164 replies to this topic

[Sniper09121986]

Calbearpig, on 13 April 2017 - 01:32 PM, said:

So, the Mad Dog can't have high mount ST ballistics when it's a low tier 60 tonner that is infamous for its ability to lose both STs before its CT, but somehow this is ok for the EBJ? PGI plz. Unnerf the goddamn mad dog.

Right, because we do have such a glaring abundance of Mad Dogs out there Summoner was brought back from the dead only by high torso energy mounts, exactly why Mad Dog cannot have any role other than missile boat? Or do the Spheroids insist on point-blank range 3 dmg ATM shower so much?

Mcgral18, on 13 April 2017 - 01:18 PM, said:

Personally, I like more guns than ECM
The not-Primes allow for an extra CT laser, instead of ECM

Making the Hero have the ECM LT means, again, the Hero is more powerful, because it can then take 6 Lasers (not on the Hero CT, but the Hero Pod) AND ECM

Which removes the trade off, and is again pure upgrade.

TercieI, on 13 April 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

Reminds me of when the ACH was new and there was real choice between 6SPL/ECM and 7SPL. I think having to choose between 5E/ECM and 6E has the potential to be very interesting. Poor IFR-Prime still got no reason to live, though.

Well, feel free to suggest alternatives. For instance Mist Lynx has its ECM in a left arm with no weapon hardpoints. I am willing to trade one of my Ferret's arms since none of them (or any other Ferret omnipods) have more than two hardpoints and most have only one anyway. Easier to shoot off than a torso by the way.

[TercieI]

Sniper09121986, on 13 April 2017 - 10:50 PM, said:

Well, feel free to suggest alternatives. For instance Mist Lynx has its ECM in a left arm with no weapon hardpoints. I am willing to trade one of my Ferret's arms since none of them (or any other Ferret omnipods) have more than two hardpoints and most have only one anyway. Easier to shoot off than a torso by the way.

Huh? I'm delighted with the current answer, have no need to suggest alternatives.

[Sniper09121986]

TercieI, on 14 April 2017 - 05:47 AM, said:

Huh? I'm delighted with the current answer, have no need to suggest alternatives.

This insightful and constructive input to the discussion is most appreciated. All I want is to find a workable solution for an issue I am butthurt about, now that PGI's giving in to forum crybabies going condition feral on the thinnest possible pretext has sanctioned it as an acceptable practice.

[Zarock]

Greetings Mechwarriors and -Devs
I preordered the Executioner Hero Variant and I have to say Im a bit disappointed now :/ I appreciate the apology, yet Im still missing those 2 Missile Hardpoints. My Loadout ideas were srm24 with artemis and small pulse lasers, or srm 36 with artremis (with some spl, too, maybe). I see that srm 36 plus small pulse lasers may be a bit strong and understand why it has been nerfed.
And I can still realise my srm 24 - small pulse loadout with the 2 missile hardpoint arm of another variant. But then the srms are spread over nearly the whole mech.. So why not remove the missile hardpoint out of the right torso and switch it into the left torso? Then we have one missile and one energy side. Just my idea, probaly no one wants to change it again, yet I wanted to share my thoughts on this.
Or maybe give those who are affected by the changes the new standard variant of their ordered mech as gift on top... ^^

[Fobhopper]

Luscious Dan, on 13 April 2017 - 08:21 AM, said:

Yeah it would be nice if they could run them past some meta-savvy players first and see what the reaction is.

As always, my favorite example is the KDK-3 and Spirit Bear having full quirks (mobility, armor etc.) at launch when the KDK-1 and -5 didn't have any. The laser arms were not what made the Kodiak scary

100% full credit for them being willing to take feedback and apply changes. Some people will criticize them for this, but I think it's just sensible behavior to ensure the final product is a positive addition to the game. Forethought is ideal, but willingness to take constructive criticism is also a good thing.

Well at the time, the meta was super laser heavy. Like if you ran anything other than ER lasers or pulse lasers, you were wrong and players were pretty vocal about how shiet tier all the other weapon systems were compared to lasers (and at that time, AC weapons and missiles were weaker than they are now because there was weapon rebalancing that happened after the kodiak was released). Until the KDK-3 was released and the ballistic master race came in and tore everyone a new blow hole. Seriously though, the meta at the time was laser heavy and I can see why (at the time) the KDK-3 'looked' like it needed the quirks to even be competitive against the other variants. And then players started playing around with the KDK-3 (which at the time most people considered the 'runt' of the mechpack) and when you saw quad UAC10's and quad gauss just utterly curbstomping in live play, and it needed to be nerfed, hard.

[A Man In A Can]

Vanguard319, on 13 April 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

Just looked at the loadout for the MLX-G, Though it wasn't listed in the civil war tech, I'm wondering if Machine gun arrays are being included.

It would be safe to assume they aren't.

stealthraccoon, on 13 April 2017 - 04:54 AM, said:

My Drizzle Kitteh haz grown up; so much ballistics! But what will be in place of Machine gun arrays? Another ton of armor? More ammo? Bacon?

The MG arrays on the MLX-G and ACH-E can easily, and very likely will be, replaced by .5t of the respective MG type's ammo.

Edited by ThatNumbGuy, 14 April 2017 - 03:05 PM.

[Nelos Kniven]

There is supposed to be a reason to get heroes. EXE just lost all chance from me. 2 more SRMs are not enough. SHC is worse, though the new variant makes the hero pretty much obsolete. and IFR is just the same as all the others, and with the new one the hero is useless.

