127 replies to this topic

[Kanil]

Any of the "good" heavy Clan Omnimechs. They're probably the most forgiving 'mechs in the game, with enough speed to help keep you out of trouble (or at least not get NASCAR'd) and a bit of durability as well. Omnipods means you can reconfigure them and try assorted playstyles significantly cheaper than buying comparable battlemechs.

Hellbringer seems like the best choice, thanks to it's ECM, but the Timber Wolf and Ebon Jaguar would work just fine.

[meteorol]

MacClearly, on 22 March 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

Except you are bad at analogies.
The Hunchie is not a car without brakes. It has decent hardpoints and a lot of options. Decent speed and is affordable.

Except, the "Hunchie" is terrible car. It's a subpar mech. It's flat out inferior to other choices available. It's strictly worse. There is no way you could realistically dispute the fact there are way better mechs.

To go by your own analogy, because you are evidently so good at them, the "Hunchie" is actually closer to the Formular One Car you don't want to put people in than countless other mechs. It's harder to use than other cars, it will punish mistakes, and is generally a lot less forgiving than other cars. (same goes for the centurion, btw)

MacClearly, on 22 March 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

You simply saying that this won't work for the majority of players is silly. You are stating your opinion like it is a fact.

Being a coach for years gave me a rather good idea on how the majority of "new" people reacts to the "learn the hard way" approach. They stop.

MacClearly, on 22 March 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

Again, this has been a popular first mech for a long time and skilled and experienced players have recommended it for a reason.

The main reason why it's still recommended is because people are living in the past. It has been a good starter mech for the lack of alternatives. YEARS ago. The game has dramatically changed since the days when the "Hunchie" was a good starter mech. It's outdated. A relict from the past. Not well suited to start the game nowadays, because there are WAY better alternatives.

People who do recommend the HBK nowadays are simply giving new players bad advice. They are gimping them without any need to do so.

MacClearly, on 22 March 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

You simply saying that this won't work for the majority of players is silly. You are stating your opinion like it is a fact.

MacClearly, on 22 March 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

I was a new player 11 months ago, came to the forums and took the advice. Bought a 4J, 4SP, and a 4G and got hooked like so many. I now have over 200 mechs over two accounts. So you cannot say that new players will have a terrible time.

So me stating my opinion is silly, while you comparing your own subjective, unique, experience to "new players" in general is smart?

Ok then. Carry on. I don't feel like arguing here. If i'm introducing new people to the game, i'll recommend good mechs. If you absolutely feel like giving new players a harder time than needed by recommending mechs that are strictly worse than the available alternatives, go ahead. It's not my NPE that will be worse than it could be, after all.

[The Lighthouse]

Sigh,

I am pretty sure the average age of the people in this forum is quite higher due to the nature of this game.

Remember when you first applied for driver license, and trying to learn to drive a car. Did your drive teacher gave you a trailer truck, which requires precise backward movement, constant situation aware, and ability to very accurately predict the available space between the truck and obstacle to drive?

NO, your drive teacher most likely didn't (mine didn't.) He/she probably just gave you a simple, easy-to-drive small sedan for you first timers.



You are not going to recommend IS mechs that requires some knowledge of using Mechlab to make the mech at least semi-usable. Just try use a mech with single heatsinks. You won't go far.


You are not going to recommend the IS mechs that requires specific movements to properly survive.


You are not going to recommend the IS mechs that have hardpoints that forces people to expose majority of the mechs to fire at something.


Finally, with absolute Clan superiority, simply you are not going to recommend the IS mechs that are obviously less performing than Clan mechs.



If you think about it, it is super d*** move.

"Hey! YOU MUST SUFFER yourself with this crappy, unreliable and hard-to-use Centurion! Meanwhile I will rekt you with my shiny Huntsman!"

Do you guys really think the people will going to stick with this game by meeting such bullish attitude?

Edited by The Lighthouse, 23 March 2017 - 01:35 AM.

[The Lighthouse]

By the way, Kanajashi is currently doing a series of F2P video for Mechwarrior Online for new players, and guess what's his choice of the first mech for new F2P players?

[Dr Hobo]

What makes the Hunchy inferior? It's a great mech! It still is. It's just been overshadowed by the Clam version.

