59 replies to this topic

[Lorcryst NySell]

Biggest problems, IMHO, are "entitlement" and "unrealistic expectations" ...

When, like me, you have slogged through the first six months of a game that wasn't finished, AND that you had to pay to play, AND that was down for most of the month due to emergency patches (the first year of Ultima Online was horrible ... the saying "on patch day, don't play" comes from that), MWO is surprisingly stable, and PGI does a stellar job of maintaining and updating the game.

It could be soooo much worse ... and for some games that are around for 10+ years, some of them ARE much worse !

That said, I'm old and cranky most of the time, but my years have taught me the virtues of "patience" and "don't expect much, that way you'll be surprised".

But yes, to go back to the Original Post, $260 is a lot ... if, and only if, you want all four packages and all the bonuses ... I did, I paid, I'm happy.

That just means that I won't buy any Warhammer Age of Sigmar minis this month

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Lorcryst NySell, on 01 April 2017 - 10:44 PM, said:

I Actually, I want to support PGI and MWO with my money, and I'd be totally OK to pay a monthly subscription to this game.

If you want support PGI and kill the game at the same time, then that would be a good idea

[Rogue Jedi]

Lorcryst NySell, on 02 April 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

Free To Play has created a slew of "entitled" players that never had to pay for the privilege of login in, and now they moan about every single expense ...

But once more, without a cash flow, a game studio is DEAD ... and their games too.

I completely agree.
My problem with this most recent pack is it is significantly worse value than any previous pack ^{(every previous pack had premium time at the base level)} and even if you did usualy buy the collectors pack you are down to 1 months premium rather than 2, all the previous multi Mech packs had premium varients included in the base pack price, this has nether so it is worse value than any previous pack, if packs had started without premium time or premium varients this would not be a problem, but they did so taking it away is seen as a ripoff
thus myself, and I would guess many other players are less likely to spend, potentialy endangering PGIs cashflow and the future of MWO.

the most iritating part is that now the only way to get premium time with a pack is to pay for the "collectors edition" with the premium Mech, both of which used to be part of the basic pack, but also that meens you get a duplicate of a varient, unfortunately the preimum varient is often not the one I prefer so in several cases I have ended up with duplicates of "bad" varients, meaning the only time I would buy a collectors pack now is if the premium varient has become one of my "go to Mechs".

a far better way to do it would be to put the cost of the Hero up to $20 and include premium time with the Hero, if they also wanted an extra addon what about $10 to add the special edition cammo, cbill bonus and letter in brackets to your choice of chassis in the pack, and allow you to purchase for each varient (assuming you have the base pack) to apply to all none hero varients if you are prepaired to spend, potentialy adding upto $105 per chassis for; basic pack with 3 chassis (including a month premium time) + hero (including a month premium time) + 2 reinforcements + upgrading all 5 non hero varients to have the cbill bonus.

Now that special varients do not have unique geometry there should be no problem putting the collectors edition cammo as an extra skin for the chassis, and I cannot imagine putting the 30% cbill boost and adding a letter in brackets to the varient would be that hard, worst case just copy the base Mech data and add in an entry for the (S) or whatever the special varents end up being.

edit:
just to stress, I am someone who has spent a lot of money on MWO, I own all the multi Mech packs, only 2 of them were not at top level because I knew I would not like the assualt, I also own at least the basic pack for most of the single Mech packs, and have purchased a reasionable ammount of MC as well, I have invested well over £1000 into MWO and unless PGI manage to completely destroy the game I will keep investing when I can, it is just that the reduced value for money is making it harder for me to justify spending.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 02 April 2017 - 01:49 PM.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Tesunie, on 01 April 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

Yes. That is correct. $70+$70+$70+$50 is $260. BUT, that gets you 20 mechs, 4 special mechs, 4 hero mechs, and 28 mechbays. Not to mention warhorns and other cockpit items, nor the colors and patterns, nor the decals, nor the C-bills if you order early. Oh, and the premium time as well...

Along with half of the premium time as previous mech packs.

