202 replies to this topic

[Jingseng]

Scouting means one of two things:

in quick play/skirmish modes, you are in a 95kph + mech, and ranging out ahead of the pack to 1) find the enemy location and report it to the herd, and 2) look for a good opportunity to flank and attack from the rear unnoticed. Occasionally, you sow chaos by 1) enticing enemy mechs to 'chase the squirrel' so you team has a numbers advantage (best done in a 110 kph+), or 2) entice enemy mechs to turn around via a number of reasons such as feint capping the enemy base (allowing the greater portion of your team to shoot them in the back, and soemtimes give a numbers advantage)

in faction play scouting mode, it means pretty much the exact opposite. It means brawling in a 50-55 ton mech.

personally I don't recommend the jenner or any light to start. Too fragile, and require some more specialized skills. Also difficult to grind cbills when you are getting shot out/not dealing as much dmg usually.

Huntsman is a great multipurpose platform. Omnimech, so you can mix and match. Excellent jump capability, high mounts on torso for long range shooting (er ppc, gauss, AC, er Large), good mix of different builds you can run and weapons you can load and/or boat. Acceptable speed. Hitboxes unfortunately make your arms and center torso relatively easy to shoot out. I would say it is an all around work horse, not unlike the hunchbacks. Promotes a slower, thinking/'hunting' gameplay style. It's another mech I rather like. Can run a bit hot though, so you'll also want to practice fire discipline/heat management.

Linebacker is another great mech I like. Excellent speed, great armor. No jump. Variety of builds possible with high mounts. Squat shape. Somewhat low amount of tonnage to play with in choosing weapons means you'll want to have developed preferences and play style, or you'll probably end up spending more cbills on trying things than you'd want to. In play, linebacker can operate as a quick play scout. It operates best by being something of a lonewolf, looking for good opportunities to get behind... because it has the speed to do it and generally will be carrying much more power than people expect to let behind them, so its greater firepower (than a light) becomes a panic inducing threat.

Edited by Jingseng, 13 April 2017 - 05:49 PM.

[Eddie Money]

Define "specialized skills".

[Jingseng]

understanding how to build a mech suitable to your play, understanding cover and how to hide effectively, how to spot and direct lrm fire with or without cooperation, map pathing, game mode goals, cavalry/hit and run style attacking, light mech class priorities (such as responding to base calls, other lights), and so forth....

[Eddie Money]

Most all of that sounds like stuff that carries over from other games like World of Tanks, no? I mean, obviously there's going to be differences since it's a different game with different mechanics, but flanking, scouting, fulfilling goals, returning to base to stop caps, directing a team's artillery, playing hit-and-run, that's all stuff I've done in Light Tanks in WoT as well.

I'm not saying I'm a genius already and don't need to acclimate to a different game, obviously I do and there's things that are gonna be very different. But I think I at least am familiar with a lot of concepts present in a light. I think.

[Jingseng]

the similarity is concept, the difference is practice. and practice is the important part. Your free to do as you like, but you're not the first to say these things in whichever variation (i mean, you did say you want to be a special snowflake)... and it often ends in tears.

I would know.

[Eddie Money]

Concepts vs Practice makes sense, I guess. So assuming I go for a Huntsman instead, what's the general idea I'm working with?

[Ruccus]

For the Huntsman, you can watch some of Snuggles' videos on the mech. He's made several viewer request build videos:

https://www.youtube....afGItYuAxQB_HFW

[Eddie Money]

It's a little disappointing that I'll need to save for a while before I can get something more challenging, but I guess that's life. Huntsman is what to go for, yeah?

[Ruccus]

Above all, get a mech you like. You don't want buyer's remorse because you chose something everyone else said was good but it doesn't really work for you. It's a game and it's about having fun, so just pick a mech that interests you. Just make sure it'll go fast enough for you (there are some heavies and assaults that are very slow so might be frustrating for a new pilot) and has the type of weapon hardpoints you want to use.

Is there one specific mech that you thought looks cool, or some weapon setups that you enjoyed firing? It's perfectly acceptable to say something like "I like lasers" or "I like SRMs" or even "I like LRMs" and choose a mech that is good at using those weapons. Sometimes how you kill something is more enjoyable than how many kills you wrack up.

