339 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Prosperity Park, on 15 March 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

Why should the Clan 1 slot, 4 ton laser be better than a 2 slot 5 ton laser?

It should not. It should be more punishing to use, where said punishment makes up for the fact that it is smaller and lighter.

Good thing I didn't say it should be better. I said it should be different.

[Mister Blastman]

Prosperity Park, on 15 March 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

No, this is a 12v12 game.

Based off a board game.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 15 March 2017 - 06:13 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Mister Blastman, on 15 March 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

Based off a boardgame.

Doesn't matter what it is based on, what matters is what it is. A 12v12 game where players on both sides are supposed to have fun and have equal chances of winning.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 15 March 2017 - 06:14 PM.

[FupDup]

Mister Blastman, on 15 March 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

Based off a board game.

A board game that was really, really badly balanced.

[Snowbluff]

I like it how people are arguing between two terrible weapons when both could use a buff.

[Kanil]

You know Clanners, making Clan even more OP isn't good for you -- think about it. Right now you're mildly OP, and get to kill players better than you who are too dumb to play Clan.

But if we make Clan so OP that nobody plays IS, then suddenly you lose the edge you currently have.

[Y E O N N E]

XxRingWraithxX, on 15 March 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

I agree, they may not need to be. Clan ER Large does for sure though.

I don't necessarily disagree. I'm currently working on a set of balance tables including all of the new tech that was announced and it accommodates a fix for both ERLL. Hope to have it done by the weekend, but ballistics are an utter BEAR with so many variables and I don't expect missiles to be much easier.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I wonder how many of you Balancing geniuses have considered the radical notion that longer beam durations and higher heat count as making a weapon BOTH "worse" and "different" ?

[Y E O N N E]

Prosperity Park, on 15 March 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

I wonder how many of you Balancing geniuses have considered the radical notion that longer beam durations and higher heat count as making a weapon BOTH "worse" and "different" ?

All the time. Why else do you think duration is even useful as a balance variable?

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 15 March 2017 - 06:20 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Prosperity Park, on 15 March 2017 - 06:13 PM, said:

Doesn't matter what it is based on, what matters is what it is. A 12v12 game where players on both sides are supposed to have fun and have equal chances of winning.

They will, and they do. And they will even moreso when the new Inner Sphere weapons come out.

I guess you're overlooking the geometry of Clan robits vs. IS robits. If you hadn't, you'd clearly understand that many IS robits can shield with their arms while the Clam 'mechs are wide open, ripe for the picking.

And don't you dare pull out the KDK-3. That robit is a freak. It doesn't count. Grandpa Frankenmech threw it together in his shady castletop lab.


Oh, and don't get me started on fun. If this game was about fun, then the matchmaker would be fixed and continual steamrolls would be a thing of the past.

But they aren't.

This game is about torture.

[El Bandito]

SilentWolff, on 15 March 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

The clan ERLL is an absolute joke, Its unusable as is for anything other than for teh lulz.

Disagree. There are several CERLL builds that are viable to use, especially in CW.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 March 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

All the time. Why else do you think duration is even useful as a balance variable?

Because the folks in this thread think the 1 slot 4 ton laser should not be worse than the 2 slot 5 ton laser.

To make them balanced owing to the weight and size disparity you have to Nerf the heck out of the clan weapon. Jensen, why it needs a longer beam duration than the IS laser.

The OP for this thread said they should be the same, then some genius used a computer analogy to say why ClanTech should be outright better than IS tech. In a 12v12 game.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 15 March 2017 - 06:27 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

I recall a PTS where, among other things, they reduced the burn duration of the C-ERLLas in conjunction with a 1 point damage reduction to the laser. Feedback from players was overwhelmingly positive regarding it.

See, Clan pilots don't necessarily want more power. We just want toys that feel good to play with.

[SilentWolff]

Prosperity Park, on 15 March 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

Why should the Clan 1 slot, 4 ton laser be better than a 2 slot 5 ton laser?


It should not. It should be more punishing to use, where said punishment makes up for the fact that it is smaller and lighter.

You fail to understand the mechanics of the Battletech universe. The reason the weapon is smaller, is because Clan tech is inherently superior. Newer technology, less tonnage and slots. Its the same for everything Clan vs IS, Clan is ALWAYS superior. Less tonnage, fewer crit slots, more damage, superior range.

Edited by SilentWolff, 15 March 2017 - 06:27 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

SilentWolff, on 15 March 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

You fail to understand the mechanics of the Battletech universe. The reason the weapon is smaller, is because Clan tech is inherently superior. Newer technology, less tonnage and slots. Its the same for everything Clan vs IS, Clan is ALWAYS superior. Less tonnage, less range, more damage, superior range.

12v12 game.

12v12.

Not 8v12. Unless your goal is to make clans more fun to place so everybody Plays Clans. Then the Matchmaker will freeze because there will be no IS pilots for you to mop the floor with.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 15 March 2017 - 06:29 PM.

[SilentWolff]

Prosperity Park, on 15 March 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

12v12 game.

12v12.

Not 8v12.

Umm that has nothing to do with anything. The game has a foundation its built on. Your opinion is irrelevant. ( in this instance anyway)

Edited by SilentWolff, 15 March 2017 - 06:30 PM.

[FupDup]

Prosperity Park, on 15 March 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

I wonder how many of you Balancing geniuses have considered the radical notion that longer beam durations and higher heat count as making a weapon BOTH "worse" and "different" ?

There are also damage and range differences, so it's not just a pure upgrade or downgrade.

Stop trying to make both factions feel the same but one faction just being weaker.

[Felicitatem Parco]

SilentWolff, on 15 March 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

Umm that has nothing to do with anything. The game has a foundation its built on. Your opinion is irrelevant.

The fact that this is a 12v12 game Trumps all your wishes for Clans to be OP.

[Deathlike]

I feel like this would sound like heresy, but PPCs+Gauss is still the prime mainstay of the current long range meta. While not quite extreme range (Gauss max range nerf hurts, ERPPC velocity blows at super long range), the only thing most consistent for long range is quirked IS ERLL on some mechs.

CERLL is way more niche than it should be due in part of fear of being able to stack them efficiently (you can't stack ISLL/ISERLL on the head of mechs either) and the firepower (it was kind of its own meta out of the gate, until Ghost heat was involved).

In decks, even having 1 IS ERLL mech is viable enough for suppression in comp play (with every other significantly relevant mech - generally Clan mechs like the KDK-3 with PPCs+Gauss)... ZERO consideration is applied for CERLL.

Edited by Deathlike, 15 March 2017 - 06:32 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Prosperity Park, on 15 March 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

The fact that this is a 12v12 game Trumps all your wishes for Clans to be OP.

If you want perfect balance, play Team Fortress 2. Otherwise, you're stuck playing Battletech. Clan versus Inner Sphere. Kerensky's vision! Superior technology, trueborn perfection!

Edited by Mister Blastman, 15 March 2017 - 06:35 PM.