310 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

Wil McCullough, on 12 April 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

when assaults get left behind by the main force, they're often the cause of their own circumstance because they don't move.

But by the same token, when fast lights and mediums extend too far forwards, too quickly and then are screaming for assault support...its their own damn fault for not monitoring where the "backup" they might need is on the map. More than half the assaults in the game, clan or IS will top out under 70 and many IS ones in particular, and a couple clan also will be below 60. At the very least players should pay attention to the team roster and learn the tonnages for every mech in the game to have a vague idea of their likely speed before charging off. 1 min at 60kph is a 1000 meters. Thus if you're in a cheetah and you race off at top speed...in 1 minute you're going to be over a kilometer further away from a mech like a warhawk.

Also I'm not sure you quite understand how big most maps are, and just how long it actually takes to go spawn to spawn on them even in a fast heavy. On mining collective with an archer doing 74.6, it took exactly 2 minutes to go from Fox 2 to Fox 7 and that's one of the smallest maps we play on.

[Wil McCullough]

Dee Eight, on 12 April 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

But by the same token, when fast lights and mediums extend too far forwards, too quickly and then are screaming for assault support...its their own damn fault for not monitoring where the "backup" they might need is on the map.

i've actually barely heard any light pilots screaming for assaults to support them when they extend too far forwards. i think it's because they know they done goofed and its their own damn fault. for every light pilot screaming about slow assaults, there's probably twenty assault pilots screaming about being left behind after afking at the start.

people keep fingering light and medium pilots for leaving assaults behind, but that's frankly ********.

lights and mediums are the scout and quick reaction force. it's ridiculous for assault pilots to expect fast mediums and lights to hold their hand to the front line. assaults ONLY have to keep up with the heavies. but yet, that somehow seems impossible for a large number of screaming assault pilots who have the psycho motor skills of a 6 year old and therefore can't move and shoot at the same time.

Quote

Also I'm not sure you quite understand how big most maps are, and just how long it actually takes to go spawn to spawn on them even in a fast heavy. On mining collective with an archer doing 74.6, it took exactly 2 minutes to go from Fox 2 to Fox 7 and that's one of the smallest maps we play on.

clan heavies move at 87 speed tweaked. the average medium goes 90+. mechs like the locust, commando and ach reach 130++.

a large number of mechs can cross from spawn to spawn in a large number of maps fairly quickly. obviously it's impossible for maps like polar, but you get the idea.

also its funny how you brought up mining, because that's the map where i hear the MOST amount of whining from assault pilots about getting left behind and chewed up by lights/mediums.

the ironic thing is just like you said, it's one of the smallest maps we have and yet the stupid assaults STILL get "left behind" because instead of heading towards to rest of the team, they waddle straight down the b line into the entire enemy team and get crushed.

btw, mining only goes from e1 to e6. the f line is mostly out of bounds. and 1- 6 is literally the ENTIRE length of the map. if you can go down the entire map in 2 minutes in a slow heavy, you actually just proved my point.

Edited by Wil McCullough, 12 April 2017 - 10:37 PM.

[Erronius]

Dee Eight, on 12 April 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

...when fast lights and mediums extend too far forwards, too quickly and then are screaming for assault support...

[Kangarad]

Wil McCullough, on 12 April 2017 - 10:35 PM, said:

the ironic thing is just like you said, it's one of the smallest maps we have and yet the stupid assaults STILL get "left behind" because instead of heading towards to rest of the team, they waddle straight down the b line into the entire enemy team and get crushed.

btw, mining only goes from e1 to e6. the f line is mostly out of bounds. and 1- 6 is literally the ENTIRE length of the map. if you can go down the entire map in 2 minutes in a slow heavy, you actually just proved my point.

depends on which side of mining yoyu spawn on. if your assaults spawn on your left, theyr gonna get left behind because they spawn 3 grids behind your team AND your team will be nascaring away from them to the right. Infact the enemy teams heavys will reach D4 the same time your assaults do if they go through the tunnel.

Edited by Kangarad, 12 April 2017 - 11:24 PM.

[Dee Eight]

FireStoat, on 12 April 2017 - 09:01 PM, said:

Let me know when he can do as much meaningful damage using LRM's over a brawl build.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5bf0f37ff4ae09c

https://imgur.com/a/xdHpF

Consider yourself let known it has already been done....





That was April 9th, 12:45am EST. Nice score you got there btw.

This game was 90 minutes later... (Tarl Cabot is who killed me)





This was 14 minutes after that (as in the very next match)





and this was 28 minutes later (now at 3:01am EST, still April 9th). I blew myself up with a danger close artillery strike if I remember correctly.

Erronius, on 12 April 2017 - 11:04 PM, said:

Nice meme but that is exactly what started this thread... a particular light/medium driver pushing too far away into a bad spot and then demanding assault support...

Edited by Dee Eight, 12 April 2017 - 11:49 PM.