[MadBomberMan]

Here's an idea...

...because I know firsthand the price of those invasion/resistance packs...for someone who has purchased those packs, offer a reduction in price for future packages.

The folks who buy these expensive digital vehicles are the ones who are going to keep the game going via enthusiasm and advertising (telling friends) so why not reward them?

[Tesunie]

What happened to this quiet little thread? I got to bed, get up, head to work, get home and BAM! Lots of responses here!

MechaBattler, on 01 April 2017 - 10:27 PM, said:

I'm thinking from a poor man's perspective. As someone who really has to weigh the purchase of mechs versus whole other games. The premium time was just an easy justification for doing so. Now I doubt I'll spring the cash for any of those mechs in any form. Shy of winning the lotto. At which point I would rather start my own game studio ;p

I can not blame you for your decision. Spending money on digital stuff is always a personal choice. I normally think long and hard before I spend money into a game (and MW:O has made me think a lot of times).

For me, it has nothing to do with premium time when I make a discussion. I have so much premium time store up from packs I've bought... that it's kinda depressing. (I probably could activate it and have months if not close to a year of premium!)

On things like this, I make my decision on if I think I would like the mech, and/or if I have nostalgia for the mech. The Crab was nostalgia and I figured I would like the mech. The Huntsmen was purely because the mech looked so cool and I already had 4-5 different build ideas for them. Linebacker was pure nostalgia, and I didn't get as much out of that one...

So, whatever it is that makes your choices. I know that there are often "too many good games, not enough time to play them all".

Toha Heavy Industries, on 02 April 2017 - 02:01 AM, said:

I was really agitated, i haven't bought a pack but i did bought a lot of MC for about 10 heros. I spent a lot more cash on MC then i would have needed to buy 3-4 basic packs (which would have given me several "loyality" rewards.
Instead i "only" got the potatoe blackjack.
That is something PGI really needs to look into next time. It can't be that 100$ MC is "meh" and 80$ packs is "omg, thank you for supporting the game!!".
I honestly felt like a 2nd rate customer.

I kinda saw the loyalty rewards as just free extra stuff, as a thank you for your support. It wasn't anything I planed on nor anticipated.

However, I do agree with you that some aspects of it seemed a little odd. You could purchase the basic and the Hero packs, but didn't count. But if you purchased the collector's packs, that counted. Even though each were almost the same values.

I wasn't going to complain about getting free stuff on top of stuff I wanted, but I'll agree that at the same time it didn't always seem fair...

Koniving, on 02 April 2017 - 04:41 AM, said:

2) PGI does not have a publisher, meaning not only do they need to make money to keep the lights on and the employees paid, but also to further the development of both multiplayer MWO and upcoming singleplayer MW5 Mercenaries. (The sales of which will again return to help develop MWO further). As it stands until MW5 Mercs is released, PGI is a development studio trying to survive on a single game. No studio has ever done that and cannot do it for long. As such you're going to see lots of mechpacks to try and get more purchases to help them keep going until they can at least get that second game into the field.

Do recall what happens every time PGI attempts to produce a new game though... People start complaining, saying stuff like "Your money you spend in MW:O will only support that game" or "PGI will abandon MW:O completely now". I agree that gaming companies do need to produce more than a single game, but some of the "bittervets" just wont let it happen. You know, the professionally dissatisfied crowd who seems to have stopped playing years ago, but continue to this day to give PGI bad ratings for things that are wrong in the game (and typically been fixed years ago).

Rogue Jedi, on 02 April 2017 - 04:51 AM, said:

the "gold Mech" origionaly was supposed to just be for a single gold Mech, IGP (the publisher at the time) eventuraly caved to bad press and put the Masakari (Warhawk) pack in there as well, but when the page was first released it was most certainly $500 for the gold Mech and an extra $240 for the Masakari pack if you wanted it.

in 2014/2015 PGI were increasing the value of the packs, now they are reducing them, and have reduced the value to less than the mid 2013 Phoenix pack, Resistance 2 was the best value pack with extra varients on the early adoptor bouns, $20 per tier, top tier ($80) if ordered before the cutoff giving 16 varients, 16 Mechs total, 4 each of 4 chassis, one of which was had unique cammo and a cbill bonus, 2 months premium time, 36 paints, 6 cammos unlocked for the Mechs purchased with the packs and 18 cockpit items.
Compaired to $80 spent on Civil war giving 12 Mechs, no premium time, no cbill boost varient.

