75 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFire55]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 31 March 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

That sounds correct, one level roughly corresponds to half the height of a mech.

It does not, because 2 levels of cover always gives you only partial cover, for any type of mech.

[justcallme A S H]

BigBenn, on 30 March 2017 - 05:24 AM, said:

I cant remember the last time I saw the the premiere IS assault mech with JJ's in a match. That should tell everyone something.

This is a perfect example how PGI could give a mech that is known for their specific weapon, role, ability, etc, to be given quirk to elevate that mech in that role, to encourage that mech to utilize their unique-ness.

The Highlander is one of the those mechs that could seriously benefit from enhanced JJ's, otherwise... the JJ's are left in the hanger.

Yep one thing the game needs is more poptarting Clan Mech PPFLD.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 03 April 2017 - 01:24 AM.

[xengk]

for performing the Dropbear Maneuver

Edited by xengk, 03 April 2017 - 02:21 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

PhoenixFire55, on 03 April 2017 - 01:23 AM, said:

It does not, because 2 levels of cover always gives you only partial cover, for any type of mech.

1 level gives you 50% cover, so it does make quite a bit of sense, pretty sure 2 levels removes it from LoS. Would need to go into megamek to confirm but pretty sure those are the rules.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 03 April 2017 - 06:59 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 April 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

1 level gives you 50% cover, so it does make quite a bit of sense, pretty sure 2 levels removes it from LoS. Would need to go into megamek to confirm but pretty sure those are the rules.

There is no such thing as % cover, there is no cover, partial cover and full cover. 1 level of terrain difference gives partial cover, same as 2 levels and even 3 levels (given both mechs are on the same level). Beyond that I don't remember exactly, but I think 5 levels is where full cover starts. Regardless, as I've said, you can make 20 levels elevation jumps in pretty much any JJ-capable mech.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

PhoenixFire55, on 03 April 2017 - 07:19 AM, said:

There is no such thing as % cover, there is no cover, partial cover and full cover.

There is a difference between 25% cover (gives a to-hit modifier with no damage protection) and 50% cover (to-hit modifier and damage protection). Whether these are newer rules that got included in megamek, idk, but I'm pretty sure those are both in (I think both are considered partial cover, but they behave differently).

PhoenixFire55, on 03 April 2017 - 07:19 AM, said:

Beyond that I don't remember exactly, but I think 5 levels is where full cover starts.

Now I'm pretty sure we are talking about different things because I know it is less than 5 levels to hide a mech from LOS.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 03 April 2017 - 07:22 AM.

[Necro Ash]

pg 23, Battletech rulebook
Terrain along the LOS between two ’Mechs intervenes if:
- The level of the terrain or feature is equal to or higher than the level of both ’Mechs; or
- The level of the terrain or feature is equal to or higher than the attacker’s level and adjacent to it
(regardless of the level the target is on); or
- The level of the terrain or feature is equal to or higher than the target’s level and adjacent
to it (regardless of the level the attacker is on).

It only takes 2 levels of terrain to block LOS in Battletech if both mechs are on level ground

As a side note, it also only takes 2 JJ Units for *any* mech to make that jump. An assault with 4 JJ should be able to scale the height of canyon network without an issue.

I honestly believe the JJ tweaking has entirely been about poptarting, which could be solved easily by keeping the shake through the entire jump. Wouldn't this make JJ's a omre movement oriented, less tactical item ?

[Hit the Deck]

The Executioner has pretty much "TT rule correct" jumping capability (24m vertical and 120m horizontal, though with a MASC'ed running start).

[Snowbluff]

Necro Ash, on 03 April 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

pg 23, Battletech rulebook
Terrain along the LOS between two ’Mechs intervenes if:
- The level of the terrain or feature is equal to or higher than the level of both ’Mechs; or
- The level of the terrain or feature is equal to or higher than the attacker’s level and adjacent to it
(regardless of the level the target is on); or
- The level of the terrain or feature is equal to or higher than the target’s level and adjacent
to it (regardless of the level the attacker is on).

It only takes 2 levels of terrain to block LOS in Battletech if both mechs are on level ground

As a side note, it also only takes 2 JJ Units for *any* mech to make that jump. An assault with 4 JJ should be able to scale the height of canyon network without an issue.

I honestly believe the JJ tweaking has entirely been about poptarting, which could be solved easily by keeping the shake through the entire jump. Wouldn't this make JJ's a omre movement oriented, less tactical item ?

This and maybe greatly increase the duration of the assault JJ. Give them the same height but it takes more time to get there.

[Mystere]

Paigan, on 30 March 2017 - 08:18 AM, said:

The current JJs are perfect as they are.

They are not if the premier Mechs that are supposed to use them are nowhere to be seen in drops.

[Mystere]

Necro Ash, on 30 March 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

So if lack of Assault JJ is a fear of the poptarting, and how much poptarting is a meta tactic; should we be debating poptarting instead and how to improve/adjust it to be not such controlling tactical advantage ?

Make jump jets actually jump forward a significant amount.

Better yet, give them the same significant forward bias but make them directionally controllable by a small degree at the same time. That would make for some interesting jump vectors.

[MechWarrior9376871]

I will put one jj on a heavy to help get up hills...

PGI has made jump jets completely useless on heavies, lights and assaults. Mediums can actually jump higher than 3 ft though.

[Kaethir]

JJs do really help with maneuverability on assaults, and occasionally with getting into positions where people don't generally find an assault.

That being said, I didn't miss them much when I went from a DWF with them to a DWF without them.

The only kill I've gotten while falling in a DWF, poptart attempt or otherwise, was dropping off the center in HPGManifold to one of the ramps and hitting someone in the face on the way down with 2x Gauss/2x ER PPC.

[Khobai]

Quote

Make jump jets actually jump forward a significant amount.

Better yet, give them the same significant forward bias but make them directionally controllable by a small degree at the same time. That would make for some interesting jump vectors.

jumpjets (or at the very least improved jumpjets when theyre added) should be fully vectored and let you jump in any direction by the full amount

jumpjets (or Imp. JJs) should have 8 thrust directions: up, down, left, right, forward, backward, turn left, and turn right

combine that with getting rid of the exponential losses on additional jumpjets and reward people properly for maxing out jumpjets and I think jumpjets would become more interesting.

Edited by Khobai, 03 April 2017 - 10:22 AM.

[Mechteric]

Paigan, on 30 March 2017 - 08:18 AM, said:

I never got those strange people who whine about "Hoverjets". This is no japanase toy robot game where everything can fly like a plane. The current JJs are perfect as they are. Only the locked ones are annoying.

We wouldn't expect them to "jump" if they weren't called jump jets. Nobody expects them to fly.

Just look at how jump jets worked in Mechcommander or Mechwarrior Living Legends for what we want them to be like.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 03 April 2017 - 10:29 AM.

[R Valentine]

Ah yes. Nothing shakes up the meta more than adding more clan poptarts to it.