[Eddie Money]

Well, I enjoyed playing the SRM Jenner IIC earlier a lot, and I like the idea of Light mechs, I guess, harassing, squirreling, and flanking hard. But I also like being able to brawl, so I'm not sure what to use.

[Ruccus]

Well, it has jump jets so it should be on sale. Worst case scenario is you aren't able to have fun with it and end up down about 4.5 million c-bills (though you can strip it and keep the components like the big XL engine, then sell the frame).

Did you like the Jenner because of the speed, because of the SRMs, or a bit of both? Have you tried out the Hunchback IIC trial mech?

Edit: You might also want to try out the Phoenix Hawk trial mech. It's not as quick as the Jenner IIC but it uses lasers instead of SRMs and has ECM to help avoid being targeted as much. Both the Hunchback IIC and Phoenix Hawk should be on sale, as they're both jumping mechs.

Edited by Ruccus, 13 April 2017 - 08:40 PM.

[Eddie Money]

I did try the Hunchback IIC, yes.

But I think I really liked being just so damn fast. That was a big part of why I felt I could be very effective in the games I played - harassing, getting behind people and unloading damage, and being impossible to pin down.

That said, I'm not sure what I'd be looking for in the Light Mechs market.

[Rogue Jedi]

Eddie Money, on 13 April 2017 - 07:07 PM, said:

It's a little disappointing that I'll need to save for a while before I can get something more challenging, but I guess that's life. Huntsman is what to go for, yeah?

Light Mechs are not cheep, they look cheep but that is a trap.
Lets take the Jenner IIC as that has already been mentioned, initial purchase price is about 6 million, it already has Double Heat Sinks, Endo Steel Internals and Fero Fibrus armor ^{(which would add about 2.5 million to the cost of most Lights)}, the 315 engine is too heavy for most good loadouts, so for a bit more tonage you will want an XL280 or XL300 engine costing 4.5 or 4.9 million for a total of about 11 million.
the IS Jenner costs about 3 million to putchase, but needs the same engine upgrade ^{(this time because switching to an XL can both reduce weight and increases speed)}, as well as endo, fero, double heat sinks, for a total cost of about 10 million.

compair those costs to the price of the Huntsman and factor in weapon upgrades and the Huntsman looks a bit cheeper to maybe the same total cost compaired to the Jenner or Jenner IIC

a good rule with Light Battlemechs is look at the purchase price, treble it and you have something close to the total battle ready price, however the Light Omnimechs ^{(Arctic Cheeter, Mist Lynx, Kit Fox, Adder and the forthcoming Cougar)} are a bit more expensive to buy and cannot upgrade engine, armor, structure and heatsink type so are a lot cheeper to outfit and often work out about half the price of a Light Battlemech.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 13 April 2017 - 10:34 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Eddie Money, on 13 April 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

I'd prefer to get everything all in one go, so a smaller mech is gonna work out anyway. How do Light Mechs tend to operate, especially early game when flanking with a bunch of mechs everywhere is so risky?

Basically you have two choices: go hunting or protect the pack.

Go hunting: you go out looking for trouble. Avoid other lights. Go after big slow lrm armed laggards who can't fight back effectively. Then carefully work your way towards the main fight from the enemy rear, back stab. by back stab. Problem with this is it's obviously risky, but also you often can't kill the enemies fast enough to truly swing the match for your team.

Protect the pack: scout a little but then stick close, provide ecm, chase away harassing lights, add your firepower to heavy mecs when they attack. This is less risky and more likely to bring the team victory, but not quite as fun as going hunting.



Besides the above there are also certain maps and situations when lights can lead the charge:

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 14 April 2017 - 01:43 AM.

[Koniving]

Flak Kannon, on 13 April 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

Honestly, there are only a few Inner Sphere Mediums to steer clear of early as you learn. The Vindicators, the BlackJacks, perhpas the Cicadas, and Trebuchets...Tho, all 4 of those I do really well in and really enjoi them greatly. Not bad mechs, but 'very' positional based.. needs a lot of battle field awareness at all time with the 4 especially.

steer clear of BJ's? That just doesn't sound right (and Blackjacks are pretty awesome.)

Also you forgot to add steer clear of Phoenix Hawks (until learning how to use and control the second crosshair; much like a Dragon the mech can't shine without that ancient knowledge that has been lost in the sands of time with this 'Armlock' b.s.)

