310 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 09 April 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

snip

Adding visual aids to your lies doesn't suddenly make them truths.

[Dee Eight]

Battlemaster56, on 09 April 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

That's look like a bad build , why not just run 2 cguass and erppc or change ppc for some er medium lasers they seem less extreme than what you got on for the MADIIC-D.

Because one of the energy mounts is in the head so you're limited to one PPC then and if I wanted a dual-gauss / single PPC I'd use a night gyr to do it. Also I'm not concerned with how others would equip it. I build to my play style and no one elses.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Dee Eight, on 09 April 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

Except as I've said MANY times... i don't merely run LRMs nor do I merely fire indirectly. The MAD2C in question is the ECM model, and also has an AMS, active probe, 2 UAC/2s w/4 tons and 2 ERLLs, TC1, and the pair of LRM launchers are 15s with artemis and six tons of ammo. Artemis requires line of sight for the spread reduction to work, as since I'm fighting with LOS I might as well be matching the range of the missiles with some direct fire. Also to the whole "spray" of LRMs... if its done properly and forces the enemy to either move in certain directions away from the launcher, panics them into hiding behind a building or hill, or otherwise helps the rest of the team push around for their direct fire builds to be effective....that is still helping the team.

ECM at the back that is NOT covering a single other teammate but yourself & a whole load of extremely long range weapons that make you sure you can justify your terribly selfish play style in your own mind. I drew up a whole diagram that demonstrates undeniably how you are not effectively positioning yourself when you use LRMs. Just from my knowledge I could point out exactly where you were on Canyon which the vague information given... cause I know where bad Assaults LRMers go when they think they are being useful but really just crashing missles into the the mountains cause their understanding of Line of Flight is as atrocious yours. It is not some mysterious puzzle like SuperString Theory to figure out... it is basic level incompetence that happens every single day that all players can observe until it is uniformly understood that LRMs are bad.

LRMs are not bad and can be a huge asset that I am happy to have on the board to the point when I do not have any, I wish I did cause Indirect Fire Support as been a vital part of military warfare for thousands of years. It is the people who are still using them at Tier 1 & 2 that are bad, cause they are bad players regardless of the weapon system. Their refusal to learn is what makes them bad...

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Dee Eight, on 09 April 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

Adding visual aids to your lies doesn't suddenly make them truths.

It was 100% accurate of the positioning during the match prior to when CGL set in for the enemy team thereby meaning the game had been won, merely inconsequential clean up was all that happened from then on. You being super impressed with yourself for what you did during the inconsequential part of the match after it had already been won is the problem. Once checkmate as been realized in Chess the opponent just tips the King, we have to play all those moves out... you are never involved in an meaningful way in any part of the game that is not those closing moves of an already decided match that I have witnessed dozens of times over the past 9 months I have been back.

Hence what it means to Carry... you need the other members of the team you are on to win it for you i.e. "Carry you", cause you are never involved in the actual deciding part of who wins or loses the match.

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 09 April 2017 - 10:25 AM.

[Dee Eight]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 09 April 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

It was 100% accurate of the positioning during the match prior to when CGL set in for the enemy team thereby meaning the game had been won, merely inconsequential clean up was all that happened from then on. You being super impressed with yourself for what you did during the inconsequential part of the match after it had already been won is the problem. Once checkmate as been realized in Chess the opponent just tips the King, we have to play all those moves out... you are never involved in an meaningful way in any part of the game that is not those closing moves of an already decided match that I have witnessed dozens of times over the past 9 months I have been back.

Its only 100% accurate in being a lie you will repeat over and over to cover up your own below average performance in that match. But whatever helps you sleep at night. I'm done wasting time on you in this discussion.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Dee Eight, on 09 April 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

Its only 100% accurate in being a lie you will repeat over and over to cover up your own below average performance in that match. But whatever helps you sleep at night. I'm done wasting time on you in this discussion.

