193 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

Cybrid 0x0t2md2w, on 13 April 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

the shadow cat has had possibilities but it sucks at tonnage, unlike the timby or dire you don't have separate variants with and without fixed masc/ecm/jumpjets. this strangles the mech on tonnage and viability for those hardpoints. the hero gives nothing new that a 1 ballistic 1 energy arm could grant for it's tonnage. the 2 missile right torso did for any brawlers as would another missile left torso later on, not that any would skimp out of the ecm anyway. if you want that ballistic arm to be special an energy or a missile hard point wont do anything there.

i dont agree, ya without MASC it could run Gauss better, but the main problem is it lacks hardpoints,
the SHC has a lack of Missile & Energy Hardpoints which is where all your Light Weapons are(Lasers & SRMs),
this Missile Hard Point could have helped with so many builds, and as ive Proposed HERE would help so much more,

[razenWing]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 April 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

What do you mean, you think whales don't care about this either? I am a whale, I've easily spent over $1000 on this game but that doesn't mean I want a monetization scheme that antognizes freemium players who we need to have a good population because that is what the end goal is always about, a good population.


They will if it is necessary to compete, but that doesn't mean they won't complain about having to do it either. If the Dragon Slayer was suddenly the ultimate assault again and I had to buy it again for some reason, doesn't mean I would be happy about doing it.


I'm not a free player anymore, that ship sailed 2 years ago, but that doesn't mean I've been happy with the scheme PGI has and I'm more masochistic than most freemium players are because I have a love for Mechwarrior that the general gaming community doesn't have.


Since I've made it clear I am a whale, feel free to put your foot in your mouth now.

No, you not as in "freemium," but you as in people that complain that this is p2w.

And what I meant by the stuck around comment is that if this model offended you, you should have left 2 years ago like you said. Why b7tch about it now? And maybe not YOU personally since I don't have time to research your past comment for the past 2 years, but at least in this incident, the heightened response from the collective "anti-p2w" people as a whole is the hypocrisy that I want to address. YOU as a person being at the forefront and I use YOU as a face collective representing the amorphous group behind you, that I do apologize for being personal.

But I am certainly shat not apologizing that the group that YOU represent, and the made up controversy that comes along with the Clan Wave 2. There has been 2 waves of heroes already, both presenting stronger and stronger mechs from the basic C-Bill variants... the IS release even got BUFF, but not once did you (again, not YOU personally) spoke out against it. Yet, somehow, SHC has a chance to become a unique identity of its own and EXE can be taken seriously as a competitive mech... all of a sudden, you (stress, not YOU personally) have a problem with it.

Think back on the "against" argument from the start. "You can't be beyond the c-bill capability or else its p2w, and I AM SO OUTRAGED" So if mechs that never had a certain element (E boat, missile boat) but can certainly do so with the new release, is now constitute as a p2w and cannot be tolerated? If TBF had 7 E hardpoints, and now it can do 8, that's not allowed because... why?

If you truly love Mechwarrior, you will know that certain hardpoints and even locations, performance, speed constitute an intent behind diversifying gameplay. While you guys are too busy meta 2 ppc and poptart everyone to death in QP T, I've been building mechs based on quirks and hardpoints and roleplaying how a mech would actually be featured in a simulated environment. But, it's not that your meta play is wrong, it's a different mentality that made your SJR a force to reckon with, and me... and by extension the crux of my unit just a casual unit.

What's infuriating right now, is that you don't respect this boundary, and took away something that we want to do, and justify that somehow, you are speaking out FOR all of us. We have multiple people in my unit looking forward to the SHC and EXE. Now? ZERO dollars on both of those mechs. But we will still buy the EBJ... still buy ACH, and since IFR isn't that much of an issue in terms of performance, some of us will still buy it. So my point here is that you (again, not YOU personally) don't own the speaking rights for whales. We all enjoy the game in our own separate ways, stop trying to decide for us what's good and what's not.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

razenWing, on 13 April 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

And what I meant by the stuck around comment is that if this model offended you, you should have left 2 years ago like you said. Why b7tch about it now? And maybe not YOU personally since I don't have time to research your past comment for the past 2 years, but at least in this incident, the heightened response from the collective "anti-p2w" people as a whole is the hypocrisy that I want to address. YOU as a person being at the forefront and I use YOU as a face collective representing the amorphous group behind you, that I do apologize for being personal.