Edit, also wanted the MDD but without high shoulder cannons, he cannot be the true gauss MDD-C

Edited by Gr Armpit, 15 April 2017 - 08:47 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Yep... one better arm pod is not enough reason for me to now order the shadowcat hero.

[Ertur]

re: Shadow cat. I think there's a way to keep the unique 2M side torso for the SC hero: move it from the right torso to the left torso. It would still be an upgrade, but pilots would have to choose between the 2M left torso or the ECM left torso from the B variant.

This has probably been brought up here; someone else brought it up in the other thread.

[Mcgral18]

Dee Eight, on 14 April 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

Yep... one better arm pod is not enough reason for me to now order the shadowcat hero.

Good
You aren't supposed to buy into superior Pods
You're supposed to buy for:

• early access
  
• Unique paintjob
  
• Cbill Bonus

Not pay into superior robots...not that it would help you

[RAM]

Very poor form PGI


RAM
ELH

[Nelos Kniven]

Quick note- no mech can be superior, the game is just too complex. It's like saying the Atlas is the most powerful mech and by having it you will always win. So, to those whining about OP heroes, they can't be OP. There will always be counters, and counters for the counters and so on.

[Koniving]

Some of these new cbill variants interest me more than the heroes do...

On a side note: Unique Geometry in addition to the unique paintjob (in which the same solution as previously done with other unique geometry mechs can be done for repainting) would really help to sell these things in the future.

<.< Actually if my limbs looked unique enough and could be placed on other Omni-configs.... That in itself would make the mechs worth buying for me. Even if it is just kept as a feature of Collector mechs... that'd still significantly increase the value to warrant their purchase over just getting the hero for 5 bucks less-- a unique variant rather than a copy of one I already have. I'd happily pay that extra 5 on several mechs if it meant unique geometry.

Ertur, on 14 April 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

re: Shadow cat. I think there's a way to keep the unique 2M side torso for the SC hero: move it from the right torso to the left torso. It would still be an upgrade, but pilots would have to choose between the 2M left torso or the ECM left torso from the B variant.

This has probably been brought up here; someone else brought it up in the other thread.

Probably the smartest thing I have heard all week.

Heroes or standard variants that give you a reason to choose between "ECM" or something else comparably good. I'd certainly sit and debate that choice on each build.

[Cy Mitchell]

Ed Steele, on 13 April 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

The C-Bill bonus would be attached to the camo and would only work when that camo is equipped. This would make everyone happy.

Not everyone. I run my own livery on all my Mechs. I do not use the hero camo in any but two cases. Having the C-Bill bonus tied to the camo would not work for anyone like me.

[Mcgral18]

Gr Armpit, on 15 April 2017 - 08:49 AM, said:

Quick note- no mech can be superior, the game is just too complex. It's like saying the Atlas is the most powerful mech and by having it you will always win. So, to those whining about OP heroes, they can't be OP. There will always be counters, and counters for the counters and so on.

Incorrect

There are objectively superior Robots and Weapons
isSLs counter nothing, they are Terribad


That is subject to change in the long term, but with PGI's balance history and rate of change...we've got a solid few months of whichever given superior item, to stay superior.


The game is not complex, at least not in the manner you say it is. It's Shooty Stompy Robots on the gameplay side, with movement and positions being the key points in deciding matches.

[MovinTarget]

If clans whine to get superior pods put back on hero mechs can I get my oxide, grid iron, and huginn un-nerfed too?

[Mcgral18]

MovinTarget, on 15 April 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

If clans whine to get superior pods put back on hero mechs can I get my oxide, grid iron, and huginn un-nerfed too?

Oxide does have the two extra M hardpoints in storage....how about that isJ2C? Except for double weight missiles


Vindi needs those 3 missiles added to a variant. Maybe the 1X

Grid Iron and Huggin need quirks, that's about all they can get.

[Ravenlord]

So the cry babies got their way? Welp, saves me some money I guess.

[Wibble in a Clan can]

Mcgral18, on 14 April 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

Good
You aren't supposed to buy into superior Pods
You're supposed to buy for:

• early access
  
• Unique paintjob
  
• Cbill Bonus

Not pay into superior robots...not that it would help you

Just to quibble a bit- You are also supposed to pay for:
* Not INFERIOR robots (Doesn't apply in the case of most of this hero wave- but does for previous clan hero's and a few IS)
* Unique build options.
Otherwise "early access" would be meaningless. Why pay for early access to something of no additional value?

I hate it when paying for a unique Hero results in a manifestly much poorer mech (and often worse Cbill earnings, even with 30% bonus) because of exaggerated pay to win fears hobbling it. Granted, Omni's don't risk this as much, but they do risk bringing nothing unique to the table (which is why recent Omni heroes' from clan packs have not been great value).

That said - I still feel PGI have made a noble call on this one, and most hero's in this wave still have potential to add diversity (assuming Omni set bonus's are not too high).

[NocturnalBeast]

Rampage, on 15 April 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

Not everyone. I run my own livery on all my Mechs. I do not use the hero camo in any but two cases. Having the C-Bill bonus tied to the camo would not work for anyone like me.

True, but they could also sell C-Bill or XP bonus cockpit items for MC.

Mainly my idea would allow anyone access to new Mechs as soon as they come out, but people would still have the option of buying it as a package with MC and getting the bonus XP- camo and any other cosmetic things that PGI might want to add.

Edited by Ed Steele, 15 April 2017 - 12:30 PM.