188 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 April 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

I would still pay cash for early access/c-bill bonus rather than paying 50 million c-bills for access to the mech. If we can't use them in ranked play or competitive leagues, there isn't that much of a point to them being good.

I doubt the pub queue will take this lightly.

[FireStoat]

I honestly don't get the outrage over the issue. PGI's had a track record of releasing a new mech with several variants with one of them being a Hero. The Reinforcements always have something cool behind the paywall of having to get it additionally, and then the Hero usually has something cool to entice people to buy it.

The short of it is - if mechs like the Mad Dog or Ebon Jaguar weren't in the game and were being introduced JUST NOW with the Heroes being a part of the 'new' package, no one would care. Because omnimechs like the Huntsman were introduced in the manner described above and NO ONE cared that the Pakhet had the shoulder missile pods. Yes, people wanted them, but they could build a mech closely matching what they wanted without it. That's the deal with most of these new mechs. Yes, you want the pods, but you can make a mech work without them.

This thread is pure hypocrisy because the Huntsman, Supernova, and other omnimech releases have already proven what I'm saying.

Edited by FireStoat, 05 April 2017 - 08:30 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

z3a1ot, on 05 April 2017 - 01:05 AM, said:

This should not come as a surprise. PGI needs more revenue. Take Maraouder 2C or Supernova heroes, they are the best mechs hidden behind paywall. This trend might continue.

I'm sorry, but that's relative as the SuperNova kinda blows.

[Dee Eight]

JackalBeast, on 05 April 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but that's relative as the SuperNova kinda blows.

Supernova is also a battlemech, not an omnimech. Clan Omni's released the past year have been the viper, huntsman, night gyr, linebacker and wave 1 heroes. The next Clan Omnis aren't until the civil war packs in July.

[FireStoat]

Dee Eight, on 05 April 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

Supernova is also a battlemech, not an omnimech.

Very good catch, my mistake. I guess my long winded rant boils down to - Clan Hero Omnimechs have been introduced into the game with unique pods either on their own or as part of pack releases, and the player base appears to be random in responding with whether it's an issue or not. Why should PGI take the matter seriously?

Edited by FireStoat, 05 April 2017 - 09:15 AM.

[Mcgral18]

FireStoat, on 05 April 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

I honestly don't get the outrage over the issue. PGI's had a track record of releasing a new mech with several variants with one of them being a Hero. The Reinforcements always have something cool behind the paywall of having to get it additionally, and then the Hero usually has something cool to entice people to buy it.

The short of it is - if mechs like the Mad Dog or Ebon Jaguar weren't in the game and were being introduced JUST NOW with the Heroes being a part of the 'new' package, no one would care. Because omnimechs like the Huntsman were introduced in the manner described above and NO ONE cared that the Pakhet had the shoulder missile pods. Yes, people wanted them, but they could build a mech closely matching what they wanted without it. That's the deal with most of these new mechs. Yes, you want the pods, but you can make a mech work without them.

This thread is pure hypocrisy because the Huntsman, Supernova, and other omnimech releases have already proven what I'm saying.

You are wrong

There was concern whenever a Hero was notably better than their Cbill counterparts. Even quirks, as seen with the BJ arrow AC20 (now mg quirks)

The Missile huntsman was paywalled for months, as it was Reinf and Hero exclusive, now we can get enough missiles to be worthwhile, so it's less of a concern (bc hero trades lasers for Missiles)

The coming Heroes have NO trade offs for many of the pods, straight up improvement for $$
You cannot make the Myth Lynx work without the torso E, it's a bad Gundam
Fridge, unless it loses leg quirks with the Jesus Box, gains a fair bit at the cost of a heatsink ( he is oversinked in the SPL config)

Purifier was annoying, and obviously set the precedent. Pay $$ for better robots

[1453 R]

Are you willing to let Sphere/BattleMech Heroes also go for C-bills?

Are you willing to pay exhorbitant prices for them? 50m C-bills sounds like a decent start point?

