188 replies to this topic

[GrimRiver]

Mcgral18, on 05 April 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

33% more firepower


Not significant

The 2 mechs I see with the biggest increase is the GAR's 3 missiles and EXE's 4 missiles, two under performing assaults.

The icebox gets ECM and an extra missile, maybe people will want to own one now.

The MDD gets 2 torso ballistic, something other than a splatdog for once.

The rest gets 1 to 2 hardpoints which I feel is meh at best.

I feel it's not significant.

[Mcgral18]

GrimRiver, on 05 April 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

The 2 mechs I see with the biggest increase is the GAR's 3 missiles and EXE's 4 missiles, two under performing assaults.

The icebox gets ECM and an extra missile, maybe people will want to own one now.

The MDD gets 2 torso ballistic, something other than a splatdog for once.

The rest gets 1 to 2 hardpoints which I feel is meh at best.

I feel it's not significant.

The Myth Lynx goes from 4 to 6

That is the biggest change on this current list (next to the Cute Fox last set)

[Mystere]

Yeonne Greene, on 05 April 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

There is no "true" meaning. For as long as the concept of gameplay-influencing premium content has been around, there have been two broad camps: those who share your opinion on the previous page and those who define it as anything that gives you an edge.

Which makes this thread and others like it simply pointless.

[DaZur]

This whole thread is about as pointless as a box of rock in a leaky rowboat...

PGI releases a mech that offers nothing new or advantageous and the community emits a collective "meh" and this discussion revolves around PGI recycling garbage. PGI offers up anything that borders on being "better than what's presently available" and you all lose your minds shuffling in circles muttering nonsense about power-creep and or P2W.

[Monkey Lover]

DaZur, on 05 April 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:

This whole thread is about as pointless as a box of rock in a leaky rowboat...

PGI releases a mech that offers nothing new or advantageous and the community emits a collective "meh" and this discussion revolves around PGI recycling garbage. PGI offers up anything that borders on being "better than what's presently available" and you all lose your minds shuffling in circles muttering nonsense about power-creep and or P2W.

lol sorry but no.... Pgi was power creeping mechs. Only a few of them did they really offer something new.

For example the cheetah it new can do some ballistics and might even be useful with heavy machineguns.

But at the same time they gave the mist 2 energy where there was never anything before.
Maybe they could have added a 3ams arm other than the 2ams+e or 3 ballistic arm other than the 2ballist+m or maybe masc over the ecm arm....

You know trades and balance? New options not just adding 3 missiles points to the sides of the gargoyle where there was nothing before ....

Edited by Monkey Lover, 05 April 2017 - 10:11 PM.

[FireStoat]

DaZur, on 05 April 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:

This whole thread is about as pointless as a box of rock in a leaky rowboat...

I think the point that people were trying to make, which I finally understand, is that mechs that under perform in the current game state such as the Kitfox, Ice Ferret, and Mist Lynx were examined by the devs and given a remedy in the form of improved weapon omnipods that are solely to be obtained behind a paywall. Those mechs and certain ones like them suck - we know it, the devs know it, it's not a secret.

I agree - players shouldn't have to pay cash just for a remedy for a mech to gain relevance. Any argument outside of that particular topic though is lost on me.

Edit - I own the Purifier and yes, the Ear Mounts are amazing. I'm extremely disappointed that since I own the hero, I don't even have the side torsos unlocked for additional variants I might own. That's kind of messed up since again, it's on a chassis that's been outclassed by the game's progression.

Edited by FireStoat, 05 April 2017 - 10:16 PM.

[Mcgral18]

DaZur, on 05 April 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:

This whole thread is about as pointless as a box of rock in a leaky rowboat...

PGI releases a mech that offers nothing new or advantageous and the community emits a collective "meh" and this discussion revolves around PGI recycling garbage. PGI offers up anything that borders on being "better than what's presently available" and you all lose your minds shuffling in circles muttering nonsense about power-creep and or P2W.

So, I take it you didn't read until the end?
Because if there's no risk of P2W, you can be allowed to make them competitive (though, preferably still not superior)

[Lupis Volk]

Mystere, on 05 April 2017 - 09:44 PM, said:

Which makes this thread and others like it simply pointless.

