339 replies to this topic

[SilentWolff]

The game has evolved into a nascar brawl fest for the most part. Good coordinated brawl teams with fast mechs, have little issue closing the range on most maps in most open games. (not talking comp here, but I am talking about tier 1 play).

The clan ERLL is an absolute joke, Its unusable as is for anything other than for teh lulz.

Inner sphere ERLL are better, but not by much. Only mechs with duration bonuses are worth using and even then, just barely.

I remember when the duration nerf came. We can blame NGNG crying to PGI after CSJx plowed them on Crimson Straight when they were streaming.

(for a good laugh)

A few weeks later, the nerf bat came swinging. But, that was a different time and a different game. It has evolved since then. A good number of fast brawlers have been released since then and SRM's got a big buff as well.
Unfortunately, PGI is always slow to catch up to game mechanics.

So I'd like to get the conversation going on this. Should the duration be reduced and if so by how much?

My proposal:

Inner sphere ERLL current duration 1.25. Proposed duration 1.00
Clan ERLL current duration 1.5 Proposed duration 1.00

I also think durations should be normalized. You can only use 2 Clan ERLL without ghost heat, while IS ERLL can use 3. So while you get slightly better range and damage, its not enough to punish the weapon with such a long duration.

Community thoughts?

Edited by SilentWolff, 15 March 2017 - 02:01 PM.

[Mcgral18]

**** that

That would be ridiculously OP


They're usable in their current form, I use a pair on a Mad 2C (with Gauss Rifles) to arguably good results.
They are not a universal weapon, they are restricted to Extreme range. They do have acceptable Dam/tick
Higher than the Spheroid ERLL, just without quirks

Thankfully, Clams don't need quirks to have good robots and weapons.

Could they be reduced? Sure, if you reduce the damage

[Deathlike]

IS LL is mostly fine. It still gets screwed with the alternatives (CERMEDs for one).

IS ERLL and CERLL needs its duration lowered by .1s. If the CERLL needs its damage lowered as well (probably by 1), then do it.

Bam, done.

[SilentWolff]

Mcgral18, on 15 March 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

**** that

That would be ridiculously OP


They're usable in their current form, I use a pair on a Mad 2C (with Gauss Rifles) to arguably good results.
They are not a universal weapon, they are restricted to Extreme range. They do have acceptable Dam/tick
Higher than the Spheroid ERLL, just without quirks

Thankfully, Clams don't need quirks to have good robots and weapons.

Could they be reduced? Sure, if you reduce the damage

Your not seriously arguing that clan erll are usable in the current meta are you?
Yes, they do ok on Mad 2C, but they certainly aren't optimal. You know damn well if you could put PPC's instead, you would.

[process]

Anything beyond 1.25 feels like an eternity. I'd happily trade some damage to bring the cER large laser duration down to that value.

Edited by process, 15 March 2017 - 02:10 PM.

[Mcgral18]

SilentWolff, on 15 March 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

Your not seriously arguing that clan erll are usable in the current meta are you?
Yes, they do ok on Mad 2C, but they certainly aren't optimal. You know damn well if you could put PPC's instead, you would.

Maybe

But, they do have a place
See the Grasshopper
Extreme range bracket...kind of where you'd expect a Extended Range Large Laser to shine

1 second is beyond ridiculous a place to set them, however, without cutting their damage down, or bringing their cooldowns WAY up.


isSmall lasers are in a FAR worse place in terms of balance

Edited by Mcgral18, 15 March 2017 - 02:11 PM.

[Deathlike]

If that ERLL spam made our balance overlord do the brief 2s CERLL nerf... thank you.

[Skanderborg]

Different types of weapons exsist for a purpose , their is no "be all win all" choice.

By taking an ER large laser you have superior range but acknowledge that its going to be lackluster in close quarters.

By taking a SRM launcher you have better close ranged dps but its useless after 270m.

Changing the duration of the ER large laser makes it somthing its not supposed to be.

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 15 March 2017 - 02:09 PM, said:

1 second is beyond ridiculous a place to set them, however, without cutting their damage down, or bringing their cooldowns WAY up

How up is way up?

[Mcgral18]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 March 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

How up is way up?

Uh...well, they sit at 1.5+3.25, for 4.75s recycle

If they kept the same 11 damage and went do 1s duration, they'd get nearly a 45% Dam/tick boost (from .73 to 1.1)

That could call for...what, a 6s total recycle, for the sheer range and destruction it can offer? 5.0+1
Similar to the Gauss Rifle
cLPL offers 1.16, at significantly reduced ranges and a 4.37 recycle


Might be too much, but I'd rather not make ranged weapons TOO powerful.
Poke Stronk, and for good reason.