I understand the concern, but most of the reason Heroes sell is because they have options not otherwise available to the regular public. This is an issue for Omnis given Omni rules, but it's not an inherent issue since pods should ideally be balanced amongst themselves anyways, the way Piranha tried for a while with up and down pod quirks before the playerbase flipped one too many tables.

Nevertheless. Remember the polls for the Phoenix pack and whether people were okay with Piranha reneging on the Phoenix 'Mechs' exclusivity? Remember how a majority of the playerbase rose up and said "NO F*** YOU YOU SAID EXCLUSIVE I WANT EXCLUSIVE!!1!"

Same deal with offering C-bill Hero platforms, especially C-bill hero platforms for the next best thing to free. I don't mind the idea so much myself, but even I'd be a little irritated if all the heroes I've shelled out for in the past were suddenly introduced for free in the game at standard C-bill prices as just another regular variant anyone could buy in twenty minutes' gameplay.

The Phoenix folks who bit and clawed and spat and gnashed and chewed and pitched the mightiest of fits over their exclusivity being breached? Those guys would burn the world down if Heroes went on sale in the C-bill shop.

[Andi Nagasia]

as long as they are balanced properly i dont see a problem,
that said i do think Hero OmniPods should be Available perhaps for MC,

most MLXs are worth 6,000,000,
OmniPods are worth 350,000 x 7(number of Pods per Mech) = 2,450,000,
2,450,000, / 6,000,000 = 40.8 lets say 41% the worth of the Mech (or 5.9% per OmniPod)
2,500MC for a MLX, so a Hero OmniPod should cost 150MC(lets Double that, 300MC)

i think 300MC per Hero OmniPod is Fair,

[TKSax]

1453 R, on 05 April 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

The Phoenix folks who bit and clawed and spat and gnashed and chewed and pitched the mightiest of fits over their exclusivity being breached? Those guys would burn the world down if Heroes went on sale in the C-bill shop.

You would be wrong because letting hero Omnis or battlemechs in the game for stills would be just like the phoniex mechs or any other special variant.

[Y E O N N E]

Xetelian, on 05 April 2017 - 02:39 AM, said:

I don't see the problem.

1 ballistic point on the EBJ where there wasn't one previously just makes it able to do what a JM6 can already do, or a CPLT-K2.

Yeah, at 87.1 kph...without explosive engines...perhaps with some complementary lasers, even.

So, really, nothing like a JM6 or CPLT-K2. Not like anything in the game, actually.

[Gas Guzzler]

JackalBeast, on 05 April 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but that's relative as the SuperNova kinda blows.

It doesn't blow at all... I've found even the non-heroes to be perfectly strong mechs.

[panzer1b]

I think i know the one and only solution to hero clan mechs that would keep them unique/viable but not make them (the omnis at least) blatant P2W. Lock the hardpoints and make it so that the hero omnis have to use all of the hardpoints they ship with and no ability to take the best pods out of the normal models and mix them with hero pods.

This is honestly the only way i think it could be done while still leaving incentives to use the heroes. Opening the hero pods to everyone would make buying a hero pointless since you can make a hero like mech using the CBill pods, while keeping them as is results in P2W since many of the new hero pod setups make bad mechs useable and render powerful mechs even more powerful.

I know nomatter what is done someone will complain, those that are F2P will blast P2W nomatter what happens, and those that buy these heroes will yell that PGI is ruining their OP super optimized mechs, but my solution would at least make it fair to have hero mechs alongside regular ones, you just wont be able to use the other omnipods in the heroes to keep them as sidegrades and not flat out upgrades...

[Battlemaster56]

Andi Nagasia, on 05 April 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

as long as they are balanced properly i dont see a problem,
that said i do think Hero OmniPods should be Available perhaps for MC,

most MLXs are worth 6,000,000,
OmniPods are worth 350,000 x 7(number of Pods per Mech) = 2,450,000,
2,450,000, / 6,000,000 = 40.8 lets say 41% the worth of the Mech (or 5.9% per OmniPod)
2,500MC for a MLX, so a Hero OmniPod should cost 150MC(lets Double that, 300MC)

i think 300MC per Hero OmniPod is Fair,

This I can get behind with rather than having the be available for cbills after a certain wait period. As I see no purpose buying a hero if I can wait for their pods to be out for cbills. And it gives purpose for buying mc (that I find at times expensive) and using other than more mech bays or that one hero you wait for a sale, or collect dust.