The reason why I recommend the Hunchy is because it *forces* you to learn skills such as torso twisting and armor rolling. Yes it's soft(as all mediums are) yes it's slow stock,and yes it hate XL engines,but it's a great fun mech that follows bigger meaner mechs around until you learn the ropes.

It's also a great Atlas trainer IMHO.

[Appogee]

While Clan Mechs cost more, they are far easier to achieve good scores in.

Timbie if you have the CBills.

Storm Crow or Hunchback if you dont. Hellbringer is solid, too.

Huntsman is too slow. Being out of position - as every new player will be - costs you your Mech.

Edited by Appogee, 23 March 2017 - 02:02 AM.

[Kaspirikay]

IS - Marauder 3R
Clan - Timberwolf

Both are easy for new players and deadly af in the hands of an experienced player.

[The Lighthouse]

Dr Hobo, on 23 March 2017 - 01:52 AM, said:

What makes the Hunchy inferior? It's a great mech! It still is. It's just been overshadowed by the Clam version.

The reason why I recommend the Hunchy is because it *forces* you to learn skills such as torso twisting and armor rolling. Yes it's soft(as all mediums are) yes it's slow stock,and yes it hate XL engines,but it's a great fun mech that follows bigger meaner mechs around until you learn the ropes.

It's also a great Atlas trainer IMHO.

Sigh, I think both meteorol and I exmplained why this "forces someone" is bad idea for new players, for several times. It's terrible idea and should not be even mentioned.

Also, with exception of 4SP, hunchback is easily neutered by anyone who can aim. Most of the its firepower is at the right torso, and when it's gone, you are out of the game. It does not help the fact that the torso is also very extruded that it naturally draws fire no matter what as well as unable to completely shield that gigantic side torso.

[Ruccus]

I think there are pros and cons to 'min/maxing' your first mech choice, but know what you're getting into if you choose the easiest mechs to pilot from the start. You won't be punished as hard for your mistakes and you'll likely progress up the tier ladder more quickly. If you're just going to have a small stable of only the most effective mechs that's fine, but if you want to try all sorts of different mechs you might want to simply choose one that interests you and is just known as a solid, decent option.

I'd suggest an IS medium in the 50 or 55 ton range, or the Cicada if you're into speed, sniping, and hit-and-run tactics so you can also dip your toe into faction play with scouting missions once you've learned the mech and leveled it up a bit. For your second mech you might then want to try a clan medium in the same general category as your first choice to see the differences between IS and clan. From there decide whether you want to go with one side or the other, and move up to a heavy that interests you, or down to a light if you decide on a speedy medium as your first mech and like it.

[The Lobsters]

The hunchie is a great starter mech, esp the 4sp, and certainly a great starter mastery pack.


For all the guys saying that it is a bad choice for a newbro because it has an easily targeted weak spot (not the 4sp however)

that's not really going to be an issue in tier 5.

[B0oN]

IS TDR´s
Clan HBR´s

On both go with laservomit, so you instantly learn heatmanagement, torsotwisting and pinpointing of components .

TDR is a very capable STD mech that is able to take a beating while dishing out some serious hurt . A bit inflexible in weapons choice, but such a very capable damage dealer .

HBR is jack-of-all-trades Clan heavy: versatile, flexible, reliable, albeit a bit squishy, but will teach tactical teamplay (ECM and covering you or exposed friendly mechs) map positioning and mob movement ( "armoured caterpillar" or "deathball" style) .

[Orions Belt Belt]

well Im not sure if the OP values speed over durability, but here are my picks.

Clan
1st Hellbringer prime (ecm)

if it doenst thrill you I would then go with

2nd Huntsman (durablity) or
3rd Dragonfly (speed)

IS
1st Cyclops 11-P (The most variable build heavy/assault mech with ECM)
2nd Warhammer or Mauler (Both can be built to the OP's requests, its a trade of speed or armor.)
3rd Cicada 3M ( its a good speedy Sniper/scout/hunter with ECM)

[mogs01gt]

MacClearly, on 22 March 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

Except you are bad at analogies.
The Hunchie is not a car without brakes. It has decent hardpoints and a lot of options. Decent speed and is affordable.
You simply saying that this won't work for the majority of players is silly. You are stating your opinion like it is a fact. Again, this has been a popular first mech for a long time and skilled and experienced players have recommended it for a reason.
You also think that running this mech will not be fun...ridiculous. I was a new player 11 months ago, came to the forums and took the advice. Bought a 4J, 4SP, and a 4G and got hooked like so many. I now have over 200 mechs over two accounts. So you cannot say that new players will have a terrible time.

