rise of clan knife fighters as a viable option. If anything you will see a few of them here and there to add extra punch to brawl range and deter IS brawl meta. But clan laser vomit, alpha, pin point is already crazy so it isnt like this changes that.

ATM are gonna be a solid option for clanners, the variable damage irks a few people but its not a bad approach in reality. (Although lack of ammo swap still confounds me because it is such a common option in nearly any shooter). Regardless, the ability to be an all purpose missle boat is something that doesnt exist in the game currently and is a nice addition to the game, which with a few exceptions, I don't think will be game breaking. That extra super boost of damage in knife fighting range also lends to the potential of the rise of clan knife fighters while giving them at least some mid to long range options because of the nature of the weapons themselves, but while still focusing on that knife fighter range weapon load out over all. Also the missle boat warhawk will see a resurgence and it will be annoying at all ranges but its ok lol.

Now, the one weapon I see being a real potential for game breaking imbalance is the IS RAC/2 and RAC/5. I mean they weigh a lot, not overly impressive range, and tear through ammo but they are heat efficient for what they do and they can rain holy hell on an enemy. It sounds like they are gonna have a charge mechanic (spin up before fire) and an extended cool down (spin down) between shots, coupled with the fact that they can jam it may not be as terrible or game breaking as people predict. If they over tweak the jam chance and make the spin up and spin down too long they may not be ideal compared to other options although having one equipped mech in a lance with the opportunity to be ignored could really let it open up and chew all the enemy ***...regardless? Maybe?

But the fact of the matter is that having that larger core set allows other unique things to have a better context for their function. All things have certain stats set in stone such as damage for weapons. PGI has shown they are willing to mess around with range a bit (although they keep the theme of clan range superiority), mess around with heat a bit (up and down), and mess with burn time/jam chance/spread a good bit. But the real things they do for balance seem to be ghost heat thresholds and the way certain weapons fire (I'm looking at you cLRMs and cUACs). Clans get hit really hard with heat while in lore they are known for running cooler then IS mechs. I get why PGI went the other way in MWO. However, with a more complete core data set I think we will see an eventual roll back, at least partially, on clan heat nerf. I also hope they dont return clan weapons to their original range, especially of they reduce clan heat penalties and improve clan weapon ghost heat thresholds. I also suspect that we may see a change in the way cUAC works, if even just a little bit...or a change to isUAC to be slightly more like clans weird stream of fire. But at release? Yeah, no...wild west, crazy, **** show

TL;DR: things probably won't be as unbalanced as people think or at least it is unlikley to create substantially more imbalance then what already exists in game. Most of the new IS options are still inferior to clan options but do add a nice diversity that can definitely assist in narrowing the weapons gap. The obviously more powerful options like RAC may not be as great as people think they will be and it depends on all the numbers involved and how it functions in game. CHLL are an inferior choice to existing options but with micro lasers, HML, HSL, and ATMs coming into play, I suspect we will see the raise of clan knife fighting meta at least to a limited degree. Regardless, with a larger selection of "identical options" finally completing the core data set balance may be easier to achieve because more similarly natured information helps in making informed choices on outlier information.

Edited by Wendigo Waltz, 15 March 2017 - 08:23 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Is the Cougar now a 20m Tall Assault ? Why has the Cougar now this little mini CenterTorso ?????...the Center from Direwolf is blasting up ,and the Cougar is Shrunk to a Mousecockpit






by the new Weapons ...intersting to seeing the Hitreg

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 15 March 2017 - 07:55 AM.

[Chuanhao]

So we went from one end straight to the other.

But still no arrow IV

Pity there wasn't the Savage Coyote as that was the launch mech for the ATM system, or the Blood Asp with the Heavy Lasers.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Cougar is Jade Falcon rework of Adder that was rework of Kit Fox. It's 35t, 86 kph with possibly 20t space.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 15 March 2017 - 08:20 AM.

[Desintegrator]

Great to see some new weapons !

But it seems that the IS will get more advantage out of it, due to the new engine and the new Ultra ACs that don't fire multiple bullets !! It will be nice to equip my Jäger with dual UltraAC20 instead of the dual AC 20s.