202 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

Eddie Money, on 11 April 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

If that's the case, and second line is a role that requires coordination and a lot of experience for this game, then I should perhaps go back to my default role of brawling in big bruisers like I normally do in games.

In that regard, any suggestions? Jingseng listed a lot but... well, it's a lot.

Brawling? Hunchbacks come to mind, being durable and able to have a lot of closer ranged brawling weapons. You will need to learn to shield your hunch...

I will comment that most QP matches (Quick play, also called PUG groups, also meaning "Pick Up Group"... or referred to as solo play...) end up being mid ranged engagements, where your second line concepts may be more useful than you may think. A Jeagermech or a Riflemen could load up on some AC5s and med lasers and do well in that role, or even a Warhammer or Marauder even. A Hellbringer could also fill that role, or a Stormcrow if you want something more nimble and faster. ERMLs and LPLs would work well in that role...

There are a lot of options here. I can't just bring it down to one choice for you...

[Tier5 Kerensky]

I won't suggest any particular model but try to look for heavies. They are often flexible and powerful. Powerful as in pack enough weapons, and flexible as in have good combination of armor and speed.

They can make cbills nice and easy enough and that will lead you to all other mechs to try out.

[Koniving]

Eddie Money, on 11 April 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

If that's the case, and second line is a role that requires coordination and a lot of experience for this game, then I should perhaps go back to my default role of brawling in big bruisers like I normally do in games.

In that regard, any suggestions? Jingseng listed a lot but... well, it's a lot.

(It doesn't require that much coordination as long as you use situational awareness. So long as you're in quick play rather than faction warfare or group play, coordination is far overrated as you won't see much of it. Stick near a few assaults or heavies and you will be perfectly fine as a second line assault. I included at least two solo second line videos (The Mauler) in which the team was acting entirely on its own and all I did was exchange advancing and pulling back [this is pretty automatic for people when you are in the open]. The second is the Archer and there was absolutely no coordination and I'm sure you can see how well it turns out.)

I believe Jingsing comes from either a group play background or may have forgotten what the initial 3 tiers are like. You can roll with anything with little coordination in them, just remember to stay situationally aware and note that your sensors (it is NOT radar) will tell you only about what is in front of you (and what others see). It will never tell you about what is behind you on its own..

Tesunie, on 11 April 2017 - 10:22 PM, said:

Brawling? Hunchbacks come to mind, being durable and able to have a lot of closer ranged brawling weapons. You will need to learn to shield your hunch...

Poor guy is probably sick of hearing Hunchbacks as the greatest option ever. (Though 5 years into the game, I own every single Hunchback there is and they are still my go to after any break from the game.)
(Most recent vid I've made... naturally, it's a Hunchback.)

[Tesunie]

Koniving, on 12 April 2017 - 05:32 AM, said:

Poor guy is probably sick of hearing Hunchbacks as the greatest option ever.

Hey. When they are just so durable with such a great selection of different variants, it's hard not to suggest them.

I mean, many of us did start on a Hunchback. I still own mine, after I made the mistake of selling it. I had to correct that and buy it back...

I'd recommend Huntsmen, as they are my new go to mech for everything, but I also realize that the Huntsmen, as great of a mech it is, does require a little more skill than the average new user has. If you don't use those JJs, you are missing out on half of what the mech can do, and might as well take a Stormcrow at that point. (My opinion.) Though, of course, any new player who wishes to try and use one is always welcomed.

Only other mech I recommend to new players is the Crab for it's excellent hit boxes. It's a mech I feel grows in effectiveness as a pilot grows in skill. Only reason it isn't my top new player choice is it's lack of hard points beyond energy...

[Ertur]

I started with a Sarah Jenner, but I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. Not even my ex. I came to Hunchies pretty late, after Shadow Hawks, even, but came to really appreciate them. It's a solid line-up of mechs, and capable of punching above its weight.

[Koniving]

@Tsunie:

Crabs are great, too. They can pretty much do anything so long as you're okay with the energy only restriction.