I am currently out of work so unless I find a new job and get my first pay packet before the end of april I will not be preordering any Mechs from the civil war pack, if I was in work I would definately buy the Uziel and probably also the Mad Cat MK2, basic packs, but if they were offering premium time and a special varient with the standard pack and I was able to afford to do so I would have definately purchased all the Mechs, by reducing the value of the packs PGI are almost definately loosing sales they would have made otherwise, I do not know if those are countered by the people who are spending more.

sorry about the minor rant

I think it was wise of IGP (and PGI?) to include the full clan pack in the Gold mech purchase. It kinda... made sense?

I agree with your consensus here. I have noticed the drop in value as well. I don't like paying for an extra mech (of a variant I'm going to already get) that has the C-bill boost. I feel that should be basic with the pack, as the C-bill boosting mechs are typically why I purchase the packs myself.


Sorry to hear about your work situation. I wish you luck finding new and even better employment!

Lorcryst NySell, on 02 April 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

That just means that I won't buy any Warhammer Age of Sigmar minis this month

Wait. People actually PLAY Age of Fail... I MEAN Age of Sigmar! Totally...

Sorry. I'm still a little bitter with GW for the stab in the back. Purchasing all those end times books and models, only to have it all thrown in my face with rules that had no point values and made most of my army irrelevant. Don't mind the additional game format, but they could have easily kept the two going together, or at least kept the square bases on the older kits instead of forcing them all to round (with the same exact model kits inside).

Sorry again. Small rant. Still a little sore from that...

[TooDumbToQuit]

Tesunie, on 01 April 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

Yes. That is correct. $70+$70+$70+$50 is $260. BUT, that gets you 20 mechs, 4 special mechs, 4 hero mechs, and 28 mechbays. Not to mention warhorns and other cockpit items, nor the colors and patterns, nor the decals, nor the C-bills if you order early. Oh, and the premium time as well...

This is more than I spent on my refurnished PC that I''m playing this game on. It is about double our light bill. Let's see, $260 x 3 is $760.00 which is about $20 more than the disability I live on. It is about the same amount that they want to rebuild the carburetor on my old truck. It is the cost o......

Well, now I just depressed myself. I'm going to lie down and pull the covers over my head.

[TooDumbToQuit]

If I may, here is the thing with "free to play" games. They cost real money to "play better with more". If you look at all of them you can play with the basic ship or tank or mechs. But as PGI reminds you at the end of every match, you could of made 50% more C-Bills and experience if you had Premium Time. If you do not pay for it, you have to play 50% more than another player to match him or her.

I remember when I started I foolishly thought PT only ran while you play. Doing very rough math, a month of PT is 720 hours. But most people cannot play 24 hours a day so 4 hours a day would be 120 hours. I often just grind, not really playing well or
worrying about it because I can feel my clock running.

But EverQuest was worse. I used to call it EverBuy. They also a a whole preorder thing that was much worse then MWO. Without a preorder of a expansion, you would NEVER get certain weapons, armor, spells etc etc. Plus the people who did it could play the new part a week ahead of you at twice the XP.

So...it could be worse...I wish they simply charged $20.00 a month and took away the boosters. It would give them a more even cash flow and would IMO, be more honest.

[Tesunie]

LikeUntoGod, on 02 April 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

If I may, here is the thing with "free to play" games. They cost real money to "play better with more". If you look at all of them you can play with the basic ship or tank or mechs. But as PGI reminds you at the end of every match, you could of made 50% more C-Bills and experience if you had Premium Time. If you do not pay for it, you have to play 50% more than another player to match him or her.

