339 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Monkey Lover, on 16 March 2017 - 12:04 AM, said:

lol a wash.... it has 18% more damage and has about 18% more duration.

What i call a ghost heat wash is the 1 slot, more range and less weight,

Funny how the clanners always want more and the IS pilots just want balance haha

That's been the case since TT. Clans attract a certain kind of player - the kind who literally don't want balance, they want a game as broken in their favor as a single player game is but have actual people to play against who are compelled to show up. Then they complain when nobody wants to play against them, saying 'but that's just how the game is'.

Some people want challenging environments that involve skill vs skill being the deciding factor. Some people want the pretext of that, but slanted strongly in their favor, so they can pretend they have skills that they lack the will, effort or competency to actually acquire for themselves. One thing you'll never see is a top tier player asking for lore balance. They have too much self respect.

[SmoothCriminal]

Assuming that duration of Clan ERLLs and Heavy LLs will be the same, very much no the duration needs to stay as it is.

[Mister Blastman]

MischiefSC, on 16 March 2017 - 12:03 AM, said:

/anger

I'm not interested in arguing balance or anything, really. I'm stating my opinion, and that is Clan tech should be superior because the lore says it should. It's not my problem to solve, but the developers should respect it as such, same as past Mechwarrior games have, and get creative and find another way around the problem, if it is a problem, which it isn't... once the new weapons hit.

Kaeb Odellas, on 15 March 2017 - 11:47 PM, said:

That's all well and good, but this is a 12 on 12 competitive shooter. It's not designed to support unbalanced techbases. Faciton Warfare is designed around balanced teams. Quick play relies on balanced teams.

Battletech lore has never made a lick of sense and is straight up bad in many places. Let's not treat it like some sacred inviolable religious text when it was heavily flawed to begin with.

Lore is lore. Once it is written, it is set in stone, or the universe it describes means nothing.

Xetelian, on 15 March 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

You are waaaay overstating the inclusion of lore in a big stompy robit team death match.

See other replies.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 16 March 2017 - 06:54 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Still plenty of laser boats out there so I think the duration needs extended.

[Mcgral18]

I R O N, on 15 March 2017 - 10:52 PM, said:

I have abandoned all hope of ever reasoning with any of you. If you use SRMs you are a noob that is all...

Oh, no!

It's the ERLL Scrubs
Man, they need get git gud

[Coolant]

i think large lasers are in a good spot duration wise. However, I wish they would just do it the way MW4 worked and lasers are instantaneous. Would make lights go down a lot faster and stop the lights brawling nonsense.

[Mcgral18]

Coolant, on 16 March 2017 - 06:56 AM, said:

i think large lasers are in a good spot duration wise. However, I wish they would just do it the way MW4 worked and lasers are instantaneous. Would make lights go down a lot faster and stop the lights brawling nonsense.

This is a worse idea than the OP


It's having FLD lasers
What kind of Potato things Lights shouldn't exist?

[Mister Blastman]

Coolant, on 16 March 2017 - 06:56 AM, said:

i think large lasers are in a good spot duration wise. However, I wish they would just do it the way MW4 worked and lasers are instantaneous. Would make lights go down a lot faster and stop the lights brawling nonsense.

MechWarrior 4's lasers were bad:

Walk up to edge of ridge, acquiring red reticle.
Hit reverse.
Click fire.
Watch as own lasers fire through hill, doing full damage to enemy, while enemy return fire bounces harmlessly in the dirt.

MechWarrior 4 was bad.

[Snowhawk]

Yes, I also think it's time to reduce the Duration of the ERLLasers.

Proposal:

IS ERLL Duration: 1.20

C ERLL Duration: 1.30

[Y E O N N E]

Snowhawk, on 16 March 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

Yes, I also think it's time to reduce the Duration of the ERLLasers.

Proposal:

IS ERLL Duration: 1.20

C ERLL Duration: 1.30

Damage rate over duration is borked with that.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

I feel Clan ER Larges absolutely need to have their beam time reduced. The beam time is so slow, assault mechs have time to do a little dance and then run around a corner before it finishes. But seriously just a slight adjustment is needed for the beam time here not a lot.

The IS ER large generates too much heat IMO, I absolutely love them but the normal large laser provides too much of an advantage. It almost makes the IS ER large obsolete which is a shame.

[Darth Hotz]

SilentWolff, on 15 March 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

The game has evolved into a nascar brawl fest for the most part. Good coordinated brawl teams with fast mechs, have little issue closing the range on most maps in most open games. (not talking comp here, but I am talking about tier 1 play).

The clan ERLL is an absolute joke, Its unusable as is for anything other than for teh lulz.

Inner sphere ERLL are better, but not by much. Only mechs with duration bonuses are worth using and even then, just barely.

I remember when the duration nerf came. We can blame NGNG crying to PGI after CSJx plowed them on Crimson Straight when they were streaming.

(for a good laugh)

A few weeks later, the nerf bat came swinging. But, that was a different time and a different game. It has evolved since then. A good number of fast brawlers have been released since then and SRM's got a big buff as well.
Unfortunately, PGI is always slow to catch up to game mechanics.

So I'd like to get the conversation going on this. Should the duration be reduced and if so by how much?

