55 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ok why is PGI and everyone making this so hard, I just don't get it.

Refund the cost of modules. Then:

If you have a mech mastered, you get 100% of the total skill points unlocked for free, use them how you want to.

If you just have the 4 Elite skills unlocked, you get 90% of your total skill points unlocked for free, use them as you wish.

Then just reduce the number of free SP you get as less and less of the existing skills have been unlocked so a person with just cool run unlocked might only get 5 sp or something.

Its not rock science or even hard. Sure someone with 200 modules would get an obscene amount of C-bills but who cares, it is in game currency and doesn't cost PGI a dime. It wouldn't even cost them much in the way of real revenue because the reason most people buy a mech pack is the early access anyway and that won't go away.

So seriously, PGI just needs to think simply and just make sure that people who already own a mech can unlocked enough SP for free equalivent to the time they invested in playing that mech. It really can't be that hard.

[Sjorpha]

Good idea.

[RussianWolf]

You are talking about PGI.... They can take the simplest idea and complicate the F out of it.

Mastery in the current system should equal about 50% in the new system. I'm excluding Modules because they aren't require for "Mastery" in the current system. The Modules are the other 50%.

I think the problem PGI will have is that the way they have it set, you can't unlock the full Speed Tweak without unlocking the entire tree. Including items that are not in the current system.

Edited by RussianWolf, 16 March 2017 - 08:01 AM.

[MechaBattler]

Apparently PGI cares about the possible billions of c-bills that some players would get back from modules. Going so far as to call it an "economy". I suppose in a sense it is...

I think either way. They're gonna piss someone off. The important thing I guess is not the people with huge collections who have no problem collecting every mech in the game with their money.

Edited by MechaBattler, 16 March 2017 - 08:03 AM.

[WarHippy]

Viktor Drake, on 16 March 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

Ok why is PGI and everyone making this so hard, I just don't get it.

Refund the cost of modules. Then:

If you have a mech mastered, you get 100% of the total skill points unlocked for free, use them how you want to.

If you just have the 4 Elite skills unlocked, you get 90% of your total skill points unlocked for free, use them as you wish.

Then just reduce the number of free SP you get as less and less of the existing skills have been unlocked so a person with just cool run unlocked might only get 5 sp or something.

Its not rock science or even hard. Sure someone with 200 modules would get an obscene amount of C-bills but who cares, it is in game currency and doesn't cost PGI a dime. It wouldn't even cost them much in the way of real revenue because the reason most people buy a mech pack is the early access anyway and that won't go away.

So seriously, PGI just needs to think simply and just make sure that people who already own a mech can unlocked enough SP for free equalivent to the time they invested in playing that mech. It really can't be that hard.

There are a number of ways it can be done simply, unfortunately PGI tends to over/under think things and we end up with very convoluted systems that make little sense to anyone.

[Malrock]

Their system is not currently set up to give people skill points. Thus they would need to code something into the game to create skill points, which could then be given out.

Edited by Malrock, 16 March 2017 - 08:09 AM.

[Michael Kail]

Like most things, this is sure to be more complicated when you're on the other side of the doors at PGI.

Fairness is important to people who play games. If you are not 100% fair to your customers, you won't have many customers.

Consider that we're dealing with real money from paying players. Some people mastered their 'Mechs (not I) with many skill points converted. That costs Mechwarrior Cash. In that case, you're messing with real money people have spent.

The solution in the OP is sound, but there are likely many mechanisms going on that we are not privy to.

[Bud Crue]

The vibe I got from the NGNG stream was the need for a sink so that you are encouraged to use real money on new mechs (and now new tech). I think it is unacceptable to Russ and co if any refund scheme leaves a player with significant excess cbills post theoretical node purchases. Meh.

[DAYLEET]

What should be offending is that they are fine with me putting that billion cbills into mech and keeping those mech. But they arent fine about giving the ability for the people who put that cash into modules to put it back into mech. Mechbays arent even free. What they are saying basically is they have an accessible business system with the mechbays but they dont really want people to use it.

Edited by DAYLEET, 16 March 2017 - 08:28 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

DAYLEET, on 16 March 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:

What should be offending is that they are fine with me putting that billion cbills into mech and keeping those mech. But they arent fine about giving the ability for the people who put that cash into modules to put it back into mech. Mechbays arent even free. What they are saying basically is they have an accessible business system with the mechbays but they dont really want people to use it.

Spot on, that is what bugs me the most. Compared to folks who put their c-bills and gxp in mechs and tech, i put it in mods.
i got literally every module unlocked on max and own 500 mil worth of mods... and pgi is taking a sh!t on me for it it seems.
gg close, pgi. well played. It appears they do not want me as a customer.

[Monkey Lover]

This is what they're doing but now they have to program it in other than running a script to give everyone gxp and cbills.

Well i should say kind of, looks like we're getting upgrade credit for modules not a real refund.

