193 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Andi Nagasia, on 17 April 2017 - 08:35 PM, said:

@Yeonne Greene
well a BJ-1X, 290LFE, 6ERML, 1LL, 14DHS, (104.4Kph)(39Damage@400m@37(-5%heat=35Heat)
a SHC with 4ERML, LPL, 16DHS (97.2Kph)(41Damage@400m@34,

So it's less hot to fire once, but still hotter, and now it also applies against a smaller capacity and dissipates more slowly. It's also not 400 meters, it's 360; the ERML are the lowest common denominator, and they dictate the range.

...

No. Try again.

Quote

the BJ also has +6Structure mostly everywhere,
where the SHC because Clan Lasers has more Duration on their lasers,
so its (+2Damage, -1Heat +2DHSs) vs (Structure & less Laser Duration)

Pitiful structure quirks that do damn diddly squat because it's a laser boat and has to face stare and because that's not enough of a boost to really change the number of shots it takes an opponent to remove a part. I'd trade those +6 for a cXL any day.

Stagger-firing isERML/isML to avoid ghost heat results in a 1.5 second burn versus the Shadow Cat's 1.15 second burn. So 40 over 1.5 versus 41 over 1.15, dramatically in the Shadow Cat's favor. If we use your ill-advised build above, we get 39 over 1 versus 41 over 1.15, a very slight advantage to the BJ-1X but not enough to matter because you're going to be hitting it from outside its optimum and because that difference is not enough for your reaction to kick in.

So, yeah, no. I don't buy it.

Edit: Also, above, did you mean an 270 LFE? That gets you to 104.5 kph, which is what the SHC has, except the SHC would also have MASC and jump jets in addition to greater range, damage, and cooling. If you meant 290 LFE for 112.2 kph, you only get 12x DHS in, possibly 13 with some armor stripping and Light Ferro, which gives you slightly better speed for dramatically inferior cooling. I don't have a problem with the SHC having the same firepower and cooling and near-enough speed as the BJ-1X, I have a problem with it having all of that and also having the jumping, the ECM, and the MASC.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 17 April 2017 - 08:56 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Yeonne Greene, on 17 April 2017 - 08:44 PM, said:

So it's less hot to fire once, but still hotter, and now it also applies against a smaller capacity and dissipates more slowly. It's also not 400 meters, it's 360; the ERML are the lowest common denominator, and they dictate the range.
...
No. Try again.

with the 10% quirk(most every IS Mech gets), that 360 becomes 396(almost 400)
im also assuming that they will maintail IS lasers x2 Max range to balance vs Clan lasers,
so yes it is, and no i dont think i have to try again,

Yeonne Greene, on 17 April 2017 - 08:44 PM, said:

Pitiful structure quirks that do damn diddly squat because it's a laser boat and has to face stare and because that's not enough of a boost to really change the number of shots it takes an opponent to remove a part. I'd trade those +6 for a cXL any day.

first off it does matter as the Clan Mech does have to Stair longer & has less Health,
also its only 2damage per shot less, so its not like the Clan mech will be out pacing it too much,

Yeonne Greene, on 17 April 2017 - 08:44 PM, said:

Stagger-firing isERML/isML to avoid ghost heat results in a 1.5 second burn versus the Shadow Cat's 1.15 second burn. So 40 over 1.5 versus 41 over 1.15, dramatically in the Shadow Cat's favor. If we use your ill-advised build above, we get 39 over 1 versus 41 over 1.15, a very slight advantage to the BJ-1X but not enough to matter because you're going to be hitting it from outside its optimum and because that difference is not enough for your reaction to kick in.

why would you be stagger firing 6ERML + 1LL? LL and 6ERML dont have Ghost Heat,
and assuming that ERML dont see much of an increase in duration as i see heat mostly balancing them,
you are looking at the BJ-1X getting all its lasers out in 1sec, which is 0.15 quicker than Clan(not much but something)
yes the SHC will be cooler, but not that much cooler, and as the beam ends quicker dissipation starts sooner for the 1X,

Yeonne Greene, on 17 April 2017 - 08:44 PM, said:

So, yeah, no. I don't buy it.

then you should look again, i think its much closer than you think it will be,

Yeonne Greene, on 17 April 2017 - 08:44 PM, said:

Edit: Also, above, did you mean an 270 LFE? That gets you to 104.5 kph, which is what the SHC has, except the SHC would also have MASC and jump jets in addition to greater range, damage, and cooling. If you meant 290 LFE for 112.2 kph, you only get 12x DHS in, possibly 13 with some armor stripping and Light Ferro, which gives you slightly better speed for dramatically inferior cooling. I don't have a problem with the SHC having the same firepower and cooling and near-enough speed as the BJ-1X, I have a problem with it having all of that and also having the jumping, the ECM, and the MASC.

initially i was going to use a 270 but i had an extra ton and not enough room for another DHS so it ended up into Engine,
and yes when i built it in Smurfy's it had 14DHSs an LFE290 the free tonnage turns the XL290 into a LFE290,
yes the SHC also has MASC and JJ, but comparativly the BJ has better hitboxes than the SHC,
has more Health, goes faster, and has similar fire power, so i think its pretty balanced,

im sure if you had both builds im sure it would be a rather even fight

[Andi Nagasia]

you also could go LFE270 trade Ferro with Light Ferro,
and toss in another DHS putting it to 15 which is 1DHS away from the ECM less SHC build,
but now we are Splitting hairs,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 17 April 2017 - 09:38 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Andi Nagasia, on 17 April 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

with the 10% quirk(most every IS Mech gets), that 360 becomes 396(almost 400)
im also assuming that they will maintail IS lasers x2 Max range to balance vs Clan lasers,
so yes it is, and no i dont think i have to try again,

You are venturing into very sketchy territory if you think the quirks are going to stay as they are, an extremely unsafe assumption given the presence of the new skill tree by that point which, by the way, also provides benefits to the Clan 'Mechs. In fact, the BJ was one of the 'Mechs with conspicuously absent weapon quirks in the PTS. The x2 is likely, though, so I will give you that.

However, you still need to try again, because of all the crap below (notably, you got the engine weight for a 290 LFE wrong):

Spoiler

Quote

first off it does matter as the Clan Mech does have to Stair longer & has less Health,
also its only 2damage per shot less, so its not like the Clan mech will be out pacing it too much

First off, no it doesn't because 0.15 seconds of additional stare doesn't mean anything, especially not when you can MASC up to poke faster.

Second, it's 2 damage per shot less, as long as you are within optimal. Otherwise it's more than 2 damage per shot. It adds up. You might call it insignificant, but it's the same reason why the splash on the cERPPC matters.

Quote

why would you be stagger firing 6ERML + 1LL? LL and 6ERML dont have Ghost Heat, and assuming that ERML dont see much of an increase in duration as i see heat mostly balancing them, you are looking at the BJ-1X getting all its lasers out in 1sec, which is 0.15 quicker than Clan(not much but something) yes the SHC will be cooler, but not that much cooler, and as the beam ends quicker dissipation starts sooner for the 1X,

Did you not read what I wrote? The "ill-advised build" I mentioned is the one you suggested, and that wasn't what I said to stagger fire on. You would have to stagger-fire the Mediums build.

Dissipation on the SHC outpaces the quicker start on the BJ-1X. Negligible in either direction. Ends up a wash, though the point is that it shouldn't.

Quote

then you should look again, i think its much closer than you think it will be,</p>

Having played with you before, in a controlled environment even, I know you are not qualified to make this judgement call. We can both throw numbers around all we want, but I do believe I have the edge in both experience and expertise here and I know you are assigning too much weight to certain deltas (like those +6 structure quirks and the extra +8 kph run speed) and not enough to others (like the presence of jump jets and the +16 kph MASC speed).

Quote

initially i was going to use a 270 but i had an extra ton and not enough room for another DHS so it ended up into Engine, and yes when i built it in Smurfy's it had 14DHSs an LFE290 the free tonnage turns the XL290 into a LFE290, yes the SHC also has MASC and JJ, but comparativly the BJ has better hitboxes than the SHC, has more Health, goes faster, and has similar fire power, so i think its pretty balanced

The 290 LFE is 19.5 tons in MWO, not 19. If you are going to mock it up in Smurfy, you need to do it using the 260 SFE. It will look like this (last DHS goes into the engine). A 280 LFE would be the superior option, which is why I chose it earlier; you even get one more DHS out of it.