Nope.. it is where you were until the match had been won by a few of us holding the sliver of the circle we could and really it was the Mediums & Linebacker who were able to turn the flank that was the winning manuever. If you had been useful instead of useless then we would not have needed the flank since we could have concentrated enough firepower to just assualt the point. Those are facts... this is what I play this game for, the movement and maneuvers of pieces on the board. So you trying to pretend that is not what happened is hopefully you just trying to deny how foolish you are to everyone else and not a delusional remembrance of what actually transpired.... cause that was exactly what happened, you hid in the back doing nothing of any real value until the end after we were up by at least 5 mechs. But then that is your MO... it is very sadly the MO of many players.

[The Basilisk]

Dee Eight, on 09 April 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

Its only 100% accurate in being a lie you will repeat over and over to cover up your own below average performance in that match. But whatever helps you sleep at night. I'm done wasting time on you in this discussion.

Its pointless to argue with a bunch of T1 back patters going vocal about their favorite topic:

There is only one right way to play .... theirs.

They will continue to back each others backs even if they are the last few ppl in this game.

Same thing like in all to many forum subsections and actually also the basic reason why FP dies and everything other thing slowly but surely drys up and dies in this game.

There is a loud, abusive and vocal fraction of wanna be gameboy pros nagging and bragging and stinking against everything that encourages diversity, game mechanics abberant from their make belive meta and personal agenda.

Those guys are also the ones making every possible advancement of the game (may it be as unfinished or full of room for improvements as it is) impossible by their whining and howling for the only and esclusivly true meta they adhere to.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

The Basilisk, on 09 April 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

Its pointless to argue with a bunch of T1 back patters going vocal about their favorite topic:

There is only one right way to play .... theirs.

They will continue to back each others backs even if they are the last few ppl in this game.

Same thing like in all to many forum subsections and actually also the basic reason why FP dies and everything other thing slowly but surely drys up and dies in this game.

There is a loud, abusive and vocal fraction of wanna be gameboy pros nagging and bragging and stinking against everything that encourages diversity, game mechanics abberant from their make belive meta and personal agenda.

Those guys are also the ones making every possible advancement of the game (may it be as unfinished or full of room for improvements as it is) impossible by their whining and howling for the only and esclusivly true meta they adhere to.

Except that i despise the Cancer Pilots even more than the incompetent ones, so trying to lump me in with them is disingenuous at best. The Skill Maze was a dumpster fire but mostly because it would make the PPFLD meta poptarts EVEN BETTER then they were already while further harming any actual diversity that currently exists. You can already make a very diverse mech selection, the problem lies in the broken Reward System that punishes anyone who does not focus on Damage/Kills because that is all that is tracked and rewarded.

I have been trying to teach him how to not be ineffectual in the outcome of the match, I want him to have meaningful contribution to the victory which currently he does not do. I am explaining to him HOW to do what he wants to do the correct way instead of the wrong way like he currently does. I never said that he should not have LRMs (even though there are much much much much better platforms for that weapon system than a MDR-IIC-D) I only want him to learn HOW to position himself properly so that his Line of Flight is correct, I like LRMs and have a great understanding of the Value they can give to a team. I want him to be able to realize that potential instead of being a detriment simply because he can not figure out HOW to get his Line of Flight right... it is a very simple fix, as I showed all he had to do was move about 700m & he would have went from absolutely useless when it mattered to being extremely useful when it matter. That is the sum total of his failure in the match, which of course leads to the real failure which is not only the lack of understanding that being 700m away from the right spot made him useless but that he refuses to learn HOW his being in the wrong spot is WHY he is useless. That is the systemic failure overall... the refusal to learn.

[Valleric]

Ya, not reading yo comments anymore dee. I don't like to bask in ignorance. Im sure the people who don't care about being a good team player and want to be bad at the game will listen to you though.