[Bishop Steiner]

Viktor Drake, on 16 March 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

Ok why is PGI and everyone making this so hard, I just don't get it.

Refund the cost of modules. Then:

If you have a mech mastered, you get 100% of the total skill points unlocked for free, use them how you want to.

If you just have the 4 Elite skills unlocked, you get 90% of your total skill points unlocked for free, use them as you wish.

Then just reduce the number of free SP you get as less and less of the existing skills have been unlocked so a person with just cool run unlocked might only get 5 sp or something.

Its not rock science or even hard. Sure someone with 200 modules would get an obscene amount of C-bills but who cares, it is in game currency and doesn't cost PGI a dime. It wouldn't even cost them much in the way of real revenue because the reason most people buy a mech pack is the early access anyway and that won't go away.

So seriously, PGI just needs to think simply and just make sure that people who already own a mech can unlocked enough SP for free equalivent to the time they invested in playing that mech. It really can't be that hard.

Because mastery in the old system is not equal to mastery in the new system. So why should PGI give 30ish extra nodes for free?

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

Because mastery in the old system is not equal to mastery in the new system. So why should PGI give 30ish extra nodes for free?

Sure thing, i bought 2 direwolfs extra to master the one i had, sold them for a heavy loss. got like 1 mil xp on it, mod worth 18 mil just for one build. Not to mention gxp to unlock said mods.
why should i get anything back once the old system got shafted.. idk either.

[Bishop Steiner]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 16 March 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

Sure thing, i bought 2 direwolfs extra to master the one i had, sold them for a heavy loss. got like 1 mil xp on it, mod worth 18 mil just for one build. Not to mention gxp to unlock said mods.
why should i get anything back once the old system got shafted.. idk either.

So, you choose to sell them, knowing if would be at loss, and that is PGIs fault? They made you sell them?

Love the entitlement

[Cementi]

Because the new skill tree is far superior to the old on in bonuses. You get to have many modules on one mech that you likely did not have before if you did it your way.

An xp refund as they have done as well as a module refund with the first half of the tree, maybe 45 nodes, being only xp and not cbills would be reasonable. That could conceivably get you back to close to the same point as the old skill tree. Anything more than that would cost xp and cbills and if you had purchased modules in the past the refund for those should cover it or at least close enough.

Sure you couldn't swap modules anymore but that is a small price to pay considering the modules would effectively be much cheaper and you would be able to customize some of the quirks on your mech.

That and playing module hunter sucked when you have 170 mechs or so. Hell back when I had only 30 or so it still sucked which is why I either bought extra ones or did not bother at all.

[Amsro]

People really need to stop taking sides on this debate and simply agree that all players need 100% refund on the time spent playing the game as it was designed by PGI.

Just because they want to make a new system does not entitle them to leave any old players in the dark.

I can assure you that if 100% mastery is refunded to those who did have them mastered they will be inclined to get more mechs and continue the collection, which is a win for PGI and the players.

On the other side of the coin, those that spent all their cbills on modules will get a lots of cbills back and also be inclined and able to get more mechs. Yet again another win for PGI.

Not to mention with the release of new tech those Cbills will vacate quickly.

TLDR; To summarize, if PGI refunds both styles of MechLab playing then all parties are happy and the game continues progress still encouraging people to purchase new mechs.

This also allows new players to gain easier access by no longer requiring 3 mechs to master. Boosting new player retention.

Edited by Amsro, 16 March 2017 - 12:10 PM.

[Cementi]

Well Amsro they can certainly do that and I won't say no........Ill go from having a ton of master mechs with virtually no modules to a ton of mechs that suddenly have the equivalent of full module loadouts that I never paid for.

I won't say no to that. If they choose to also refund module cbill costs, well I will be able to afford to buy a few extra mechs too.

So sure they can do this. The point I am getting at is that even if they do not I do not feel like I have lost anything, if anything I will gain so I really do not care if they do or don't.

I just want them to develop the game beyond what it is instead of scraping all progress every 6 months or so and continuing the status quo. I have bought my last mechpack otherwise. The Assassin was the last major mech that I would consider buying. With premium time being removed from mechpacks and the game being completely stagnant I have no reason to consider buying more. It is not that I am disatisfied with the product so much as there simply is not enough interest in the game for me to pour my focus and funds into it. The new tech is kind of interesting but all I need to access that is to grind some cbills so that when it comes out I can upgrade my mechs. Still no incentive to pay anything. Ill probally go from buying mechpacks to buying a large premium time pack to discount it some, then eventually when it comes on sale doing so again. But I will just wait for cbill releases on mechpacks.