Well it doesn't make it useless since the hugbox can keep on crying and destroy another phrase and it's meaning.

[Y E O N N E]

Mystere, on 05 April 2017 - 09:44 PM, said:

Which makes this thread and others like it simply pointless.

Nah, it's just a continuation of a debate that was never resolved and likely never well be resolved. There is a point, it's just asymptotic.

[RAM]

Athom83, on 04 April 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

Definition of a Mech; "may refer to both scientific ideas and science fiction genres that centers on robots or machines controlled by people."

That would be the definition of mecha...


RAM
ELH

[Sjorpha]

There simply should not be omnimech heroes or permanently paywalled omnipods in the game.

[Catra Lanis]

Who cares? There are two mechs that are outrageous right now. The Dakka Bear because of its insane dakka and the Locust because it exploits a sub par netcode combined with a scaling that is almost a quirk in itself..

I fight the rest any day in any mech of the same weight class and I don not expect the pods changing this in either direction.

Edited by Catra Lanis, 06 April 2017 - 02:39 AM.

[Reza Malin]

I understand all the usual pay to win concerns with this stuff.

Others may need to remember that the developer needs to keep making money for the shareholders.

You might be thinking, "oooh goodie, new tech in summer, i might spend some cash then".

You might even not be.

Regardless of our own in game goals for buying or not buying, the shareholders still want to see financial targets.

To that end PGI needs to try and keep generating cash profits. even in periods where the majority of us are waiting for future releases.

The best way to do that is to tempt people to buy things they desire. How do you make something desirable? You make it good. Some of these pods are good, just like some of the loyalty pods were damn good to try and entice people to buy mechpacks and claim the loyalty rewards.

Its just business. People take it as a personal slight. Offer them some other way, of making an equal amount of profit as these kinds of packages, and they will no doubt take it. There is a reason they have not come up with another method though.

Also, "offering just the pods for MC", or any other mickey mouse way round it won't cut the mustard. Then no one would pay the full price for the actual mech pack. As mentioned earlier, they want to make profits to keep the shareholders golden. Reducing the potential profit, to make it easy for buyers, is something no company does, ever.

Just be realistic about it.

[Marius Romanis]

process, on 05 April 2017 - 11:20 AM, said:

Pay to optimize? Sure.
Power creep? Sure.

P2W? No. There's nothing outstanding about any of the exclusive omnipods that will suddenly catapult these mechs to top tier. Other chassis can already pull off the builds that are being speculated, and better. Maybe if you compared these heroes 1v1 with F2P builds within the same chassis, but even then there's so much minutiae and subjectivity to conclusively say whether the heroes are the best.

For better or worse, omnipods make it very hard for individual mechs to stand out. The disparities are more on a chassis-level rather than a variant's loadout.

Lupis Volk, on 05 April 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

People seem to have destroyed the meaning of "pay to win"

Pay to win means i exchange money for a clear cut power advantage over players that can't be gotten any other way.

What we have here isn't that. These heroes don't have anything that makes them jesus or gods among mechs aside from a god tier pilot. If anything they are pay to optimise.

DaZur, on 05 April 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:

This whole thread is about as pointless as a box of rock in a leaky rowboat...

PGI releases a mech that offers nothing new or advantageous and the community emits a collective "meh" and this discussion revolves around PGI recycling garbage. PGI offers up anything that borders on being "better than what's presently available" and you all lose your minds shuffling in circles muttering nonsense about power-creep and or P2W.

Summoner Energy Side Torso shoulder mounted PPC's that didnt get nerfed for 6 months would disagree with your arguments.

Its pay to win till enough people complain enough that pgi realise people will stop playing and then their whales will stop paying unless due to no one to play with/against unless they do something about it.

It has to be pay to get an advantage for a few months before everyone else can get it. (id pay 600 MC or 10 mil cbills for summoner shoulder omni 4 months after release before it got nerfed 9 months after release)

Edited by CadoAzazel, 06 April 2017 - 03:08 AM.