[Valleric]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 09 April 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

It was 100% accurate of the positioning during the match prior to when CGL set in for the enemy team thereby meaning the game had been won, merely inconsequential clean up was all that happened from then on. You being super impressed with yourself for what you did during the inconsequential part of the match after it had already been won is the problem. Once checkmate as been realized in Chess the opponent just tips the King, we have to play all those moves out... you are never involved in an meaningful way in any part of the game that is not those closing moves of an already decided match that I have witnessed dozens of times over the past 9 months I have been back.


Hence what it means to Carry... you need the other members of the team you are on to win it for you i.e. "Carry you", cause you are never involved in the actual deciding part of who wins or loses the match.

Yea dee is not only a bad player, he lies about his matches and refuses to take responsibility for himself.

[Dee Eight]

The Basilisk, on 09 April 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

Its pointless to argue with a bunch of T1 back patters going vocal about their favorite topic:

There is only one right way to play .... theirs.

They will continue to back each others backs even if they are the last few ppl in this game.

Same thing like in all to many forum subsections and actually also the basic reason why FP dies and everything other thing slowly but surely drys up and dies in this game.

There is a loud, abusive and vocal fraction of wanna be gameboy pros nagging and bragging and stinking against everything that encourages diversity, game mechanics abberant from their make belive meta and personal agenda.

Those guys are also the ones making every possible advancement of the game (may it be as unfinished or full of room for improvements as it is) impossible by their whining and howling for the only and esclusivly true meta they adhere to.

I know, but the more those sorts rant on the forums, the less time they're actually playing the game and thus I rarely have to carry them in games, or end up losing matches because they're busy barking commands while hiding behind others.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Basilisk, this isn't about build diversity or the meta, it's about basic common sense. An assault LRMboat using indirect fire from way in the back is MWO's equivalent of the archetypal MLG wannabe CoD player sitting in the corner of a map with a sniper rifle missing most of their shots and crowing when they manage to get a kill.

If someone does poorly, that's fine. If someone goes out of their way to play in a manner which is actively detrimental to the team and not particularly effective, that's annoying. If they get all self-righteous when someone points it out, that's arrogant.

LRMs are sub-par, but can still be made to work. They're only the most common target because when a potato uses them they're even more obvious about not having a clue what they're doing than with other builds.

[Valleric]

Alexander of Macedon, on 09 April 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

Basilisk, this isn't about build diversity or the meta, it's about basic common sense. An assault LRMboat using indirect fire from way in the back is MWO's equivalent of the archetypal MLG wannabe CoD player sitting in the corner of a map with a sniper rifle missing most of their shots and crowing when they manage to get a kill.

If someone does poorly, that's fine. If someone goes out of their way to play in a manner which is actively detrimental to the team and not particularly effective, that's annoying. If they get all self-righteous when someone points it out, that's arrogant.

LRMs are sub-par, but can still be made to work. They're only the most common target because when a potato uses them they're even more obvious about not having a clue what they're doing than with other builds.

Yea this post was about just basic competence lacking in some scrub assault pilots. Fight beside yo teammates, stay with the team, and not being a cowardly selfish player hiding in the back.

[nehebkau]

Dee Eight, on 09 April 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

Except as I've said MANY times... i don't merely run LRMs nor do I merely fire indirectly. The MAD2C in question is the ECM model, and also has an AMS, active probe, 2 UAC/2s w/4 tons and 2 ERLLs, TC1, and the pair of LRM launchers are 15s with artemis and six tons of ammo. Artemis requires line of sight for the spread reduction to work, as since I'm fighting with LOS I might as well be matching the range of the missiles with some direct fire. Also to the whole "spray" of LRMs... if its done properly and forces the enemy to either move in certain directions away from the launcher, panics them into hiding behind a building or hill, or otherwise helps the rest of the team push around for their direct fire builds to be effective....that is still helping the team.

Your entire build says "I like to hide at the back".... in an 85T assault mech... For the people "in the know" that says enough.

[Valleric]

nehebkau, on 09 April 2017 - 02:06 PM, said:

Your entire build says "I like to hide at the back".... in an 85T assault mech... For the people "in the know" that says enough.

