50 replies to this topic

[Jay Leon Hart]

Howdy! So, I recall reading about people wanting crit splitting to fir the LB 20-X AC into a Bushwacker arm because, unlike the LB 10-X AC, it is larger than it's "regular" counterpart.

So, for the sake of consistency, would people be opposed to tweaking the tonnage and crits of the new IS ACs?

TT

Weapon - Tonnage / Crits

AC2 - 6 / 1

UAC2 - 7 / 3

LBX2AC - 6 / 4

AC5 - 8 / 4

UAC5 - 9 / 5

LBX5AC - 8 / 5

AC10 - 12 / 7

UAC10 - 13 / 7

LBX10AC - 11 / 6

AC20 - 14 / 10

UAC20 - 15 / 10

LBX20AC - 14 / 11

What I would like to see is them keep the formula of Ultra = +1 ton, +1 crit and LBX = -1 ton, -1 crit, which gives us;

Proposed

Weapon - Tonnage / Crits

AC2 - 6 / 1

UAC2 - 7 / 2

LBX2AC - 5 / 1

AC5 - 8 / 4

UAC5 - 9 / 5

LBX5AC - 7 / 3

AC10 - 12 / 7

UAC10 - 13 / 8

LBX10AC - 11 / 6

AC20 - 14 / 10

UAC20 - 15 / 11

LBX20AC - 13 / 9

To compare what changes;
UAC2 uses 1 less crit
LBX2AC uses 1 less ton and 3 less crits
LBX5AC uses 1 less ton and 2 less crits
UAC10 uses 1 more crit
UAC20 uses 1 more crit
LBX20AC uses 1 less ton and 2 less crits

So mostly UAC "nerfs" and LBX "buffs" which, honestly, I feel is ok. Some players are already fearing single shell IS UAC10s and UAC20s will be too powerful - this makes them larger. LBXACs are, for IS at least, not as favourable - this makes them all a lighter, smaller option.

What do you think? Am I letting my need for symmetry go a little far?

[Wintersdark]

Pretty unlikely the uacs will be single shell. I'd expect clan-1, so 2 for the 10 and 3 for the 20.

I'd argue crit splitting would be a much better way to go, but that's unlikely. Reducing the size/weight is EXTREMELY unlikely. Wouldn't holdy breath for either.

[TaintedLuck]

Wintersdark, on 15 March 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

Pretty unlikely the uacs will be single shell. I'd expect clan-1, so 2 for the 10 and 3 for the 20.

I'd argue crit splitting would be a much better way to go, but that's unlikely. Reducing the size/weight is EXTREMELY unlikely. Wouldn't holdy breath for either.

IS UAC5 is a single shot there is no reason they would change the rest to be burst fire like the clans

[Khobai]

Bushwhacker isnt supposed to have an lbx20 in its arm. deal with it.

And IS uacs are extremely unlikely to be single shell and will most likely be burst fire like the clan ones. otherwise dual uac20s would be super imbalanced. you could near-instantly put 80 damage into someones CT. That would be utterly stupid and irresponsible of PGI to allow that.

Also PGI needs figure out a way to enable multiple ammo types for weapons so LBX can fire both slug and cluster munitions. Enabling the LBX to fire both slug and cluster ammo would help justify why it takes up more crits. And also so new ammo types can be added for the standard ACs to keep them relevant in the game.

Quote

IS UAC5 is a single shot there is no reason they would change the rest to be burst fire like the clans

there are reasons. to be consistent with the IS UAC20 for example. which simply wouldnt be balanced as single shot and would have to be burst fire.

Its also highly likely that IS UACs will become burst fire in order to keep standard autocannons from becoming obsolete.

Edited by Khobai, 16 March 2017 - 04:44 AM.

[TaintedLuck]

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 04:27 AM, said:

Bushwhacker isnt supposed to have an lbx20 in its arm. deal with it.

And IS uacs are extremely unlikely to be single shell and will most likely be burst fire like the clan ones. otherwise dual uac20s would be super imbalanced. you could near-instantly put 80 damage into someones CT. That would be utterly stupid and irresponsible of PGI to allow that.

Also PGI needs figure out a way to enable multiple ammo types for weapons so LBX can fire both slug and cluster munitions. Enabling the LBX to fire both slug and cluster ammo would help justify why it takes up more crits. And also so new ammo types can be added for the standard ACs to keep them relevant in the game.



there are reasons. to be consistent with the IS UAC20 for example. which simply wouldnt be balanced as single shot and would have to be burst fire.