So I'm down two heatsinks, down two points of damage, down 20 points of armor, and possibly up by three points of heat (5 heat ERML, but we have no idea, could even be 4 with the MedLas reduced to 3), all to avoid ghost from the otherwise preferable 8xMedLas and get an extra 8 kph which won't matter because the SHC will be able to outrun me on any reasonable stretch. It can also out-turn me in any closer engagement, poke faster from cover, hit me for full damage from farther away, and get to places that are more advantageous to fight from and physically impossible to access for the BJ-1X. If we use the 280 LFE, the run speed gap is down to a mere 4 kph.

Also, the SHC has the better hit-boxes. I have no idea where you people get the opposite impression, but the SHC is small, it can shield its side torsos with its CT and arms. It spreads damage <strong>extremely</strong> well. Like, both-arms-and-a-torso-gone-and-hopping-on-one-leg-every-time well. The BJ? All it has going for it is that it's fairly small, but it can't shield anything with anything. It only appears durable because the general population is garbage at this game and most players in Shadow Cats are either using Streak 6 crutches or using long-range poke builds (or LRMs) that can't really fight back when you get close, making them seem like easy prey more often than not. And while both chassis can abuse JJ fluttering, the 1X specifically cannot. At any rate, we're talking about laser boats, so you just shoot either one while it's firing and it either continues to stare and you both get cored or it twists away, giving you the damage initiative that it can't get back unless you give it up.

The only tangible drawback the SHC would have in this whole arrangement is that marginal increase to beam duration. That's it. I'm not okay with that, that's not enough for all the other perks it has built into the 'Mech.</p>

Besides, you can already dump 41 damage in one laser burn already using the SHC. You just have to deal with some armor shaving (2 less than what's required to make your 290 LFE BJ-1X work), jams, ballistic trajectories, and no ECM, all of which are fair trades for being able to carry that firepower with that range at that speed and with that agility and mobility. What you want works out to being a bypass of that equation, and I'm not okay with that. It's a very solid 'Mech, players like McGral18 only call it SadCat because they only really play the pinnacle 'Mechs in the game and use those as the measuring stick (plot-twist: I would say most of those are actually too good, not the other way around).</p>

Quote

im sure if you had both builds im sure it would be a rather even fight</p>

It really won't be that close. What will happen is that it will sacrifice one DHS for the ECM and that will confound and slow down your target acquisition, giving the SHC a moment of free damage. It can also quickly move to and fire from unexpected locations, making it hard to deflect incoming damage effectively. Your shorter burns won't provide you much help until you close to within the optimal range of those ERML, which I have no reasonable expectation will remain quirked, after which point you have already received more damage. You won't have a heat-curve good enough to overcome that.</div>

At any rate, my concern isn't going up against the BJ-1X in a 1v1, it's which one do I take if I have 45 tons available on the team. The ECM, Jump Jets, cXL, and superior heat profile on the SHC for the same damage all contribute more to aid the team. Right now I have to make the choice between firepower and flexibility when looking at the two. Once upon a time, before the HBK-IIC and before the heavy-handed quirk nerfs, both saw use in competitive games, the 1X as a lighter weight fire support and the SHC as a flanker. With 5xE on the SHC, there's no choice at all because it can perform both roles.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 17 April 2017 - 11:26 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Rusharn, on 17 April 2017 - 06:55 AM, said:

If the H adds a fifth missile slot, you're now in the range were the Shadow cat might be able to compete in faction scouting on more equal terms with the Griffins and Centurions, where a limited ammo count is not as much of a limitation.

So that must be it, people were thinking of doing Scat Heroes similar to Griffin-2N for 10 tons lighter, all SRM with no other weapons and ECM.

Jep Jorgensson, on 17 April 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

The Shadow Cat is not a good LRM boat to begin with (and I am saying this as a LRM pilot) so I do not think you need to be too concerned with that. Frankly, with an extra missile hardpoint, maybe then it would not suck as much as a brawler in scouting.

Scat does decent as a LRM boat if built and used right.

Andi Nagasia, on 17 April 2017 - 05:47 PM, said:

lets not get things confused in alot of ways MASC is a hindrance not a buff for the SHC,
also their are other Mechs that are better than the SHC(See NVA, HMN, and SCR)

MASC has never been a hindrance for me.
Being able to change from forward/reverse to the opposite when poking and quick turning increase maneuvering and lessen exposure time.
Speed boost is secondary.