I remember when I started I foolishly thought PT only ran while you play. Doing very rough math, a month of PT is 720 hours. But most people cannot play 24 hours a day so 4 hours a day would be 120 hours. I often just grind, not really playing well or
worrying about it because I can feel my clock running.

But EverQuest was worse. I used to call it EverBuy. They also a a whole preorder thing that was much worse then MWO. Without a preorder of a expansion, you would NEVER get certain weapons, armor, spells etc etc. Plus the people who did it could play the new part a week ahead of you at twice the XP.

So...it could be worse...I wish they simply charged $20.00 a month and took away the boosters. It would give them a more even cash flow and would IMO, be more honest.

Here is where I disagree (with some of what you said).

I don't really find the need for premium, as I'm willing to put more time into the game,as I have some time to do so. I also don't mind occasionally purchasing a mech pack or two to help support PGI, as I've felt the game has earned some of my money. Thus, the 50% boosts often isn't very needed for me. (I also have "project" mechs, ones I'm leveling up. 50% more exp just means I don't get to play it as much before my project is finished...)

As for the "the clock is ticking" feeling, I agree. But I also get that with any premium or monthly subscription. I don't mind a very low ($5 or less) subscription, but I don't like feeling locked into it either. That is honestly one of the reasons I've loved MW:O so much. It's free to play, so I have no commitment to purchase anything, but it's good enough that I'm willing to place some money into the game as well, when I choose.

If they did a subscription to play this game, I can say I'd probably sadly have to leave then. Student loans tends to eat up a lot of my money, and I save a lot just to afford what I do get.


I mean, I don't want to "shun" your opinion, as it is just your insight into the situation. We just have different opinions and preferences on the subject (which is fine).

[Koniving]

Tesunie, on 02 April 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

Do recall what happens every time PGI attempts to produce a new game though... People start complaining, saying stuff like "Your money you spend in MW:O will only support that game" or "PGI will abandon MW:O completely now". I agree that gaming companies do need to produce more than a single game, but some of the "bittervets" just wont let it happen. You know, the professionally dissatisfied crowd who seems to have stopped playing years ago, but continue to this day to give PGI bad ratings for things that are wrong in the game (and typically been fixed years ago).

I'm one of those professionally dissatisfied people. I don't bother with ratings and do agree PGI has improved significantly, but as much as I want to love the game... the way it feels is really off compared to what it was trying to be and just as importantly compared to what it felt like when I fell in love with it back in closed beta. I think mistakes were made at the very beginning that PGI can never hope to fix as they are within the fundamental foundation of the game and its design.

The naysayers will always exist. But that doesn't mean they will keep PGI from making more games provided that progress is made. One thing to remember is that at the time there were two big things. 1) Almost zero progress had actually been made on MWO in almost two years. 2) PGI's idea of a new game was set in the Wing Commander universe and its fundraising scheme was almost identical to Chris Robert's Star Citizen and was within months of the 500 dollar gold mech thing, just after shedding IGP. It was a very, very bad time.

Their current new game's announcement both came as a surprise and with a lot of cheer.
I think more importantly, you can match their claims of features for MW5 Mercs up from the 'gameplay' performance demo that they used as the trailer (by using actual in-game footage while playing the game) with the things they said they were going to deliver. Right down to how the tech's speech was broken up for giving you the status of your mech.

"Ah lets see..." (Pause.)
"Reactor output is looking steady." (Engine is fine.) Pause.
"Yep, that left actuator is acting up again." (Left arm actuator is damaged; apparently it's been damaged on the last run too.)
"You've got no long range missiles." (Ammo report.) "We're running low on cash." (Reason the ammo hasn't been replenished.)