Its also highly likely that IS UACs will become burst fire in order to keep standard autocannons from becoming obsolete.

the UAC20 is balanced by the sheer fact that its big and heavy maybe you forget as a clanner but IS do not have the luxury of having vast amounts of free tonnage and crit slots to work with.
If a IS mech wants to use a UAC20 that is 15 tons and 10 slots so its limited to being a ST weapon only. need me to school you on anything else clammer?
and befor i forget UACs have a jam duration based on its size so there is no way a UAC20 will replace the AC20

Edited by TaintedLuck, 16 March 2017 - 05:04 AM.

[Wintersdark]

TaintedLuck, on 16 March 2017 - 04:20 AM, said:

IS UAC5 is a single shot there is no reason they would change the rest to be burst fire like the clans

The clan UAC2 is single shot, and the UAC5 is two-shell. Using Clan-1 is consistent then leaving the UAC5 at one shell, then 2 shells for the 10 and 3 for the 20.

[Khobai]

Quote

the UAC20 is balanced by the sheer fact that its big and heavy maybe you forget as a clanner but IS do not have the luxury of having vast amounts of free tonnage and crit slots to work with.

you sound absurd.

weighing a few extra tons does not justify doing 80 damage near instantly to one location.

dual IS UAC20 will not be balanced unless its burst fire. thats a fact.

Also it makes standard autocannon20s completely obsolete if UAC20s can fire single shots. Its not gonna happen.

Edited by Khobai, 16 March 2017 - 05:17 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Well, one thing that is certain, given that IS LBX ACs are considerably worse than standard IS ACs in this game, is that an 11 slot LBX20 that can only fit into a ST with a STD engine will never, ever, be used over a standard AC20 which fits into STs with a LFE or fits into arms.

PGI dont like changing TT tonnages/slots though, so i think that is doomed to be an unused item.

[Andi Nagasia]

agree with everything but UAC10/20 using 1 more Crit, at least UAC20 should be the same size as AC20,
i came up with similar LBX stats in my Topic(New Tech & Weapons Stats! & How They Could Work?)

[Widowmaker1981]

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 05:13 AM, said:

you sound absurd.

weighing a few extra tons does not justify doing 80 damage near instantly to one location.

dual IS UAC20 will not be balanced unless its burst fire. thats a fact.

They will obviously have a ghost heat limit of 1 like the normal AC20 (and probably a higher multiplier), so thats not quite true...

[Khobai]

Quote

IS LBX ACs are considerably worse than standard IS ACs in this game

IS LBX should be able to fire both cluster and slug as well as having longer range when firing slugs
while IS AC should be able to use slugs and special ammo like armor piercing
IS Ultras/Rotarys should burst fire to keep standard autocannons relevant

Quote

They will obviously have a ghost heat limit of 1 like the normal AC20 (and probably a higher multiplier), so thats not quite true...

AC20 having a ghost heat limit of 1 doesnt stop people from firing two AC20s at once. I do it all the time.

Just like UAC20 having a ghost heat limit of 1 wouldnt stop me from double tapping dual UAC20s and doing 80 damage to someone near instantly.

overheating is often a small price to pay if it means outright killing an enemy heavy or mostly killing an enemy assault.

So yeah youre nuts if you think UAC20s are going to fire single shots. They will be burst fire. You need to accept that.

Edited by Khobai, 16 March 2017 - 05:42 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 05:16 AM, said:

IS LBX should be able to fire both cluster and slug as well as having longer range when firing slugs
while IS AC should be able to use slugs and special ammo like armor piercing

PGI dont know how to do ammo switching in this engine though, so that is totally irrelevant.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 16 March 2017 - 05:17 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

PGI dont know how to do ammo switching in this engine though, so that is totally irrelevant.

not entirely true.

they can make LBX switch between slug and cluster modes, it would just have to use the same ammo for both.

thats a plausible workaround.

[Mechteric]

Pretty sure crit splitting will never happen in MWO, I'm quite sure how they designed it would need major overhaul to support and just not worth the effort. Probably is part of the reason we don't see Arrow IV in the update as well, since the IS version requires 15 crit slots.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 16 March 2017 - 05:22 AM.