STOP IT. This is the same **** that has been spewed for years and causes new players nothing but headaches. Why on earth would anyone recommend a mech that has an effective range of around 250 or less meters?

Also, the reason why you wouldnt start someone off driving in a F1 or Nascar is because they handle like **** to anyone who has never driven a racecar. There is a reason why kart racing exists.

New players need range, if you arent recommending a Clan mech then you are just gimping players.

The Lighthouse, on 23 March 2017 - 01:34 AM, said:

Sigh,
I am pretty sure the average age of the people in this forum is quite higher due to the nature of this game.
Remember when you first applied for driver license, and trying to learn to drive a car. Did your drive teacher gave you a trailer truck, which requires precise backward movement, constant situation aware, and ability to very accurately predict the available space between the truck and obstacle to drive?
NO, your drive teacher most likely didn't (mine didn't.) He/she probably just gave you a simple, easy-to-drive small sedan for you first timers.
You are not going to recommend IS mechs that requires some knowledge of using Mechlab to make the mech at least semi-usable. Just try use a mech with single heatsinks. You won't go far.
You are not going to recommend the IS mechs that requires specific movements to properly survive.
You are not going to recommend the IS mechs that have hardpoints that forces people to expose majority of the mechs to fire at something.
Finally, with absolute Clan superiority, simply you are not going to recommend the IS mechs that are obviously less performing than Clan mechs.
If you think about it, it is super d*** move.
"Hey! YOU MUST SUFFER yourself with this crappy, unreliable and hard-to-use Centurion! Meanwhile I will rekt you with my shiny Huntsman!"
Do you guys really think the people will going to stick with this game by meeting such bullish attitude?

If you want to teach someone real driving skills, you start them off with vehicles that teaches them how to control a car. Not some POS FWD car, this is why people cant drive anymore. I learned to drive in a Corvette, well after I learned to drive a skid steer.

My son will learn at the track in my Mustang or I might buy him a kart.

Edited by mogs01gt, 23 March 2017 - 04:52 AM.

[MacClearly]

meteorol, on 22 March 2017 - 10:33 PM, said:

Except, the "Hunchie" is terrible car. It's a subpar mech. It's flat out inferior to other choices available. It's strictly worse. There is no way you could realistically dispute the fact there are way better mechs.

To go by your own analogy, because you are evidently so good at them, the "Hunchie" is actually closer to the Formular One Car you don't want to put people in than countless other mechs. It's harder to use than other cars, it will punish mistakes, and is generally a lot less forgiving than other cars. (same goes for the centurion, btw)



Being a coach for years gave me a rather good idea on how the majority of "new" people reacts to the "learn the hard way" approach. They stop.



The main reason why it's still recommended is because people are living in the past. It has been a good starter mech for the lack of alternatives. YEARS ago. The game has dramatically changed since the days when the "Hunchie" was a good starter mech. It's outdated. A relict from the past. Not well suited to start the game nowadays, because there are WAY better alternatives.

People who do recommend the HBK nowadays are simply giving new players bad advice. They are gimping them without any need to do so.





So me stating my opinion is silly, while you comparing your own subjective, unique, experience to "new players" in general is smart?

Ok then. Carry on. I don't feel like arguing here. If i'm introducing new people to the game, i'll recommend good mechs. If you absolutely feel like giving new players a harder time than needed by recommending mechs that are strictly worse than the available alternatives, go ahead. It's not my NPE that will be worse than it could be, after all.

No a hunchie is closer to a Volkswagen which is why it is appropriate to learn on in my opinion. No where did I say that I was great in them either and in other parts of this thread I also suggested that the IIC version would be a good starting point as well.