Most of what he said screams incompetence.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

untz, on 09 April 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

So, my #4 point was accurate. Gotcha.
Might wanna invest in some Charmin Freshmates.

I have no beef with Zuul nor do I want to start.
Haven't played with the guy, so I cannot say.
If he happens to be one of those sexy unicorn players that can rock a load out others can't handle, I would love to see it.
You, on the other hand, just trying to fuel an already weak fire.
Best to you.

no worries mate... I have unfortunately been privy to the exact thing this thread was started about a whole multitude of times, I ran into it again last night. Been doing it for years... was looking through some old screenshots when I was digging out the one i used for my example & ran across this one. I forgot I was even in MS when it was started... I mean seriously, look at those Match Scores!!!!!! Got to score above 165 to talk to me.... hahahahahahahaha

[MischiefSC]

I strongly recommend we take the conversation away from 'you did this one thing in this one match' and instead into 'this behavior is good/bad and here is the reason why'. Personal attacks are not useful or productive.

@Dee Eight;

Drop the AC2s and replace them with more lasers or even just upgrading the ERLLs to CLPLs. If you're going to run LRMs with it then at least to arm-mounted lasers - this keeps aiming synergy. At longer ranges the ballistics need led while the lasers do not and keeping locks is ideally done (with tag) on the target.

So you run lasers, which being arm mounted (hopefully with a tag) you can keep on the target WHILE holding a lock. They're also far more useful against lights who come for you. Combining ballistics with missiles with lasers reduces the precision you have in getting all weapons on target at once.

I'd go with something like this.

You'd want to chain up the 3rd LPL but up close against lights staggering 2, 1, 2, 1 will be just fine and cool enough. At long range trying to shoot everything at once would be a little toasty but you *should* be able to get off a 2,1,2 with the LPLs on a single target and keep the LRMs firing.

It'll be a tad slow until you get speed tweak but it'll keep pace with Night Gyrs and Warhawks just fine.

It would be an effective build using LRMs from 700m to 180m and still more deployable firepower than most mediums inside 180m. You could absolutely push with your team any time needed and it would be very effective playing with your team at any range.

[Dee Eight]

MischiefSC, on 09 April 2017 - 02:57 PM, said:

I strongly recommend we take the conversation away from 'you did this one thing in this one match' and instead into 'this behavior is good/bad and here is the reason why'. Personal attacks are not useful or productive.

@Dee Eight;

Drop the AC2s and replace them with more lasers or even just upgrading the ERLLs to CLPLs. If you're going to run LRMs with it then at least to arm-mounted lasers - this keeps aiming synergy. At longer ranges the ballistics need led while the lasers do not and keeping locks is ideally done (with tag) on the target.

Do you not know the mech ? Its the MAD-2C-D. Its got two energy hardpoints (RT and Head), two ballistic hardpoints (arms) and two missile hardpoints (also arms). THAT is it. You cannot run two LPLs, and simply 1 is pointless in my opinion on an assault. I cannot have aiming synergy as you put it because it cannot arm mount the lasers. This is besides the point I've already said I run my mechs as I see fit, for my play style, not for anyone else or their perceptions on meta and builds and synergy. I only responded to you at all since you're giving advice on building a mech that Isn't the variant I was using while I and the rest of the team carried zuul lastnight. His performance of 247 damage, 1 kill and 7 assists in a Mad-2C as he scored is nothing to write home about or give pointers to others in the match. Especially NOT to the guy who did 497 2 kills and 7 assists in another MAD-2C variant.

[Dee Eight]

nehebkau, on 09 April 2017 - 02:06 PM, said:

Your entire build says "I like to hide at the back".... in an 85T assault mech... For the people "in the know" that says enough.

Well then those people don't know very much because its hard to hide at the back when more than half the damage comes from direct fire weaponry. But whatever... i don't answer to you or any other players.

[Valleric]

Omg is he still posting stuff? He looks so bad lol. I stopped reading his posts. The derp was giving me a rash.