[TaintedLuck]

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 05:13 AM, said:

weight a few extra tons does not justify doing 80 damage near instantly in one location. you sound absurd.

dual IS UAC20 will not be balanced unless its burst fire. thats a fact.

and your basing that on having a pair UAC20 on a single mech those would be their only weapons that are only good at close range and guess what Clan dont even put a pair of UAC20 on anything and they got all the tonnage and crit slots to do that and have back up weapons to boot.

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

not entirely true.

they can make LBX switch between slug and cluster modes, it would just have to use the same ammo for both.

thats a plausible workaround.

and your breaking your own argument about if the UACs were single shot they would obsolete normal AC if the LB could fire slugs that would obsolete normal ACs as well certainly true for LB10

Edited by TaintedLuck, 16 March 2017 - 05:33 AM.

[TaintedLuck]

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 05:25 AM, said:

how would that be their only weapons?

The addition of LFE means I can not only fit dual UAC20s on a mech like the king crab but plenty of other weapons too.

again theres no way in hell IS UAC20s are going to fire single shots. theyll be burst weapons.

you cant even put UAC20 on a king crab its a SIDE TORSO WEAPON ONLY so it has to be in a MAULER.

edit: ma bad forgot the arms of king crabs only had 2 fixed slots so yeah i guess a uac20 could fit

Edited by TaintedLuck, 16 March 2017 - 05:53 AM.

[Mcgral18]

TaintedLuck, on 16 March 2017 - 05:35 AM, said:

you cant even put UAC20 on a king crab its a SIDE TORSO WEAPON ONLY so it has to be in a MAULER.

blatantly ignoring facts to justify your own logic

False
10 slots, same as an AC20
Only IS LB20x and HGauss require a STD engine

The isUAC20 is going to be a burst, 2 or 3 shells, At launch

[Khobai]

TaintedLuck, on 16 March 2017 - 05:35 AM, said:

you cant even put UAC20 on a king crab its a SIDE TORSO WEAPON ONLY so it has to be in a MAULER.

blatantly ignoring facts to justify your own logic

huh? ISUAC20 is only 10 crits it can fit in arms or side torso

but what difference does it make anyway? Even a mauler can take dual ISUAC20s and still have tonnage for plenty of other weapons.

the point is youre wrong that two ISUAC20s will be the mech's only weapons.

youre also nuts if you think ISUAC20s are going to single fire.

Edited by Khobai, 16 March 2017 - 05:46 AM.

[TaintedLuck]

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 05:43 AM, said:

huh? ISUAC20 is only 10 crits it can fit in side torso

but what difference does it make anyway? Even a mauler can take dual ISUAC20s and still have tonnage for plenty of other weapons.

the point is youre wrong that ISUAC20s will be the mech's only weapons.

youre also nuts if you think ISUAC20s are going to single fire.

so mauler max engine is 325 LFE and UAC20 means all crit slots in both side torsos are full back up weapons will be 6 med lasers 7 tones of ammo and 3 heat sinks
so ghost heat for the UAC20s and 6 lasers your gonna over heat lots

Edited by TaintedLuck, 16 March 2017 - 05:51 AM.

[l33tworks]

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 05:43 AM, said:

huh? ISUAC20 is only 10 crits it can fit in arms or side torso

but what difference does it make anyway? Even a mauler can take dual ISUAC20s and still have tonnage for plenty of other weapons.

the point is youre wrong that two ISUAC20s will be the mech's only weapons.

youre also nuts if you think ISUAC20s are going to single fire.

Man you are so wrong...
First of all you dont even know you can only fit is uac20 in side torso..
Only a handfull of mechs will be able to run dual uac20 and it will be only with a std engine and they will be a one trick pony that will not pay of.
Im not saying they cant make IS UAC20.burst but it would be strange of them to do so since thays their thing and it certainly wont be this OP monster you are claiming it would be if it were single shot.

Its going to be hot as to double tap two of them, instant shutdown and i bet you wont even kill your opponent then you will be slaughtered. How many people do you see using direstars on a regular basis ? Heck 80%:of the time even a direstar wont kill the opponent for some pgi reason and thats 1 alpha vs 2.

Also You can already get similar damage using two gauss and 3 ppcs with 1 alpha instead of 2 for much less heat and no shutdown but how many do you see using that?

You can already run 3xuac20 on direwolf but how many do you see doung that?