The reason you are seeing a heightened response is because MOST of us don't want a return to the days of the Dragon Slayer and Ember. That was a stupid era not just because of the strength of poptarting but also because of the strength of the heroes at the time. PGI has not been the best at making heroes unique but equal in their history whether it be overnerfing a perfectly fine hero to avoid P2W (or P2O if you have the narrow view of P2W) or introducing variants that are clearly strong compared to all other options (DS, Misery, Oxide, and Ember are good examples from previous eras). So why go through all this effort of screwing up just to avoid P2W when you could potentially make the EXACT same revenue and still sell heroes for c-bills and avoid this whole debacle.

razenWing, on 13 April 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

So my point here is that you (again, not YOU personally) don't own the speaking rights for whales.

Neither do you, that is a double-edged sword argument.

[razenWing]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 April 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

The reason you are seeing a heightened response is because MOST of us don't want a return to the days of the Dragon Slayer and Ember. That was a stupid era not just because of the strength of poptarting but also because of the strength of the heroes at the time. PGI has not been the best at making heroes unique but equal in their history whether it be overnerfing a perfectly fine hero to avoid P2W (or P2O if you have the narrow view of P2W) or introducing variants that are clearly strong compared to all other options (DS, Misery, Oxide, and Ember are good examples from previous eras). So why go through all this effort of screwing up just to avoid P2W when you could potentially make the EXACT same revenue and still sell heroes for c-bills and avoid this whole debacle.


Neither do you, that is a double-edged sword argument.

Nope, I don't, you are absolutely correct. That's why I mentioned how people like me are not pleased at the move, not everyone or every single player in existence.

[Pariah Devalis]

I had to vote "No."

Specifically because of two reasons:

• it involves altering a stock configuration in the SHC-H
  
• putting 1E in the LT of the Hero would provide a wider range of build options, and would effectively compete with the 1M LT, ECM LT, and ... potentially 3B Heavy Machine Gun LT.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 13 April 2017 - 05:03 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Pariah Devalis, on 13 April 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

I had to vote "No."

Specifically because of two reasons:

• it involves altering a stock configuration in the SHC-H
  
• putting 1E in the LT of the Hero would provide a wider range of build options, and would effectively compete with the 1M LT, ECM LT, and ... potentially 3B Heavy Machine Gun LT.

well the IFR & HBR both got non Cannon Variants added,
why shouldnt the SHC get a non Cannon Variant to help it out?

[Pariah Devalis]

Andi Nagasia, on 13 April 2017 - 06:01 PM, said:

[/list]well the IFR & HBR both got non Cannon Variants added,
why shouldnt the SHC get a non Cannon Variant to help it out?

Because they used the Cannon H variant instead of an invented X variant. They already invented the P, for whatever reason. Besides which, that was the lesser of the two reasons why I said no. Giving the hero a 1E LT omnipod would be a nice move. Not only would it avoid reducing the total hardpoints the hero would provide, but would balance out nicely with the other options presented by the C-Bill pods.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 13 April 2017 - 08:01 PM.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Right hand option, and option for LAA would be nice, a LT 2E option would be interesting "ECM or perfect convergence" dynamic. As it is, 2xATM3 2xATM6 with 6 tons of ammo with the ATM6's snuggled up in the ST's makes for a nasty little mech. So, I will get the Cbill pods. Hero I will likely pick up and move my Prime build over to because that 1B 1E arm will be optimal for my current 1xUAC10 2xERML build. So I like it, but, I feel it is mixed that they didn't like give a 2E arm or something to the Shadow Cat.