[Erronius]

Dee Eight, on 12 April 2017 - 11:08 PM, said:

Nice meme but that is exactly what started this thread... a particular light/medium driver pushing too far away into a bad spot and then demanding assault support...

There's a world of difference between "rush to support me because I overextended" and "get up with the rest of the team instead of hiding somewhere out of LOS in the back".

The debate over which of those is what actually happened is pretty much this thread in a nutshell, though.

[Dee Eight]

Kangarad, on 12 April 2017 - 11:07 PM, said:

depends on which side of mining yoyu spawn on. if your assaults spawn on your left, theyr gonna get left behind because they spawn 2grids behind your team AND your team will be nascaring away from them to the right. Infact the enemy teams heavys will reach D4 the same time your assaults do if they go through the tunnel.

Its 3 grids not 2... charlie spawns C2 and Alpha in F2 while bravo is basically on the line between the D2 and E2.

[Dee Eight]

Erronius, on 12 April 2017 - 11:15 PM, said:

There's a world of difference between "rush to support me because I overextended" and "get up with the rest of the team instead of hiding somewhere out of LOS in the back".

The debate over which of those is what actually happened is pretty much this thread in a nutshell, though.

As I said early in the thread...I was getting my own locks while in LOS as the TAG and Artemis don't provide the good bonuses without that. If folks would rather believe the OP's version well that's their own decision to make. And I wasn't alone where I was. Besides the warhawk there was a timber wolf, and at least one other medium with us. Skirmish game on canyons (I'm sure you know where the drop zones are for each lance in that mode on that map). Two of the other assaults DID push forwards to the map center, and died early being cut off in the open crossing a high ridge rather than pushing thru a canyon out of sight. I only dropped down into the canyon myself because that's where the fight had moved for the four of us and about four of the enemy team. I was still engaging with LOS though, just at a closer distance to the enemy.

Edited by Dee Eight, 12 April 2017 - 11:25 PM.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

tker 669, on 12 April 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

You can repeat all you like. Nothing you have to say so far is particularly convincing that you have any business calling or telling folks what to do.

You also don't remember me as it is obvious since you thought I was in the drop in question....

at no point did I say that... stop trying to think man, I have seen you in action trying and it is not impressive. I was speaking in a general sense for the next time I am unfortunate enough to have you stuck like a milestone on my team. I will do the thinking there as well... you will have a whole lot of fun and be amazed at all the "noobs" who happen to be front your targeting reticle all of a sudden, if you just go where I tell you to go. I am intimately familiar with all the maps and modes since there is so very little of it and PGI does not even have the decency to introduce a random spawn point to change up how they are played... so I know the moves and counter to whatever the enemy is going to do since there is a very limited set of predetermined options available.

[FireStoat]

Dee Eight, on 12 April 2017 - 11:08 PM, said:

Consider yourself let known it has already been done....

I guess I should be glad that when I was called out in your screenshot, that my x3 ER PPC / 6 ER Small laser build pulled over 800 direct damage. The only suggestion I would make is that when you post screenshots directly on the forums, that you black out the names excluding yourself as that's the forum posting policy. I got away with it because I posted a link to a non PGI host.

I will not refute that your damage was more than acceptable.

[Dee Eight]

FireStoat, on 12 April 2017 - 11:35 PM, said:

I guess I should be glad that when I was called out in your screenshot, that my x3 ER PPC / 6 ER Small laser build pulled over 800 direct damage

It was just a happy accident that I had a screenshot of us on the same lance for that particular MAD-IIC variant. I always save my best match results for named mechs, and well... out of ten matches for Mad Drama sunday morning, I ended up with four great results. As an aside, my Mad-IIC itself is also 3x ER-PPC build but its 6 x Small Pulse lasers instead.

[Wil McCullough]

Kangarad, on 12 April 2017 - 11:07 PM, said:

depends on which side of mining yoyu spawn on. if your assaults spawn on your left, theyr gonna get left behind because they spawn 3 grids behind your team AND your team will be nascaring away from them to the right. Infact the enemy teams heavys will reach D4 the same time your assaults do if they go through the tunnel.

i'm speaking for the spawn where the assaults spawn left.

they won't get left behind if they take a hard right and follow the rest of the team.

going right puts them in a position where by the time the enemy is in a position to engage them, they have to do it from a relatively flat area with very limited cover. a failed push from that position means they have to fall back to the narrow corridor on the low ground beside the center. and if that happens, you basically won the game cos that place is a shooting gallery.

going right should be the standard opening move for assaults who get that spawn because your allied heavies near the ramp are close enough to provide crossfire if **** goes down. assaults only need to keep up with their heavies.

only stupid assault pilots will march straight down the tunnel in a suicidal charge, get creamed by both the enemy heavy and assault lance, then moan about getting left behind to die.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Dee Eight, on 12 April 2017 - 11:08 PM, said:

demanding assault support...

I always tell them to shove off.