Related but not to MWO

Spoiler

Though gotta say after a recent discovery, I love them a LOT more than I used to in Battletech/Megamek right now... Their sensors are freaking amazing so long as you can keep them functional in double blind. Shy of Cyclops' and not quite as good as god mode BAP in BT/MM... but... With a Crab in hand, I find I don't really need scout mechs. This said nothing compares to a mech with 3 levels of Comms equipment and Satellite access, or 2 levels of comms equipment and remote sensor drones. Did you know that mechs and vehicles with 3 levels of comms equipment can get into hacker fights over who has control over the satellite in orbit? At least until some ****** hits it with an Arrow IV or Long Tom.) The **** you can do in Battletech, man. It's amazing.. Mechwarrior does not do it justice.

You know, in my mech recommendations earlier, I put Huntsman as the proper Clan comparison to the IS Hunchback in MWO for the very same reasons you've listed.

(To the OP)
Front line brawler suggestion made simple?
Huntsman.
Second line support mech made simple?
Huntsman.

C'mon man it's beautiful, it's versatile, it's reasonably affordable but most importantly... it is easy to use.

You can turn this into just about anything, run just about anything, and it is in the perfect middle ground of all weight classes.

Then again...
Hunchback.

[Eddie Money]

Is the Mauler a second line mech? Interesting. In any case, I do think having a grasp of what to play on the front line in terms of heavies or assaults (or even mediums) would be nice.

[Malrock]

The EBJ is really the best choice for what you are looking for. It has a ridiculous amount of tonnage to boat weapons and is nice and maneuverable. It fits the skirmish type role that it sounds like you are looking for. Hit move hit. Yes it isn't super tanky but boats all the weapons, and isn't the uber priority target that the timberwolf is. I have had much greater success in the EBJ than I have had in the Timby. EBJ would be a solid choice for you, and what you are looking to do.

If you really want to brawl, ie shoot things as less than 300 m then Spirit Bear is amazing. But it can be difficult to get into brawl range on many maps. And you would have to use SRM's .

Edited by Malrock, 12 April 2017 - 07:46 AM.

[Koniving]

(Hunchback as a recurring suggestion for literally anything is probably gonna become a meme...)

[Tesunie]

Koniving, on 12 April 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

C'mon man it's beautiful, it's versatile, it's reasonably affordable but most importantly... it is easy to use.

You can turn this into just about anything, run just about anything, and it is in the perfect middle ground of all weight classes.

Yes. Behold it's utter perfection.

Behold that sleek design. How the legs look. That diamond chest piece. High mounted weapon points. Extra maneuverability from the well sculpted back jet ports...

There is now no other mech I need in this game. (Besides some IS mechs for that side of FP.)

No. Serious now. I use a FP drop deck of four Huntsmen... I'm not even joking...
(I must admit, I wasn't a fan of the Hunchback for it's looks. Not until this game when I found the 4J. Then it for the ugly missile launchers instead of the cool looking one it had before weapon meshes.)

Eddie Money, on 12 April 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

Is the Mauler a second line mech? Interesting. In any case, I do think having a grasp of what to play on the front line in terms of heavies or assaults (or even mediums) would be nice.

The Mauler would perform that role well, just realize it's an Assault class mech. It's going to be SLOW. But, it can do lasers. It can do ballistics. It can do missiles... Quad AC5 is a powerful build on it...

Malrock, on 12 April 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

If you really want to brawl, ie shoot things as less than 300 m then Spirit Bear is amazing. But it can be difficult to get into brawl range on many maps. And you would have to use SRM's .

Only thing to consider here is that the Spirit Bear Kodiak is a Hero mech, which means real money for it only. Not everyone is willing to spend real money on a game, or even have the money to do so...

[Malrock]

Tesunie, on 12 April 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

Only thing to consider here is that the Spirit Bear Kodiak is a Hero mech, which means real money for it only. Not everyone is willing to spend real money on a game, or even have the money to do so...

I understand that but I felt I would be remiss if I didn't mention the best brawling mech in the the game, when he mentioned he wanted to brawl. I still think he should get the EBJ.

[Koniving]

Eddie Money, on 12 April 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

Is the Mauler a second line mech? Interesting. In any case, I do think having a grasp of what to play on the front line in terms of heavies or assaults (or even mediums) would be nice.