[Deathlike]

I straight up rarely see CERLL. Quirked IS ERLL spam from the Grasshopper-5P is bearable (it has duration quirks, but no heat gen quirks).

[XxRingWraithxX]

I don't think there is any evidence that Clan ER Large would be overpowered. I don't ever recall a time that they have been proven or even tested in competitive play. Especially to be deemed "overpowered" before the duration was increased.

There seems to be no evidence to that affect. The only proof is that there is no evidence and they are not effective. So if they are not now, why not decrease the duration and find out?

Edited by XxRingWraithxX, 15 March 2017 - 03:06 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 15 March 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

Uh...well, they sit at 1.5+3.25, for 4.75s recycle

If they kept the same 11 damage and went do 1s duration, they'd get nearly a 45% Dam/tick boost (from .73 to 1.1)

That could call for...what, a 6s total recycle, for the sheer range and destruction it can offer? 5.0+1
Similar to the Gauss Rifle
cLPL offers 1.16, at significantly reduced ranges and a 4.37 recycle


Might be too much, but I'd rather not make ranged weapons TOO powerful.
Poke Stronk, and for good reason.

Excellent, I'm right on target then for a 1.25 s cERLL at 4.5 to 4.75 s cooldown.

[Mcgral18]

XxRingWraithxX, on 15 March 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

I don't think there is any evidence that Clan ER Large would be overpowered. I don't ever recall a time that they have been proven or even tested in competitive play. Especially to be deemed "overpowered" before the duration was increased.

There seems to be no evidence to that affect. The only proof is that there is no evidence and they are not effective. So if they are not now, why not decrease the duration and find out?

Then you seem to remember poorly

Around the Clam invasion, in fact, almost with identical stats. Only the range was nerfed, IIRC.
And heat nerfed

4 ERLL Timbies, Gauss, 4 ERLL Whales
From much further range, mind you, but it was a thing

[dario03]

1s on cerll might be going to far unless we nerfed it in other ways. Which I would be fine with. Same with cerml, does that really need to be 40% more damage than isml? Lower damage and duration.

But if just lowering duration I would probably go to around 1.25.

[Monkey Lover]

only a clanner would say make IS and Clan erlaser the same duration. Of course i know you're not willing to decrease the damage,slots,weight and decrease the range on the cerl to balance them.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 15 March 2017 - 11:50 PM.

[XxRingWraithxX]

Mcgral18, on 15 March 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

Then you seem to remember poorly Around the Clam invasion, in fact, almost with identical stats. Only the range was nerfed, IIRC. And heat nerfed 4 ERLL Timbies, Gauss, 4 ERLL Whales From much further range, mind you, but it was a thing

Perhaps I do need a memory jog. Do you remember what competitive league Clan ER Large was ever overpowered?

The leagues that I can think of with top level div A play are (RHOD, MRBC, Major League Mechwarrior, World Championships).

[SilentWolff]

Monkey Lover, on 15 March 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

only a clanner would say make IS and Clan erlaser the same duration. Of course i know you're not willing to increase the damage,slots,weight and decrease the range on the cerl to balance them.

Why shouldnt they be the same duration? Sure, clan does more damage and range, but its minimal. On top of that, when you factor ghost heat and the fact you can only shoot 2 erll, while IS can shoot 3, I call it a wash. Explain why you think it isnt?

[SilentWolff]

Mcgral18, on 15 March 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

Then you seem to remember poorly

Around the Clam invasion, in fact, almost with identical stats. Only the range was nerfed, IIRC.
And heat nerfed

4 ERLL Timbies, Gauss, 4 ERLL Whales
From much further range, mind you, but it was a thing

Yes we know it was a thing in open games, thats why I provided the video. It was because of us they were nerfed. But your talking ages ago. The game has changed drastically since then.
Also, we all know clan ERLL are subpar. How many top level teams do you see using them in comp matches? I'll save you the trouble of looking, the answer is none.

[SilentWolff]

Mcgral18, on 15 March 2017 - 02:09 PM, said:

Maybe

But, they do have a place
See the Grasshopper
Extreme range bracket...kind of where you'd expect a Extended Range Large Laser to shine

1 second is beyond ridiculous a place to set them, however, without cutting their damage down, or bringing their cooldowns WAY up.


isSmall lasers are in a FAR worse place in terms of balance

I disagree with the current state of the game. Brawlers seem to reign supreme atm. As I said, a good brawler team can advance under cover quite effectively. While an argument can be made that IS ERLL are in a good place with duration quirks, clan ERLL are a total joke.