[Pr8Dator]

Not all are good or even useful... hint: WARRANT!

[Snazzy Dragon]

Pr8Dator, on 06 April 2017 - 04:46 AM, said:

Not all are good or even useful... hint: WARRANT!

Ahem. Hint: torso laser on the right side, with no jumpjets, which means more DHS for laser vomit, and no negative quirks on that pod either. That's paywalled.

[DjPush]

Dakota1000, on 04 April 2017 - 04:12 PM, said:

Really should let people at least buy the omnipods for cbills, even at a higher than normal price. Maybe even sell the hero mechs themselves at double the cbill cost, with or without cbill boost even.

Just enough to keep the available builds the same between pay and not, pay should decrease grind and give you fancy paints or whatever, not be the best chassis.

Then what is the point of paying money for a Hero mech if it has nothing that sets it apart from the others?

Edited by DjPush, 06 April 2017 - 05:51 AM.

[GrimRiver]

Mcgral18, on 05 April 2017 - 08:46 PM, said:

The Myth Lynx goes from 4 to 6

That is the biggest change on this current list (next to the Cute Fox last set)

Mist Lynx? Sorry, that name isn't ringing any bells.

...Oh, you mean the most under performing clan light in the game, more under performing than even IS lights and takes really skilled players to make it decent.

I would call it a "much need buff" that requires some loosening of the wallet.

(I wasn't being sarcastic about the MLX, I just literally forgot that mech even existed.)

Edited by GrimRiver, 06 April 2017 - 06:17 AM.

[Lehmund]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 April 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

Considering how strong pushes are in certain scenarios, the Gargles and Sexecutioners are also a bit worry some since they could do Splat Timby builds with more tankiness.

Honestly guys, I agree that Hero pods should be available at some point after release for C-Bills or even MC. You don't get the Cbill bonus for the mech, but you get access to the pods. That would make both PGI and the fans happy. They'd likely make more money this way because people that buy the Hero mechs, like myself, buy them to have them early and the CBill bonus, not for the perceived advantage they may gain over others (P2W).

Here's why by example. They EBJ Hero gets you an extra high mounted ballistic hardpoint. So instead of poking high with 1 Gauss and 2 PPCs, you can do 2 Gauss. Is that truly a heavy advantage? If I do the math, you're exchanging a 35 alpha with heat for a 30 alpha with no heat. Tonnage is going to be similar accounting for ammo and extra heatsinks. Not to mention you can do 2 Gauss (or similar combo with twin lbx20's or whatever) on other builds with high mounts, like the Hunchback IIC variants, the Kodiak 3, the Night Gyr. Granted, not as high but pretty similar without a sweat.

So if you can do the same with multiple standard chassis for Cbills at multiple tonnage points, is the EBJ with 2 high ballistic really OP? No. For some people it may make the Hero chassis more powerful for hill peeking than other EBJ chassis they may have, but it won't affect the overall Faction Warfare balance and landscape in a similar way that the Purifier didn't revolutionize anything.

I encourage everyone to calm down here. When these get mixed into the DOZENS of other very nice build choices on IS and Clan sides, it won't matter anymore.

Again, I do implore PGI to consider offering Hero Pods for CBills (ideally) at a later date. That's only fair and good business, but in the meantime, I don't think the Omnimech Heros are any more overpowered than what we have now (I mean, come on think about it, you can get an extra torso mounted laser for your HBR with ECM. That costs extra heat, which means extra heat sinks in a brawl or long range combat. Are you really doing more DPS? Do the math and the difference is insignificant beyond the extra few points of alpha. i.e. after that bigger alpha, you need more time to cool down before the next one, or overheat.

[El Bandito]

GrimRiver, on 06 April 2017 - 06:12 AM, said:

Mist Lynx? Sorry, that name isn't ringing any bells.

...Oh, you mean the most under performing clan light in the game, more under performing than even IS lights and takes really skilled players to make it decent.

I would call it a "much need buff" that requires some loosening of the wallet.

"Much needed buff" should not require loosening of the wallet in the first place.