Mauler can be either. In MWO ballistic-focused Maulers tend to be second line since ballistic weapons shoot very fast (requiring you to "stare" at the target.) Unlike in Tank games and World of Warships, "staring" at the enemy with the front side of your Mech is actually a bad idea. Since armor treats armor as hitpoints, you want to do everything you can to keep the hitpoints in each body section as high as possible by spreading the damage coming at you. (despite how Battletech has a Barrier Armor Rating, but this is only concerning penetration of through armor crits -- this doesn't exist in MWO)

As such, mechs with setups that require you to stare at the enemy to use them (we will call them "DPS" or Damage Per Second builds) such as lots of machine guns, rapid fire lighter autocannons, or chain fired lasers (fired in a sequence rather than all at once) are generally going to be second line.

It isn't so much what the mech is, but what you give the mech that determines its role.

If you're seriously wanting the hardcore front line stuff...

• Literally anything in the 55 ton weight class: Stormcrow, Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Wolverine, BUSHWACKER (My new brawler, though it is on the fence whether the Wolverine or the Bushwacker is better) etc.
  
• Literally anything in the 70 to 75 ton weight class: List is too long. But Night Gyr definitely comes to mind as among the top brass.
  
• The following 65 ton mechs: Ebon Jaguar. Hellbringer (DO NOT RUN STOCK ARMOR!!!!!), Jagermech / Rifleman (RUN A BIG STANDARD ENGINE!), Thunderbolt (The best heavy brawler you will find for the Inner Sphere; this thing can tank like an assault using a STD engine and good torso twisting skills.) (Roughneck when it comes out this month is guaranteed to be a front line brawler, it's a Shadowhawk with 10 extra tons, failure to be front line is impossible.)

• Anything in the 50 ton category EXCEPT: Trebuchet. Crab.

Bonus! Skirmish brawlers:

• Dragon. Quickdraw. Mad Dog. (Coincidentally all of these are 60 tons.)
  
• Victors. Zeus. 'Certain' Awesomes. (Coincidentally all of these are 80 tons.)
  
• Highlander and IIC, Mauler, Cyclops, literally any 90 ton mech.
  
• Trebuchet and Crab can skirmish brawl.

Skirmish brawler definition: A brawler that can get into a heated fight at close range and continue heavy fighting provided that it never stands still and keeps moving at full speed. (Unlike a normal brawler which can stop at any time and slow down without it being a life or death risk).

• Assault brawlers:
  
• Literally anything in the 85 ton category.
  
• Anything in the 95 ton category.
  
• Anything in the 100 ton category.

Edited by Koniving, 12 April 2017 - 08:11 AM.

[Tesunie]

Malrock, on 12 April 2017 - 08:01 AM, said:

I understand that but I felt I would be remiss if I didn't mention the best brawling mech in the the game, when he mentioned he wanted to brawl. I still think he should get the EBJ.

As a typical tip for new player threads, we don't mention Hero mechs. New players normally aren't that committed to the game to risk purchasing a Hero mech.

Otherwise I would have recommended the Hero Huntsmen, Phaket (spelling?). Take it with two ERLLs and four SRM4s, and it can do ANYTHING (and looks cool as well while you do it, an added bonus).
Long range? Don't care, have two ERLLs for that.
Close range? Don't care, have four SRM4s for that.
(Just... don't try to shoot the two weapons together too often. It gets hot if you do.)

For a new player in such a build, SSRM4s and a AP may be better suited to the skill level, but that's a choice for the pilot.


Speaking of which. The Huntsmen P variant can do almost the same thing as the Hero version. Load up the arms with the SRMs and the side torsos with the ERLLs, and same basic mech on a not-pay-for chassis. But, it also is missing that nice 30% C-bill boost.

Can I now change my recommendation to the Huntsmen P? Don't even need to adjust omnipods if desired, but if you don't your ERLLs will all be in one shoulder. That can be good and bad...

[Koniving]

I'd like to add one more little note:
I have 228 mechs (with another 6 on the way) and I enjoy all playstyles and playing literally any role. There's a lot of options for just about any role since you can change their equipment to almost anything. It isn't fixed like World of Tanks. But if you put it in WoT perspective, imagine that you can put the cannon of a Maus and the engine of an M18 Helllcat and shove them both into a Shermin. That definitely changes what a Shermin's ideal role is, now doesn't it? Same for mechs.

