135 replies to this topic

[Zergling]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 March 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

RATs are weight class based, and I'm pretty sure the Warhawk was more common than the Turkina.

Well, the Jade Falcon Sourcebook has all the Clan Jade Falcon Galaxies detailed down to individual mech and pilot names, as they were immediately prior to the Clan Invasion or the Battle of Tukayyid.
Although it doesn't have any Turkina's listed because it was written prior to that mech being 'released' in TRO3058.

IIRC, the Clan Jade Falcon invasion force was rather 'light'; lots of light mechs. Lemme dig out the book and take a look.

EDIT: scratch that, it does have Turkina's.

There's 4 of them in the Turkina Keshik's 10 mech Stars, along with some Night Gyr, Black Lanner and Fire Falcon.
It's odd those mechs are in there, because the Jade Falcon Sourcebook is from 1992, but TRO3058 is from 1995.

Edited by Zergling, 29 March 2017 - 11:05 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Zergling, on 29 March 2017 - 10:56 AM, said:

EDIT: scratch that, it does have Turkina's.

Interesting, would be interesting to see the Turkina to Warhawk ratio...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Zergling, on 29 March 2017 - 10:56 AM, said:

It's odd those mechs are in there, because the Jade Falcon Sourcebook is from 1992, but TRO3058 is from 1995.

Not really, several mechs made debuts in sourcebooks before they hit a TRO. I believe the Sha-Yu and Lao Hu were similar in that they debuted in a sourcebook before their respective TROs (could be wrong though).

[Zergling]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 March 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

Not really, several mechs made debuts in sourcebooks before they hit a TRO. I believe the Sha-Yu and Lao Hu were similar in that they debuted in a sourcebook before their respective TROs (could be wrong though).

The Jade Falcon Sourcebook was the kind of book they'd be debuted in though; instead it has some second-line mechs that were later shown in TRO3055 (the Baboon, Hellhound, Kraken and Vixen).
TRO3055 was released the same year as the Jade Falcon Sourcebook though /shrug

I'm guessing the Turkina, Night Gyr, Black Lanner and Fire Falcon might have showed up in some of the magazines FASA was running back then.

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 11:03 AM, said:

Interesting, would be interesting to see the Turkina to Warhawk ratio...

Pretty low outside the Turkina Keshik. I'm not sure if any other CJF unit has them listed, but I'll go through in a minute.


Era Report: 3052 has CJF Random Assignment Tables though.

2D6 dice roll and result:
2 = Turkina
3 = Marauder IIC
4 = Warhammer IIC
5 = Man O'War / Gargoyle
6 = Gladiator / Executioner
7 = Man O'War / Gargoyle
8 = Gladiator / Executioner
9 = Gladiator / Executioner
10 = Daishi / Dire Wolf
11 = Masakari / Warhawk
12 = Kraken / Bane

That gives 1 in 36 / 2.78% probability of a Turkina, versus 1 in 12 / 8.33% probability of a Warhawk, so the Warhawk is about 3 times more common than the Turkina for CJF in 3048-3052 time frame, using those RATs.

Edited by Zergling, 29 March 2017 - 11:19 AM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

Lets just have the Blood Asp so we can have ANOTHER Version of the Boiler/Mad Cat. Mk.II



Well, it is a Jumper at least. And like I said, since most of the hardpoints are just about cockpit level or above, those 3 hover jets should allow for some level of hop tarting.

Ironically with this statement, PGI might make the Blood Asp better than the MK.2 because it's Paul's favorite pet mech. IMO, I think it looks cooler and more original than the MK.2. I better be able to slap a crusader great helm on mine.







With decals we can make this happen.

[Rekkon]

I would not mind seeing the Turkina to fill the Falcon assault slot, but there are other, rather more important niches that should be filled first, like a Clan 20-tonner.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Zergling, on 29 March 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

Era Report: 3052 has CJF Random Assignment Tables though.

2D6 dice roll and result:
2 = Turkina
3 = Marauder IIC
4 = Warhammer IIC
5 = Man O'War / Gargoyle
6 = Gladiator / Executioner
7 = Man O'War / Gargoyle
8 = Gladiator / Executioner
9 = Gladiator / Executioner
10 = Daishi / Dire Wolf
11 = Masakari / Warhawk
12 = Kraken / Bane

That gives 1 in 36 / 2.78% probability of a Turkina, versus 1 in 12 / 8.33% probability of a Warhawk, so the Warhawk is about 3 times more common than the Turkina for CJF in 3048-3052 time frame, using those RATs.

Funny I didn't think they used Executioners as much as they apparently do, but given their style it is not surprising in the least. Like I said, they like mobile jumping things.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 March 2017 - 11:22 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Zergling, on 29 March 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

2D6 dice roll and result:
2 = Turkina
3 = Marauder IIC
4 = Warhammer IIC
5 = Man O'War / Gargoyle
6 = Gladiator / Executioner
7 = Man O'War / Gargoyle
8 = Gladiator / Executioner
9 = Gladiator / Executioner
10 = Daishi / Dire Wolf
11 = Masakari / Warhawk
12 = Kraken / Bane

That gives 1 in 36 / 2.78% probability of a Turkina, versus 1 in 12 / 8.33% probability of a Warhawk, so the Warhawk is about 3 times more common than the Turkina for CJF in 3048-3052 time frame, using those RATs.