Eddie Money, on 13 April 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

What's the Huntsman like in terms of playing? What is it best at doing?

Also, I would prefer to not spend money for the moment.

A Huntsman is a jack of all trades (much like the Hunchback). It's good at everything but it isn't 'best' at anything. Just damn good. So long as 81 (without leveling it up) kph is acceptable, you can do pretty much anything.

Eddie Money, on 13 April 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

I'm not very familiar with how Scouting in this game plays out and works.


EDIT: Okay, I've been looking at Light mechs, especially Jenners and Jenner IICs, and they seem amazing. What's the deal with Light mechs?

"Scouting" is a game mode in faction play that is 4 vs 4 and is limited to 55 tons or lighter. The mode requires hunting for randomly placed towers with "intel" to download, and both teams trying to collect it. One to obtain it (supposedly stolen by some unknown thing) to bring it to your team, the other to make sure it doesn't get stolen. The team stealing the intel needs to make it to a dropship that arrives soon after and make their escape. The other team has to stop them. Victories for either team pushes in real time towards earning buffs for either side of Invasion and other Faction play modes... these include satellite coverage and used to include a tactical nuke every two minutes (ahem, I mean "Long Tom Artillery").

In Scouting you use the bigger mechs to be your heavy bruisers and the faster ones to get the data.

Eddie Money, on 13 April 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

I'd prefer to get everything all in one go, so a smaller mech is gonna work out anyway. How do Light Mechs tend to operate, especially early game when flanking with a bunch of mechs everywhere is so risky?

This varies. Some are actually slow and heavy like mediums. Panther especially. Ravens ingeneral. Urbanmech. Adder.
Some are fast but squishy: Wolfhounds, Locusts, Commandos, Spiders. Myst Lynx.
Others are something in between. Jenners and Raven 3L. Firestarter. Kitfox. Artic Cheetah.

-------
Flanking is NOT Risky.
Getting caught, is.

The issue with slower mechs is they can get caught flanking. Lights are fast enough to get the heck out of dodge and leave their pursuers behind.

By Zhizhu's Lordred. (I'm Zhizhu's head guy in MWO btw.) This is if you can find them isolated in sets of 1 or 2.

By myself with another of Zhizhu's guys. You will notice we sweep in, harass something and either fight til its dead or if it's a threat we run.

For some lights it is all about speed.
For others, speed doesn't matter so much.

A 35 ton Raven pretending to be a stock 50 ton Hunchback and doing damn good at it.

To note: Though it was said to avoid Cicadas... A Cicada is basically a 40 ton Jenner. Here's one in action. Starts with killing an AFK, then a Stalker (XL engine) and then chasing a Jenner where it then fights the Jenner and a Cicada of an identical build [trial] before killing a Locust. The Cicada vs Cicada and Jenner fight is one of the most epic fights you will find on youtube.

-------

Here is what a Jenner can do from the perspective of one of the many people hunting one down.

This is also how you play a slow heavy. (The Jenner makes many appearances throughout, but shines as the last guy alive after 4 minutes and 30 seconds.
In the end, he is one of the top damage dealers and killers on his team. The other top spot is shared with him by a Stalker.

[Koniving]

Eddie Money, on 13 April 2017 - 08:41 PM, said:

That said, I'm not sure what I'd be looking for in the Light Mechs market.

Locust or Spider.

Locust if you want options for missiles.

Damn fast and damn fun. I know I got spider vids up there and I know they run kinda slow.... but I actually run my mechs slower on purpose -- I can't aim well at high speed.
Otherwise I find myself in situations like these.

I'm the colorful Spider. I could get this close easily but hitting him was about impossible (I was using a sniper's weapon, the ER PPC as I was more of a fast getaway sharp shooter build.)

Keep in mind, hit detection was also VERY bad at the time that video is taken, so even when I'm doing direct hits I'm getting cheated out of the damage I should be doing because at many instances there is no damage dealt despite it being an ER PPC (no minimum range unlike a standard PPC).

Trust me though, if you like fast... There ya go. There's also the Commando which aside from its 2D variant... can max out at the fastest possible in MWO.

Commandos are like soft Artic Cheetahs... if your only option was 1 to 3 missiles and 1 to 4 lasers... and only 4 hardpoints or less. But damn fast. Its 2D ECM variant also has its perks since you won't show up on radar until you get too close after installing the ECM.