[Wildstreak]

Andi Nagasia, on 12 April 2017 - 09:23 PM, said:

Forget the H.
Tell PGI to look at the C variant that comes out 1 year earlier.
C-RT, 1 Missile for NARC, similar to Hero.
C-LT, 1 Energy
Offer both C side torsos then figure out if compensation needed for the 1E + 1B RA.
Also, they do not need to offer a whole variant for CB yet. Remember when Wave 1 was new, they offered the Kit Fox-C RA for ECM without having the C variant available so no LA.
They can just offer the SHC-C side torsos without the whole variant.

Should look into this for all the Clan Hero II chassis.

[Archangel.84]

Posted this in the sorta wrong thread but applies here more.

"Well, I know that I was thinking about buying Mishipeshu because Lucian Carns was a real cool cat in the lore... but the ongoing hardpoint starvation made me really leery. This just confirms it. And the H variant is rather a joke in that regard too.

Also: no 2M side torso because it's an additional M hardpoint over the A. But 1E1B to the right arm is fine despite the Prime arm only having 1B? "

Edited by Archangel.84, 13 April 2017 - 08:45 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Pariah Devalis, on 13 April 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Because they used the Cannon H variant instead of an invented X variant. They already invented the P, for whatever reason. Besides which, that was the lesser of the two reasons why I said no. Giving the hero a 1E LT omnipod would be a nice move. Not only would it avoid reducing the total hardpoints the hero would provide, but would balance out nicely with the other options presented by the C-Bill pods.

the Invented SHC-P is just the SHC-J released Early, both have the same Hardpoints in the same locations,
so with that its not an invented Variant, its just a Variant based on another from the future,

[Malrock]

Yes please. +1 missle hard point for the Hero and the H.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Andi Nagasia, on 12 April 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

did the SHC deserve this nerf?
the IFR made out ok, the EXE not so much but still it have options available,
these changes add nothing to what you can do with a SHC,

Our new heroes were fine to begin with. The fact that PGI caved in to the IS crybabies and only days after announcing them is pathetic.

Frankly, after the IS'ers cried about our new heroes and got some of them nerf'ed a bit, I feel that I should start complaining about the IS heroes, starting with the Pirates Bane and Oxide. From there, I would go to the fact that the IS'ers are getting many more new toys to play with come this July when the timeline moves up. Speaking of which, I find it very convenient for the IS'ers that the timeline is being moved up to 3067 since the very next year is when we develop the HAG (Hyper-Assault Gauss) Rifle, meaning we will not be getting that anytime soon. Additionally, even though it was developed in the correct timeline (3057), I do not see us getting our Streak LRM's either. To add insult to injury, the IS'ers are also getting a mech designed by the Clans (the Annihilator).

In summery, to all of the IS crybabies out there, I say this: If you have time to cry, then you have time to actually get good! For crying out loud (no pun intended), your mechs have the highest DPS in the game (especially your laser vomit that we cannot possibly match)! So quit crying and downloading your "skills" and get actually good! Otherwise, go back to COD!

Edited by Jep Jorgensson, 14 April 2017 - 10:10 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

the IFR made out with the Changes,
the EXE with the Hero Points can still Run 7SPL + 4SRM6+A with 19DHSs,

the SHC lost all its Hero Bonuses, and a 1E 1B isnt ganna help much,
maybe with a 4MG 2LPL +ECM but not much else,

Which is why i feel the loss of the 2M Hero RT should be reverted(Please Vote Here)

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 April 2017 - 11:00 AM, said:

the IFR made out with the Changes,
the EXE with the Hero Points can still Run 7SPL + 4SRM6+A with 19DHSs,

the SHC lost all its Hero Bonuses, and a 1E 1B isnt ganna help much,
maybe with a 4MG 2LPL +ECM but not much else,

Which is why i feel the loss of the 2M Hero RT should be reverted(Please Vote Here)

While yes it sucks that the hero lost the 2M, I don't see the 2M point being a huge boon either. Which is why I voted yes, it isn't game breaking to have in, with the cbill pods you get 5 missile hard points possible, or 4 with ECM. Even then you lose majority of your firepower with the RT which it is a shadow cat so that is easy to do. But, just the option of 2M is nice to have and makes the hero that much more, well, interesting and opens up some builds, hence, again, I vote yes. 4 Slots isn't much to work with, sure 2xSRM6 or 2xSRM4+A, not a bad little bit of firepower for that component.