We are butting heads here primarily because I feel that you are exaggerating how bad the Hunchie is. Therefor seeing it as a punishment and hindering enjoying the game. I get that but I don't think it is nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

As far as whether it is 'smart' or that my experience is 'unique' I object. My experience is relatively recent, and is based on going by what the prevailing opinion was in the forums a year ago when I started. To be fair, I brought it up due to an assumption that I was a newer player than you are. I recognise your name and while I have not checked the stats or anything I am willing to bet that they would show you are a better pilot than I am.

The other reasons for my saying that it is still a strong beginers choice is it is one of the most versatile mediums as far as loadout. Between laser vomit, big ballistics, and even missiles, it has got you covered. Remember a new player is playing against other new players and bad players.

We probably will never come close to agreeing. Guess for some, a Kodiak 3 dakka build would be great for a new player to start off in. Be a quick way to shoot into tier 3 anyways but I personally feel this approach would not keep a player long term.

[MacClearly]

The Lighthouse, on 23 March 2017 - 01:38 AM, said:

By the way, Kanajashi is currently doing a series of F2P video for Mechwarrior Online for new players, and guess what's his choice of the first mech for new F2P players?

I actually think that this or the Hunchie IIC are also very good choices for first mechs. It does seem though that a lot of new players start off IS. Personally don't think that the Hunchie or Centurion are as bad as you make them out and I think that you have to consider who the new player will be playing against. I bet it is not that hard to wreck face in a 4G in tier five.

[MacClearly]

mogs01gt, on 23 March 2017 - 04:47 AM, said:

STOP IT. This is the same **** that has been spewed for years and causes new players nothing but headaches. Why on earth would anyone recommend a mech that has an effective range of around 250 or less meters?

Also, the reason why you wouldnt start someone off driving in a F1 or Nascar is because they handle like **** to anyone who has never driven a racecar. There is a reason why kart racing exists.

New players need range, if you arent recommending a Clan mech then you are just gimping players.

If you want to teach someone real driving skills, you start them off with vehicles that teaches them how to control a car. Not some POS FWD car, this is why people cant drive anymore. I learned to drive in a Corvette, well after I learned to drive a skid steer.

My son will learn at the track in my Mustang or I might buy him a kart.

You can knock it off with the cap lock stop it. It is childish.

We have very different opinions. I was new around a year ago and it is still relatively fresh to me.

Many new player are IS and the whole idea of Clan only for new players is problematic.

Even if a new guy want to go Clan, they have an excellent version of the Hunchie.

As far as your son learning in an overpowered car, good luck. I know a guy who got his son a 911 for his first car. He no longer has a 911 or a son. You might teach a kid on weekends the limits of a powerful car and advanced driving techniques. If you then let him take that car out alone, with his friends during the week, good luck to you.

[Y E O N N E]

I started with Lolcust. :x

[Spheroid]

Recommending 200 STD mediums is not doing noobs any favors. Not really cheaper either since there is an immediate engine, endo and heatsink tax.

The Huntsman, Nova, Crab or Stormcrow are all better suggestions.

The game has changed. There is a reason the 4G is not seen anymore, its obsolete. Stop advocating for Hunchbacks.

[mogs01gt]

MacClearly, on 23 March 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

You can knock it off with the cap lock stop it. It is childish.
We have very different opinions. I was new around a year ago and it is still relatively fresh to me.
Many new player are IS and the whole idea of Clan only for new players is problematic.
Even if a new guy want to go Clan, they have an excellent version of the Hunchie.
As far as your son learning in an overpowered car, good luck. I know a guy who got his son a 911 for his first car. He no longer has a 911 or a son. You might teach a kid on weekends the limits of a powerful car and advanced driving techniques. If you then let him take that car out alone, with his friends during the week, good luck to you.

Welcome to the internet, caps are used to get attention and I always put abbreviations in capitals..Clan Hunchie is fantastic and is leaps and bounds better than IS hunchies.

His first car wont be a car, he'll get a 4WD truck because winter and all. 911s, being rear engines, are prone to having rear-ends that are very hard to straighten back out after a certain point. Bad idea to let a kid drive one. I've scene professional racers wreck them going around easy turns.

Edited by mogs01gt, 23 March 2017 - 10:24 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

911 is rear-engine, the 918 is mid. Carry on!