Why a Locust, Spider or Commando?
Cheap and fast. You could probably outfit 4 to 5 Locusts with 15 million cbills, and since you're looking for just a mech of your own, a single Locust might set you back about 4 million; the Locust itself being cheap, an XL engine at the highest possible speed and a change to double heatsinks being the biggest pinches. If you go with a ballistic carrying Locust, you can forego the change to double heatsinks and just sport the MGs with a single laser without any problems, keeping the tab 1.5 million shorter.

Artic Cheetah would be the Clan equivalent of a Spider/Commando hybrid.

Edited by Koniving, 14 April 2017 - 06:43 AM.

[Koniving]

I just picked up 3 Marauder IICs and 3 Roughnecks. We'll see how they do.

Will update this post with some screens of initial setups.

Also picked up Battletech the PC game (became a backer). Been meaning to do that since forever but kept putting it off.

[Ragnahawk]

hunchback 4P

[Jingseng]

I always thought of the cicada as the bigger locust... due to similarities in name, loadout, shape, and characteristics.

Personally, I think of the Wolfhound as a brawler light - although with an xl 285, you can still hit 140+kph with respectable weaponry. Just, no ecm or jumping. And kinda large as lights go.

Panther I think of more as the sniping light. In the stock configuration, it is slow as hell for a light, but that ppc has range and power.

It takes a lot of skill to make a spider or locust effective, but when they are, they are right terrors. When they're not, they are easy kills.

The Raven would be the support/sneaker light, although there are some options for mounting firepower on them. You'll want to bump its speed up just a little more than stock though... they make for fairly obvious kill me first targets as lights go, because of their ecm and spotting/TAG/NARC, so the extra speed helps when it's time to check out. The same is more or less true of the Commando.

I would lastly point out that on the raven/commando, you'll probably have a harder time earning cbills... because you lack the tonnage/hard points to carry more than harassing weapons (generally speaking). Most of your utility will come from assisting your teammates and guiding them indirectly (if one target is a priority and you Narc/tag it and nothing else, guess where all the lrms go... but if you keep three different things narced and a fourth tagged well...). It's not impossible to do stellar damage in those mechs, but it does require stellar skill. They can be frustrating to earn/learn those skills on and make money for future purchases.

The Panther to a lesser extent, but also somewhat true. Because the panther also lacks tonnage and hard points to mount weaponry in threatening amounts. It has the er ppc i mentioned, that is true. And often a second. But that's also pretty much it. You need to be looking for damaged torso/legs and targeting them accurately (probably want an adv zoom module to start with).

Ultimately what you do is your own decision. Everyone who is weighing in, I would think, is simply trying to help you avoid reinventing the wheel of hard knocks. I started with a raven, and it was terrible as a starting point. The wolfhound was a little better, but not much. Something like a hunchback or a centurion or a crab would have gone a long, long way towards making my early career much less painful - there is a reason those mechs get blindly recommended so often.

I went with a timberwolf asap, and that wasn't any better. Because as awesome a platform as it is, I lacked the skill and know how to use it effectively. Shadowcats and Marauders went well for me after that.

There's 7 pages of posts here. Some of them are well reasoned and thought through. They show in their response that the writers have read what you wrote first, and address those points specifically and add in their own understanding and wisdom. Some of them are not. They blindly recommend, either based on biases or like a parrot, and evidence none of that. I would hope after 7 pages you have a better idea of whom to give more weight to and whom not.

Ultimately, no one (worth listening to) will make the decision for you. No one (who knows what they are talking about) will say "A is the right mech, next question." If you are waiting for one of us to tell you what to pick in that fashion, you have a very long wait (or else a short wait and tears) ahead of you.

[Malrock]

Because no one answered your question from much earlier in the thread. Yes a Griffin is a solid choice. Probably one of the best mediums on the IS side. You can get the 2N which comes with ECM - makes it harder for people to target you, and provides some protection to your allies as well. Also it can load up to 4 SRM6's if you move to an XL engine. Plus it is decent on the speed, but not as quick as the lights you are currently contemplating.

As to advice with regard to lights.... I don't have much. Just run fast and shoot things in the back. Unless you are on the other team in which case please try and face tank assault mechs. It is really only lights that can top out at 150 kph, (and an occasional medium) so you won't find that capability in any other weight class if that is the play style you are looking for.