[Battlemaster56]

panzer1b, on 05 April 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

I think i know the one and only solution to hero clan mechs that would keep them unique/viable but not make them (the omnis at least) blatant P2W. Lock the hardpoints and make it so that the hero omnis have to use all of the hardpoints they ship with and no ability to take the best pods out of the normal models and mix them with hero pods.

That defeat the whole purpose of the omni system, you basically have a locked mech that you can't optimize at all. Their will be no point picking them up as they will be useless and a waste of money just to pick up.

[Jackal Noble]

^
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Ok fine, or open up the omnipods for general pop, but give some kick *** bonuses for the pods when the are on heroes.
Because honestly....honestly what other way can be used to give the playerbase some actual incentive to buy these things if everyone gets them. No one, that's who.

Edited by JackalBeast, 05 April 2017 - 10:40 AM.

[Sniper09121986]

Mcgral18, on 05 April 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

You cannot make the Myth Lynx work without the torso E, it's a bad Gundam

WTF are you going on about? Gundams are Word of Blake http://www.sarna.net...elestial_series omnimechs, Clan mechs are destroids

Andi Nagasia, on 05 April 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

as long as they are balanced properly i dont see a problem,
that said i do think Hero OmniPods should be Available perhaps for MC,

most MLXs are worth 6,000,000,
OmniPods are worth 350,000 x 7(number of Pods per Mech) = 2,450,000,
2,450,000, / 6,000,000 = 40.8 lets say 41% the worth of the Mech (or 5.9% per OmniPod)
2,500MC for a MLX, so a Hero OmniPod should cost 150MC(lets Double that, 300MC)

i think 300MC per Hero OmniPod is Fair,

So much this! There are so many heroes out there that we need only one omnipod or two from since all the rest is either duplicated or otherwise unnecessary. We still pay IRL cash but we get exactly what we need without overpaying, and we can still buy the full hero config for CBill earnings. Somebody please tweet Russ about it, because this seems to be the only way to resolve this argument with any kind of fairness and cohesion both for us and PGI who do need to pay their own bills after all.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

JackalBeast, on 05 April 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

Ok fine, or open up the omnipods for general pop, but give some kick *** bonuses for the pods when the are on heroes.

So you want the potential for P2W to still be there......how about no (unless we are talking non-gameplay oriented bonuses).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 05 April 2017 - 11:10 AM.

[process]

Pay to optimize? Sure.
Power creep? Sure.

P2W? No. There's nothing outstanding about any of the exclusive omnipods that will suddenly catapult these mechs to top tier. Other chassis can already pull off the builds that are being speculated, and better. Maybe if you compared these heroes 1v1 with F2P builds within the same chassis, but even then there's so much minutiae and subjectivity to conclusively say whether the heroes are the best.

For better or worse, omnipods make it very hard for individual mechs to stand out. The disparities are more on a chassis-level rather than a variant's loadout.

[LowSubmarino]

The game has become pay to win.

Hard point location is a major variable in this game.

Almost more important than any other variable.

Look at the summoner.

The by far best pods are not accessible via cbills.

They are so much better than their cbill counterparts that there is only one thing left to say:

You get a major advantage if you pay with real money.

Fact.

[GrimRiver]

For omni-pod swapping: Min-max build are min-maxed, to add omni-pods with more weapon hardpoints will only decrease the efficiency of the builds due to there being more weapons and less room for heat sinks to cool it down.

The pod loadout of clan hero's 2 don't look too P2W and so what if they are, that's only a very small handful of mechs vs the c-bill mechs that out perform their hero versions.