This said there are things that you cannot change which makes them excel at what they do.
The Stalker, for example is an 85 ton mech that due to the nature of its hitboxes and how destroyed side torsos work... if you run a STD engine and spread damage well enough, you can effectively take more damage than 3 one hundred ton Atlases and look like this:

Spoiler

Meanwhile, another 85 ton mech the Battlemaster.. also excels at many of the same things but it can't take nearly as much damage. It does however have higher engine caps and its torso twist (think turret) range (and speed) are both phenomenal for its weight (and out of this world compared to the Stalker which has the poorest torso twist range and speed).

[Xaat Xuun]

Eddie Money, on 12 April 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

Is the Mauler a second line mech? Interesting. In any case, I do think having a grasp of what to play on the front line in terms of heavies or assaults (or even mediums) would be nice.

was just in a match against you in that Mauler,
all I can say .. you need to move.
you shouldn't be standing in the open like that, maybe that was just an over sight you was alone in the open on that side. you was just begging to be shot and LRM
other then that . .
what did you think of that Mauler ?

[Eddie Money]

I guess the Mauler was pretty good? I dunno. I had one game that I dealt 557 in the trial Mauler, which is decent, I suppose.

@Kon the real issue I have is it seems to me like certain chassis must have certain strengths and weaknesses and I need to know what I'm getting into before I buy one.

For the record, I finished out my Cadet bonuses with about 15 million C-Bills.

[Xaat Xuun]

if I had to , just by that one match seeing how you play, I think just staying with Heavy and Assault Dakka , but one match against you really is not a good indicator how you play.

did you try the Hunchback IIC(C) ?
I just think the Hunchbacks are ideal for you, for starting

[Eddie Money]

I did try it on trial, and it did alright for me. I found I performed better in Assaults and Heavies, however.

I have found that I like how Dakka feels, though, repeatedly unloading rounds into a target.

[Koniving]

Gotcha.
And it is true, they each do. The trouble is there are so many mechs (and it turns out I have 236 looking just now to make the below image..) that there is too much to cover on a broad sense. Perhaps if you narrow it down to some that you like, we could give you more details on their merits and issues.


For instance, the Huntsman is akin to the Hunchback, though it lacks the tankability (it's average rather than supreme) and its engine is fixed but plenty fast. The merits is that unlike the Hunchback which requires many different variants, you could take any Huntsman and do any possible loadout, you never need more than one to do it either (because it is an Omnimech).

Pictured (since I got it through a preorder collection) are the Prime, Prime collector's version, B and then the A. None are using stock loadouts and the A focused heavily on ballistics -- I said there wasn't enough missiles in my life so I made an entire loadout that focused around SRMs and LRMs with a couple of ER PPCs and a TAG for fun. There's even missiles high on the shoulders. You might notice I can put a lot of weapons on it, or I can go for a few heavy weapons instead. Quite versatile.

---

Mauler: For 90 tons it actually has quite a few options. Ballistics are its mainstay (ballistic weapons hit hard and frequently and run cold). It always have some arm energy slots available and some can carry missiles as well. The missile slots are especially high which is good for hill peeking with SRMs or the upcoming MRMs. Ballistics are high on the chest but below the cockpit, this means you need to go a little higher than you might think to use them when it comes to hills. My main complaint is while it allows for so much weight, there never seems to be enough space for the big guns that everyone would like it to carry. There's also speed, but if you sacrifice a little of the massive firepower potential or shave off some ammo, speed can be fairly comparable.

Edited by Koniving, 12 April 2017 - 11:40 AM.

[Koniving]

For a taste of heavy mech dakka, snag the Jagermech JM6-DD. Like all mechs, for some reason MWO's pricing cuts the cost of super expensive arts down significantly and as such the XL engine (which is usually ungodly expensive) is pretty dang cheap. Load it with the ACs you like and enjoy. Most like to stack on similar ACs for simplicity, but you can even roll with a diverse setup like this:


God that is so much fun.

Annihilator when it releases this July is also bound to be dakka favoring at 100 tons. (There's also the King Crab currently available, another ballistic favoring mech).