Each one is accompanied with a loading-like pause and are disjointed just enough to know that they were not recorded in one sitting, as if each line of dialogue could change to reflect a line of status of your given mech. (If just recording a load of spiel for a cool sounding trailer it'd all be done in a single sitting and made to sound fluid). The sandbox-like nature that PGI described of the game as a whole (in their inspiration from the very first Mechwarrior game which was also a sandbox of generated missions for infinite replay value) supports that they would use this method. So basically they are putting their money where their mouth is for once and in that trailer, it already looks better and has many of the things the professionally dissatisfied have been asking from PGI for ages (including the use of the Unreal engine, headbob, R&R, Reactor breach.). So if anyone has been wondering what Brian Eckman (Creative director of PGI who as far as we know hasn't touched MWO in nearly 2 years) has been doing, now you know. He's been shaping MW5: Mercs.)

As such despite the disappointment MWO is, I'm optimistic about MW5.

Edited by Koniving, 02 April 2017 - 05:40 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

MadBomberMan, on 01 April 2017 - 08:05 PM, said:

Am I reading that correctly?

4 different types of mechs, 4 separate Ultimate Purchases totalling $260???

Worse if you're currency is crap, like AU's is
I've spent over $400 AUD or so, its probably more, I forget TBH. I purchased the K9 just for a laugh recently as I can see some hilarious drunk drops coming out of it... But otherwise I have/will not spent another cent and haven't in a long time.

For $80 I can get a AAA title from anyone. All are mostly well polished games with constant updates and adjustments.
For $400 on PGI I have a FPS that hasn't seen new maps in basically a year, failed 2 attempts to change the core mechanics of the game (ie, big waste of resources/time) etc etc. Plus FP, which is what I enjoy most, just gets worse and worse with each "upgrade" because the dev's are so out of touch with what should be happening.

So yeah, not spending another cent. Not like I can't afford to either, but enough is enough from my point of view. If things improved, my wallet would open, make no mistake about that. But, unfortunately, the problems are not going to go away as long as the structure/operation method of PGI stays as it is.

I play MRBC and other comp stuff, earn free MC that way (think I've made around 10,000MC in 12 months). Good enough for when the mechbay/hero sales come around

That said if people wanna buy mechpacks, go for it if you see the value in it.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 02 April 2017 - 05:30 PM.

[Tesunie]

Koniving, on 02 April 2017 - 05:16 PM, said:

As such despite the disappointment MWO is, I'm optimistic about MW5.

The difference between you and other people is, you keep yourself informed and you don't go spreading false information (at least not intentionally) to specifically hinder PGI (or anyone else's it seems) progress. You state the facts, as they are, good or bad.

Or so I've come to know you from these forums. I can't testify to anywhere else if you use a different user name.


As far as Transverse goes, it probably was bad timing. They just got ride of IGP, that probably should have turned that reputation IGP kinda gave them around first, then announce a new title in the works. (As it is though, people are saying that all money made by MW:O and work is being done on MW5 now, and that all progress is halting on MW:O. I don't see that so much... wouldn't make sense.) Ultimately, I'll let the actions of the past reflect on who is probably truly at fault through the evidence I know of. I mean, look at what IGP did to MW Tactics, among their other supported projects. Picked up without a word, with weeks (if not months) of no word about what was happening. (Unless, of course, I've been falsely informed.)


Edit: The MW5 project probably will turn out better, simply because it seems like they chose the base engine for the game. I suspect that IGP probably bought Cryengine, and PGI had to work with what they had... Of course, I could be completely wrong.

And, is it me, or should reactors not be "that hot" when just turning on? The heat up as energy is drawn from them. Plus, mechs lock their joints when shut down or without a pilot, so technically speaking, shouldn't it be standing straight up instead of squatting a little? (Maybe it's just me.)

Edited by Tesunie, 02 April 2017 - 05:39 PM.

[Tesunie]

justcallme A S H, on 02 April 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

That said if people wanna buy mechpacks, go for it if you see the value in it.

One can not argue with your reasons as to why or why you don't purchase stuff for the game. Your money. Your opinion.

I just wished more people would be like this. Too many people still try to harass others in the new mechs, or even in gold mechs. (So much so, that there is a specific rule not to do so.)