Could run 2xHML, one in each arm, slap the B LT on for ECM, 2xSRM4 in the RT, slap a UAC5 in the RA, 2.5 tons of ammo for the UAC5, 1.5 for the SRM4's, full armor. Not amazing, but, has a punch and the UAC let's you punch while the HML's cycle and pair up with the SRM4's cycle time nicely for decent DPS.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Jep Jorgensson, on 14 April 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

I feel that I should start complaining about the IS heroes, starting with the Pirates Bane and Oxide.

You mean one of many weak IS lights?
Pirates Bane is far from the best Locust, the fact the Oxide is the best IS Jenner is problematic too, but it still isn't near as powerful as other lights.

Jep Jorgensson, on 14 April 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

To add insult to injury, the IS'ers are also getting a mech designed by the Clans (the Annihilator).

Clans not getting the Annihilator is far from an insult considering it would be bad even with Clan tech.

[MischiefSC]

I think there were better options to fix the SHC but that's not new.

However I'm pleased PGI responded to the concerns and so I bought $400 worth of mech packs and some MC (because I ran out playing dress-up with my new robbits).

I'm sure there are plenty of people outraged that they can't buy an advantage to pretend they are better than their skills allow. Good - that confirms, absolutely, that PGI made the right choice.

If you want to win more try getting good at the game. The only advantage you should have is the product of your skill and effort in the game.

As a side note, we need more decals. Short phrases like what came with the Faction Camos for Davion, the Urbie, etc. I need Leg Day for my Roughneck, I need Pew Pew for a lot of stuff and all manner of fun/funny phrases.

Like Bannana Hammock for the front of my Atlas. Bear Cavalry, Good Dog, etc.

Edited by MischiefSC, 14 April 2017 - 11:37 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 14 April 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

You mean one of many weak IS lights?
Pirates Bane is far from the best Locust, the fact the Oxide is the best IS Jenner is problematic too, but it still isn't near as powerful as other lights.

i think all JR7 have that Problem, its just Odd hit Boxes,
but also the BL-KNT Hero got a Ballistic LA which can Mount a AC20 which Players Complained about to get,
but no one was calling power Creap when that was done even though no other non Energy BL-KNT exists,
not that im complaining about that, its just i dont think the SHC-Hero RT nerf was needed,

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 14 April 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

Clans not getting the Annihilator is far from an insult considering it would be bad even with Clan tech.

it will be interesting, you can mount 3AC20s which may not be super viable but it does offer an interesting Choice,

[Felicitatem Parco]

I don't think that Hero Mech releases should be used as balancing measures.

Mech balance for outdated designs should be accomplished outside the Hero sales.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 April 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

i think all JR7 have that Problem, its just Odd hit Boxes,
but also the BL-KNT Hero got a Ballistic LA which can Mount a AC20 which Players Complained about to get,
but no one was calling power Creap when that was done even though no other non Energy BL-KNT exists,
not that im complaining about that

No one was calling power creep because AC20s are in a bad spot (so I doubt that the AC20-6 MPL build will be better than just pure MPL vomit), and the Jenners may suffer from hitbox issues, the Oxide is still the best of them and has been for a long time now sadly.

Andi Nagasia, on 14 April 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

, its just i dont think the SHC-Hero RT nerf was needed,

That pod may have been nerfed but the Shadow Cat came out better for it because an asymmetrical SRM build that gets ECM is just weaker than a symmetrical SRM build.

Andi Nagasia, on 14 April 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

it will be interesting, you can mount 3AC20s which may not be super viable but it does offer an interesting Choice,

Not being super viable doesn't make it an interesting choice, at least when it comes to increasing depth for this game. THat's like saying the boom-cada offers something unique that was totally worth it (well not quite, but you get the idea).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 14 April 2017 - 11:57 AM.