Oh and ya the rule of 3 has to go. I had three people eagerly anticipating coming back to the game till they backburned this. One of those three installed the game a couple weeks before the release date however even though he has dabbled a bit the last couple weeks he flat out said that he would not have if he had known they were gonna pull the pin again.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

Love the entitlement

entitlement? Get of your horse. It's not like i can have a master skill on it without buying 2 more (expensive) variants.
And i am sure as [Redacted] that PGI came up with that stupid rule of 3 and not me. I do not need three direwolfs, i wanted one with master skill. In short, a [Redacted] leveling system.

Edited by draiocht, 20 March 2017 - 03:12 PM.
inappropriate language

[Amsro]

Cementi, on 16 March 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

Well Amsro they can certainly do that and I won't say no........Ill go from having a ton of master mechs with virtually no modules to a ton of mechs that suddenly have the equivalent of full module loadouts that I never paid for.

And that is exactly how PGI expected players to use their system, so why should you or I or anyone who played using this method be required to spend an additional cbills to get their currently usable mechs back to usable?

I won't say no to that. If they choose to also refund module cbill costs, well I will be able to afford to buy a few extra mechs too.

Modules spent should be recovered as the only reason to buy multiple modules was to save from playing a module minigame. If modules are being removed then a refund is in order.
So sure they can do this. The point I am getting at is that even if they do not I do not feel like I have lost anything, if anything I will gain so I really do not care if they do or don't.

While I understand, since you have lots of modules the cbills you get back will allow you to remaster your mechs, but someone like myself who spent most of my earned cbills on mechs and outfitting those while swapping modules in between matches would have ZERO mastered mechs.

And I would be required to grind another 2 years worth of my time just to remaster the mechs back to a usable state, like my 70+ mastered mechs are currently. I just swap modules and I have a complete and viable mech. All that would be reset.
I just want them to develop the game beyond what it is instead of scraping all progress every 6 months or so and continuing the status quo. I have bought my last mechpack otherwise. The Assassin was the last major mech that I would consider buying. With premium time being removed from mechpacks and the game being completely stagnant I have no reason to consider buying more. It is not that I am disatisfied with the product so much as there simply is not enough interest in the game for me to pour my focus and funds into it. The new tech is kind of interesting but all I need to access that is to grind some cbills so that when it comes out I can upgrade my mechs. Still no incentive to pay anything. Ill probally go from buying mechpacks to buying a large premium time pack to discount it some, then eventually when it comes on sale doing so again. But I will just wait for cbill releases on mechpacks.

Again I am also looking forward to the new skill tree ( really liked the overall feel ) In fact I didn't even consider that all my mechs would be unusable because I had epic amounts of cbills on the PTS and didn't think twice about the cbill cost at the time.

But if I need to remaster all those mechs again, what incentive is their for me to buy more mechbays and get more mechs or mechpacks if there is no chance of me even getting to those until 2020?
Oh and ya the rule of 3 has to go. I had three people eagerly anticipating coming back to the game till they backburned this. One of those three installed the game a couple weeks before the release date however even though he has dabbled a bit the last couple weeks he flat out said that he would not have if he had known they were gonna pull the pin again.

See for me the rule of 3 makes no difference, as I just get EVERY variant of all IS mechs, play them all because I set them all up a little different. Sure I obviously have some redundant mechs but its still the way I play the game.

But I can understand that lots of variants are just flat out crap compared to another chassis or only 1 variant is worth using, maybe because of ECM, or MASC.

And for those that don't want to collect or grind a crap chassis I'm happy for them that the rule of 3 is going away.

I just replied within the quote.

Final statement on how deeply I felt about the entire thing; I couldn't even bring myself to log into the game to play a match the entire time that I knew I wasn't getting enough cbills to remaster my mechs, because it felt like PGI was taking away my last 5 years of time investment.

And because of that deep feeling of loss I'm sure I wrote some rageful posts to some people in threads here and there, and for that I'm sorry.

I just know that there is a solution for all that won't take away from any of the player base. While at the same time ecouraging players to support PGI.

Lets be honest happy people buy stuff, so whats a few hundred million cbills matter to PGI if I decide to buy another pack or 2 of mechs or MC or resistance hero mechs. Not that i need to spend more $$ yet.

[Amsro]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

So, you choose to sell them, knowing if would be at loss, and that is PGIs fault? They made you sell them?

Love the entitlement

Toha Heavy Industries, on 16 March 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

entitlement? Get of your horse. It's not like i can have a master skill on it without buying 2 more (expensive) variants.
And i am sure as [Redacted] that PGI came up with that stupid rule of 3 and not me. I do not need three direwolfs, i wanted one with master skill. In short, a [Redacted] leveling system.

I know we are all a little salty still, due to recent and not so recent things.

But lets try to play nice if we can.

Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

Because mastery in the old system is not equal to mastery in the new system. So why should PGI give 30ish extra nodes for free?

Yes and No.

I move my modules around, so therefore I always play "mastered" mechs

This was PGI's design, since it's a grey area it should be refunded to.

Edited by draiocht, 20 March 2017 - 03:14 PM.
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