[The Basilisk]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 09 April 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

Except that i despise the Cancer Pilots even more than the incompetent ones, so trying to lump me in with them is disingenuous at best. The Skill Maze was a dumpster fire but mostly because it would make the PPFLD meta poptarts EVEN BETTER then they were already while further harming any actual diversity that currently exists. You can already make a very diverse mech selection, the problem lies in the broken Reward System that punishes anyone who does not focus on Damage/Kills because that is all that is tracked and rewarded.

I have been trying to teach him how to not be ineffectual in the outcome of the match, I want him to have meaningful contribution to the victory which currently he does not do. I am explaining to him HOW to do what he wants to do the correct way instead of the wrong way like he currently does. I never said that he should not have LRMs (even though there are much much much much better platforms for that weapon system than a MDR-IIC-D) I only want him to learn HOW to position himself properly so that his Line of Flight is correct, I like LRMs and have a great understanding of the Value they can give to a team. I want him to be able to realize that potential instead of being a detriment simply because he can not figure out HOW to get his Line of Flight right... it is a very simple fix, as I showed all he had to do was move about 700m & he would have went from absolutely useless when it mattered to being extremely useful when it matter. That is the sum total of his failure in the match, which of course leads to the real failure which is not only the lack of understanding that being 700m away from the right spot made him useless but that he refuses to learn HOW his being in the wrong spot is WHY he is useless. That is the systemic failure overall... the refusal to learn.

"...teach...and...meaningfull contribution..."

Oh guys plz don't you get it?
Its an effin game in effin puglandia.
There is no teach or meaningfull !!!!!

Don't you get it how hillarious it is when a bunch of guys showing of their golden "T1 well done my boy" patches are nagging and bragging and stinking against someone who just drives fun and troll builds in PuG queues with the argument that you actually can still be quite successfull and effective even on builds going completely against the meta or even so called "common sense" (common sense in a game QTF).

On the contrary I expect from realy good players beeing worth their position on the board to be able to recognize and adapt to the composition of the team and their behavior instead of going "Bohohuuu this guy is driving an LRM assault spoiling my stats."

Real comp players would not even bother with pug queues or group pug queues and the results there (besides from C-bills grinding)
They play lobby against each other or organize in leagues.

Edited by The Basilisk, 13 April 2017 - 12:29 AM.

[Beaching Betty]

Firstly, learn to use paragraph

and secondly, deal with it

Edited by Beaching Betty, 13 April 2017 - 01:03 AM.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

FireStoat, on 12 April 2017 - 09:01 PM, said:

Let me know when he can do as much meaningful damage using LRM's over a brawl build.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5bf0f37ff4ae09c

https://imgur.com/a/xdHpF

He likes using LRMs and hiding... so my goal was to make a better mech for that purpose while pulling him a little closer to the fight, instead of him being a kilometer away from the enemy and being super proud that it worked those 3 times.

[Dee Eight]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 13 April 2017 - 11:53 AM, said:

He likes using LRMs and hiding... so my goal was to make a better mech for that purpose while pulling him a little closer to the fight, instead of him being a kilometer away from the enemy and being super proud that it worked those 3 times.

Whereas you just like barking orders and hiding period, regardless of what weapons you're using. Gotta preserve your kdr somehow....

[Alexander of Macedon]

Yeah, Mining Collective is the assault intelligence test.

[Nemesis Duck]

As the clock ticks and you sit there in the back in your assault, waiting for something to come into your field of view, your team is moving and repositioning to get better exposure and advantage on the enemies, and increasing the amount of damage their weapons do per unit of time compared to yours. Sometimes the repositioning puts the enemy into a postition where they will no longer expose themselves into the field of view of you've chosen for your back bencher assault. This is why it's a waste of armour for assaults to hang back and snipe or LRM from behind a rock. You aren't putting out damage fast enough to make a difference or offset the damage done by enemy assaults who demostrate courage.

[ANOM O MECH]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 12 April 2017 - 11:24 PM, said:

at no point did I say that... stop trying to think man, I have seen you in action trying and it is not impressive. I was speaking in a general sense for the next time I am unfortunate enough to have you stuck like a milestone on my team. I will do the thinking there as well... you will have a whole lot of fun and be amazed at all the "noobs" who happen to be front your targeting reticle all of a sudden, if you just go where I tell you to go. I am intimately familiar with all the maps and modes since there is so very little of it and PGI does not even have the decency to introduce a random spawn point to change up how they are played... so I know the moves and counter to whatever the enemy is going to do since there is a very limited set of predetermined options available.

Well I have seen you try and drop call and it is even less impressive than your fictitious memory of me.

That you call players or the meta currently run in the game cancer speaks volumes. Anyone who thinks the game should only be played his way and the whole rest of the world is wrong if they don't agree with him, obviously has issues that are not going to be resolved on this forum.

Considering you also have nothing to back up your stories is pretty much the nail in the coffin as well. Since this is going no where and you don't seem to have anything positive to add I am going to stop responding to you as it is a waste of time.