[Koniving]

Tesunie, on 02 April 2017 - 05:34 PM, said:

And, is it me, or should reactors not be "that hot" when just turning on? The heat up as energy is drawn from them. Plus, mechs lock their joints when shut down or without a pilot, so technically speaking, shouldn't it be standing straight up instead of squatting a little? (Maybe it's just me.)

I had thought about that. It's actually the heatsink vents blowing out heat, but correct it shouldn't be 'that' hot when getting 'warmed up' for use.
Far as the lock joints, I definitely believe it should apply when the mech is shut down in the field. (In fact the reason mechs typically have the potential to fall over is from shutting down in mid stride or while taking fire). I would think they need room for working on the mech though and squatting purposely would help with that so this is one of those things worth overlooking.

[justcallme A S H]

Tesunie, on 02 April 2017 - 05:42 PM, said:

One can not argue with your reasons as to why or why you don't purchase stuff for the game. Your money. Your opinion.

I just wished more people would be like this. Too many people still try to harass others in the new mechs, or even in gold mechs. (So much so, that there is a specific rule not to do so.)

100% man. I'm not gonna jump down peoples throats and say "don't buy a mechpack, bring PGI to their knees". It's just childish.

One of the guys in our unit has every mech, even the gold ones. Do I sit there and tell him he shouldn't be doing it? Lord no. His choice. (Plus, seeing a Gold mech walking out on ice maps is cool as fark)

Edited by justcallme A S H, 02 April 2017 - 06:15 PM.

[Tesunie]

justcallme A S H, on 02 April 2017 - 06:15 PM, said:

. (Plus, seeing a Gold mech walking out on ice maps is cool as fark)

I must admit... I don't believe I've ever seen a gold mech so far...

I would imagine it's shininess would be really cool looking.

[justcallme A S H]

If we are doing FP on a weekend we try get him into Goldies sometimes for a laugh.

It's a pretty picture, very very cool in the reflective gold.

[Lorcryst NySell]

Tesunie, on 02 April 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

Wait. People actually PLAY Age of Fail... I MEAN Age of Sigmar! Totally...

Sorry. I'm still a little bitter with GW for the stab in the back. Purchasing all those end times books and models, only to have it all thrown in my face with rules that had no point values and made most of my army irrelevant. Don't mind the additional game format, but they could have easily kept the two going together, or at least kept the square bases on the older kits instead of forcing them all to round (with the same exact model kits inside).

Sorry again. Small rant. Still a little sore from that...

Well, my gaming group being composed of a father, mother and son that want to roll dice and avoid thinking, we made the transition to AoS and it works for us, better than any previous edition ...

But yes, I pre-ordered the 5 End of Times books, and getting them nullified within months left a bitter taste in my throat ... still trying to sell my old GW stuff (back to the nineties on some cases) because I now have way too much minis (like my 380 Night Goblin Infantry, not counting Elite units ... more than 650 minis in that army, all painted, quite the labour of love).

Back to the thread now ...

[Lorcryst NySell]

Boogie138, on 02 April 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

If you want support PGI and kill the game at the same time, then that would be a good idea

Care to elaborate a bit on that ? I don't really understand what you are saying/writing ...

I'm used to monthly sub schemes, and I honestly don't think it would kill the game ... maybe the "Young Crowd" would go away because "I want it all, for free" would not be the case anymore ?

No offense meant, I'm just confused ...

[Dee Eight]

There are about fifty different existing packs and bundles which get you mechs AND premium time already in existence and they're not going away just because the new packs don't include premium as part of their standard pack structures anymore. I only started playing and spending money 15 months ago and I already have between currently active time, and banked time, enough premium time to last until 2019. It doesn't really matter to me that they're removing premium time from the standard packs. I look at it as PGI making up for the expenses incurred developing a new skill tree system and then having to shelve in for three months because of a few dozen complainers. We WERE supposed to have the new tree implemented six weeks ago, and then they'd have been able to adopt a new pack system that didn't rely on 3 variant rules any longer. The javelins were supposed to be the last pack under that old system, and now that's also been shelved.

Edited by Dee Eight, 02 April 2017 - 09:45 PM.