My proposal:

Inner sphere ERLL current duration 1.25. Proposed duration 1.00
Clan ERLL current duration 1.5 Proposed duration 1.00

I also think durations should be normalized. You can only use 2 Clan ERLL without ghost heat, while IS ERLL can use 3. So while you get slightly better range and damage, its not enough to punish the weapon with such a long duration.

Community thoughts?

I understand. IS units change tactics and clanners don´t want to adept but stay in their comfort zone, which is 1200m away from the hotspots. To get this accomplished, they use their most fearsome weapon: Tears!

[Ultimax]

SilentWolff, on 15 March 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

No, no they are not. IS ERLL may have less range, but they have less duration and you can shoot 3 at a time which means they also do more damage overall.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind seeing some tweaks to both ERLLAS and CERLLAS, but I think your suggestions are too far and while yes you can shoot 3x ERLLAS at one time vs 2x CERLLAS, 3x ERLLAS is at best a loadout for a medium mech.

A heavy like the grasshopper needs to bring 5 of them, to justify it's place on a team.

So now the loadout and firing is more like

Fire 3 > 2 for 27 then 18 damage (total 45)

vs.

Fire 2 > 2 for 22 then 22 damage (total 44)



If we can just tweak them a touch so that CERLLAS aren't so unwieldy (I'd probably shave the burn times down for each and then increase the CD time on the Clan version more) then that's actually not that far off from where they should be considering that the IS build spent an additional NINE TONS and 6 extra Crit slots just to do 1 more point of damage over two volleys.

[LowSubmarino]

Long burn times are beyond bad.

Eternal burn times ( = cerLL) are catastrophic.

They get hard countered by no-face-time weapons like the cerppc or (to a lesser extent cause of range) gauss.

Having to stare into the enemys eyes for an eternity will get you murdered by anthing above complete noob level gameplay.

Any semi-skilled and half experienced player will ripp you to pieces with real sniper weapons.

The cerll depends on bad opposition.

Not only that....i lost count how often I mananged to kill even cheetah 6 cspls builds or locusts or jenners or spiders with 3 landed double cerppc alphas in absolute brawl situations where i am at a severe disadvantage with a ppc only build eg in a hunchback iic. But if you have practiced that long enough you can actually take out lights like that.

Try to do that with cerlls hahaha. Just try.

They suck at long range. They suck in brawls. They suck vs real sniper weapons like the ppc.

They just suck.

Too dangerous. Too useless.

The is erLL is okay. Not great compared to cerppcs (which are fantastic if linked to a TCVI or quirked to + 30 % projectile speed.

Face time is the one variable, which will cripple you beyond recognition. Specially light skirmishers or snipers cannot take any dmg whatsoever. My by far most effective sniper builds (eg the hunchback iic with 2 cerppcs) are as lethal as they are, because i dish out the full alpha with literally zero face time.

The cerll not only has face time....it forces you to stare and stare and stare.

Any good player that isnt even engaging you will notice that mech that stares at your team from over there. Theyll positon themselves and eat your for breakfast.

My hunchback wouldnt be one tenth as effective with the so called long range weapon called cerll. That weapons just sucks.

Weapons can be super heat inefficient and still be good. Even before the cerppcs got buffed, they were really really good. Ppl just didnt know and never used them.

The cerll could be twice as hot but would be infinitely better if the beam duration was reduced. ****, make them twice as hot and reduce dmg by 50 % but reduce beam time by 25 %. Voila, you got a good long range weapon.

Right now they suck and will get you killed against any half good competition.

[MechaBattler]

Well if the community hadn't wet the bed we would have had the skill tree by now and C-ERLL would be firing at around 1.35 duration. And of course IS ERLL around 1.15 duration. Thanks to the 10% duration reduction skills.

[Sjorpha]

Mister Blastman, on 16 March 2017 - 06:28 AM, said:

Lore is lore. Once it is written, it is set in stone, or the universe it describes means nothing.

Edited by Sjorpha, 16 March 2017 - 08:13 AM.

[P10k56]

I like C-Erlr on my Supernova

[XxRingWraithxX]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 March 2017 - 08:30 PM, said:

If we drop the durations on both, they both become more wieldy, but we have to do something else to stop them from running the field at all ranges. In this case, I would suggest a longer cool-down.

I don't believe there is any proof that it would run the field or be overpowered. Again, Clan ER Large lasers were never dominant or even rarely if any taken in Top tier div A competitive leagues such as RHOD, MRBC, Major League Mechwarrior or the world championships.

Had teams taken them they would have been rolled. What makes the community think it would when it never has?

[XxRingWraithxX]

SmoothCriminal, on 16 March 2017 - 03:43 AM, said:

Assuming that duration of Clan ERLLs and Heavy LLs will be the same, very much no the duration needs to stay as it is.

If the duration stays the same no one will use the weapon competitively. You will have an unused weapon for a reason.

[Y E O N N E]

XxRingWraithxX, on 16 March 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

I don't believe there is any proof that it would run the field or be overpowered. Again, Clan ER Large lasers were never dominant or even rarely if any taken in Top tier div A competitive leagues such as RHOD, MRBC, Major League Mechwarrior or the world championships.

Had teams taken them they would have been rolled. What makes the community think it would when it never has?

You haven't been paying attention to the Polar Highland matches over the last year or so, then.

The isERLL was straight-up superior to the isLL back when both were 1.00 seconds, so there's that too, and that is part of what I meant by "running the field" .