Andi Nagasia, on 16 April 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

yes OmniMechs are not battleMechs, id say battle Mechs are Far Superior,
OmniMechs can change their hard Points, but they pay the Price for it with not being able to Change Fixed Equipment,
-
BattleMechs Enjoy Full TT MechFactory Ccustomization, such as would take years to do in Lore,
but OmniMechs dont even have their TT Construction Rules, they have far less than they should have,
-
a BL-KNT with Balistic arms, gives it a difrent flavor and benefit other BL-KNTs dont have,


should we all Demand C-Bill Versons of these IS heros,
we are talking about Options non MC mechs are Privy too,

as you said BattleMech arnt OmniMechs, but both are Mechs,
i feel it cuts both ways, but we dont see People crying out for this to happen,


but me asking for the Hero to get its 2M RT back,
and +1M be added to the LT of the H(2M LT) as a balancing factor,

yes the SHC needs a non Cannon Variant with more Energy, but thats not what we are discussing here,
what we are discussing is the SHC Hero being barely more than an over glorified Chapion with pretty camo,
-
i think they would have kept the SHC Heros 2M RT, and like the IFR & HBR made a non cannon Variant to fix it,
but instead we got the SHC-H and the hero was then balanced off that lesser SHC Variant, which i disagree with,

also what type of Quirks would be needed to make a Mech with 2 hard Points viable for the 8/8 Set?

What you are missing out on those IS Heroes you mention.

LCT ECM is an edge but not so much that you see it in serious play in large numbers like when the Dragon Slayer was such a big deal.
JR7 same, is ammo limited and was nerfed making it less seen.
CDA different but not in a way that can be abused.
PHX same as CDA.
QKD same as CDA.
ARC same as CDA.

New IS Heroes are only speculated on like Wave 2 & 3 and I definitely do not expect the Crab Hero to make waves.
Wolfhound with ECM is good but without JJs still lower than the CB Cheetah. Only role this might have is a goto Light for CW and an alternate to the 2LL ECM Raven and that darn Spider, that is a good thing though maybe bad for a Hero.
Enforcer remains to be seen, the meta build is 3LL & 2ML, this does 1 ML less, cooler running and ECM.
Grasshopper is the 5H with lower hardpoints moved and loses the Head M for an Arm B. People prefer the higher torso mounts over anything in arms so you already have CB version of it in the 5H and 5P.
Knight is the Knight, lotta lower mounted weapons, at 75 tons I would expect serious players choosing the Marauder over the Knight on the IS side. Swapping Energy for a B + M arm does not make it better.

Of those Resistance Heroes, I only expect the Wolfhound in CW and the Enforcer to have a potential (not definite) impact.

As for the Scat, given it seems the concern is using the Scat as a 10 ton lighter Griffin-2N, seems a viable complaint, Clan already have the SRMcrow that runs 5SRM with no ECM, they do not need this.

Quirks are practically going away with new Skill Tree next month.

[Lightfoot]

I looked over the new Hero variants and the original Shadowcat Hero did not have enough new hardpoints to be worth adding for $15-$20. The Shadowcat is starved for hardpoints and payload and MASC only grants it 3 kph over just running a 300XL for the same weight and so is not Clan-Tech accurate. MASC should get it to around 130 kph plus.

What PGI is thinking with the Shadowcat hardpoint layout is beyond me since it is not anywhere near the battle-value of the ACH, Nova, or Storm Crow. Shadowcat is more popular because of it's Lore and how it was portrayed in MW3 and MW4, not because it is the best medium in MWO.

Like I say, not buying any new Shadowcat that doesn't address it's MWO hardpoint and payload deficiencies.

There are other Clan Heroes that do add some interesting options, but I am not telling which ones if PGI is going to make last minute changes after the items are already on sale. Ridiculous.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Lightfoot, on 18 April 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

I looked over the new Hero variants and the original Shadowcat Hero did not have enough new hardpoints to be worth adding for $15-$20. The Shadowcat is starved for hardpoints and payload and MASC only grants it 3 kph over just running a 300XL for the same weight and so is not Clan-Tech accurate. MASC should get it to around 130 kph plus.