So.. then the RAT says the Executioner/Gargoyle are actually the most common CJF assaults? lol

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

So.. then the RAT says the Executioner/Gargoyle are actually the most common CJF assaults? lol

You would be surprised at how low some of the exclusively held mechs are used among certain Clans.

What they create often does not match their combat ethos and several CJF designs sadly fall into that category.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 March 2017 - 11:27 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 March 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

You would be surprised at how low some of the exclusively held mechs are used among certain Clans.

What they create often does not match their combat ethos and several CJF designs sadly fall into that category.

Yeah.. too bad. Still would be nice to have a different 95 tonner available. Its similar to a Dire, but less podspace, but higher mounts and HoverJets. *shrugs* I would play it in non-comp matches frequently.

[Zergling]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

So.. then the RAT says the Executioner/Gargoyle are actually the most common CJF assaults? lol

Looks like it. And the Dire Wolf would be more common than the Warhawk.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

Yeah.. too bad. Still would be nice to have a different 95 tonner available. Its similar to a Dire, but less podspace, but higher mounts and HoverJets. *shrugs* I would play it in non-comp matches frequently.

I'd rather PGI just make up their own 95 tonner for the Clans unless we plan on jumping to post-jihad (Hellstar and Cygnus) soon simply because of the lack of 95 tonners (specifically for Clans).

[Valdarion Silarius]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 March 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

I'd rather PGI just make up their own 95 tonner for the Cla....

Can we not please?

[WarHippy]

I have long wanted the Jupiter.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Arnold The Governator, on 29 March 2017 - 11:42 AM, said:

Can we not please?

I mean, there are a total of 5 Clan 95 tonners in the BT universe, 3 of which are post-Jihad, 1 we already have in the game, and that leaves the Turkina which is just full of meh. Keeping in mind the only 2 in timeline are also Omnimechs, which means we won't have a 95 ton Clan Battlemech for a long time. Not really a fan of PGI creating their own stuff, but I wouldn't be aversed to them doing it just this once for the Clans this time around since we already have the Roughneck (which is at least lore based).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 March 2017 - 11:50 AM.

[Clanner Scum]

The Jupiter is the only falcon assault I like. The others are very meh.

I want the Blood Asp and the Canis the most.

Edited by Clanner Scum, 29 March 2017 - 11:55 AM.

[Zergling]

So, because I'm bored and have way too much time on my hands, I started counting the numbers of each mech in the Jade Falcon Sourcebook's Table of Organisation and Equipment.

So far I've only gone the Turkina Keshik and Jade Falcon Galaxy, but that's around 7 Clusters and 327 mechs in total.

Lights: 46 in total
Kit Fox = 33
Adder = 6
Mist Lynx = 3
Fire Falcon = 2
Fire Moth = 2

Mediums: 30 in total
Stormcrow = 9
Ice Ferret = 8
Nova = 6
Black Lanner = 5
Viper = 2

Heavies: 173 in total
Summoner = 86
Hellbringer = 54
Mad Dog = 16
Timber Wolf = 11
Night Gyr = 6

Assaults: 78 in total
Executioner = 21
Gargoyle = 19
Warhawk = 17
Dire Wolf = 17
Turkina = 4

As mentioned previously, the Turkina, Night Gyr, Black Lanner and Fire Falcon ONLY appear in the Turkina Keshik, which is just a single Cluster, although it had a command Star for 50 mechs total.
The top 3 mechs are unsurprisingly the Summoner, Hellbringer and Kit Fox. There doesn't seem any great preference for an assault mech out of the 4 original Clan assault omnis.

Not much in the way of mediums, and all the Clusters have been rather 'heavy' on heavy mechs. I'm pretty sure there's some Clusters with a great deal more light mechs later in the book.

Edited by Zergling, 29 March 2017 - 12:00 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 March 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

I mean, there are a total of 5 Clan 95 tonners in the BT universe, 3 of which are post-Jihad, 1 we already have in the game, and that leaves the Turkina which is just full of meh. Keeping in mind the only 2 in timeline are also Omnimechs, which means we won't have a 95 ton Clan Battlemech for a long time. Not really a fan of PGI creating their own stuff, but I wouldn't be aversed to them doing it just this once for the Clans this time around since we already have the Roughneck (which is at least lore based).

I mean its not that meh. There is meh and then there is meh. The Dire Wolf could be considered meh by current Clan assault standards.

And the Turkina does bring something newish in the form of LRM boating (which I will agree is meh) and ATM boating, which actually could be kind of cool.

I would rather they just release the Turkina as the 95 tonner and call it good. We have Clan assaults ranging from meh to god-tier currently, not sure we really need to keep piling on the God-Tier.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 11:59 AM, said:

I mean its not that meh. There is meh and then there is meh. The Dire Wolf could be considered meh by current Clan assault standards.

It is meh, except the Turkina is even more meh given the limited space and tonnage locked up in hover jets. Not to mention it would potentially be wide like the King Crab which does not bode well either.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 March 2017 - 12:03 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Zergling, on 29 March 2017 - 11:59 AM, said:

Assaults: 78 in total
Executioner = 21
Gargoyle = 19
Warhawk = 17
Dire Wolf = 17
Turkina = 4

Well, I do love me my Executioner...