What PGI is thinking with the Shadowcat hardpoint layout is beyond me since it is not anywhere near the battle-value of the ACH, Nova, or Storm Crow. Shadowcat is more popular because of it's Lore and how it was portrayed in MW3 and MW4, not because it is the best medium in MWO.

Like I say, not buying any new Shadowcat that doesn't address it's MWO hardpoint and payload deficiencies.

There are other Clan Heroes that do add some interesting options, but I am not telling which ones if PGI is going to make last minute changes after the items are already on sale. Ridiculous.

No argument here. The Shadow Cat Hero is mediocre at best with the pitiful amount of hardpoints on it and definitely not worth a single dollar, much less the $15 they are asking for it. I can put together a Shadow Cat from the variants already available that is far superior to this "Hero" in hardpoints alone. I know PGI hates thinking things through and all, but even so, do they honestly expect to make any money from this mech? I was thinking of buying this and the Executioner Hero, but looking at them now after they both got nerfed just days after being announced, I am glad I did not (maybe we should start complaining about the new IS Heroes coming out that are going to be loaded with quirks and hardpoints). Furthermore, now I do not feel any urge to buy any of the new "Heroes" at all. Par for the course yet again PGI!

[Rusharn]

With the announcement of the Arctic wolf I think the issue of the removed of the 2 missile hard point is now settled. PGI's claim to balance is BS. The Arctic Wolf will be able to have a 5 missile + 2 energy + ECM. All that without the extra tonnage drain of the MASC. The SHC hero should have the option for the same load out. Whether they want to make sure those omni pods are on the H variant or not. At this point the omni pod combination that they said they wanted to avoid on the Shadow Cat they gave to a new clan medium mech. So PGI what is the deal? At this point if you want to sell the shadow cat hero it is going to have to measure up to the Arctic Wolf. At this point if every Hero Cat hasn't been refunded then people are not paying attention to the Arctic Wolf load out options.

[Andi Nagasia]

Wildstreak, on 18 April 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

MASC has never been a hindrance for me.
Being able to change from forward/reverse to the opposite when poking and quick turning increase maneuvering and lessen exposure time.
Speed boost is secondary.

the SHCs agility it already great, making it faster doesnt really help,
you could make a mech have 1000* Degrees/Sec Turning, but when all things are considered,
that would not make it much better than a 500* Degrees/Sec Mech, at that speed it doesnt really matter,
some people would like the 2Tons, thats taking more ammo or a Heavier Ballistic, both would help greatly,

Wildstreak, on 18 April 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

What you are missing out on those IS Heroes you mention.

LCT ECM is an edge but not so much that you see it in serious play in large numbers like when the Dragon Slayer was such a big deal.
JR7 same, is ammo limited and was nerfed making it less seen.
CDA different but not in a way that can be abused.
PHX same as CDA.
QKD same as CDA.
ARC same as CDA.

New IS Heroes are only speculated on like Wave 2 & 3 and I definitely do not expect the Crab Hero to make waves.
Wolfhound with ECM is good but without JJs still lower than the CB Cheetah. Only role this might have is a goto Light for CW and an alternate to the 2LL ECM Raven and that darn Spider, that is a good thing though maybe bad for a Hero.
Enforcer remains to be seen, the meta build is 3LL & 2ML, this does 1 ML less, cooler running and ECM.
Grasshopper is the 5H with lower hardpoints moved and loses the Head M for an Arm B. People prefer the higher torso mounts over anything in arms so you already have CB version of it in the 5H and 5P.
Knight is the Knight, lotta lower mounted weapons, at 75 tons I would expect serious players choosing the Marauder over the Knight on the IS side. Swapping Energy for a B + M arm does not make it better.

Of those Resistance Heroes, I only expect the Wolfhound in CW and the Enforcer to have a potential (not definite) impact.

some will be better, them being not much better is still better, game breaking no,
im just stating their have been Heros that have added something the others dont have,
in this case the SHC would gain 2Missile points, but would not be broken or game breaking,

Wildstreak, on 18 April 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

As for the Scat, given it seems the concern is using the Scat as a 10 ton lighter Griffin-2N, seems a viable complaint, Clan already have the SRMcrow that runs 5SRM with no ECM, they do not need this.

Quirks are practically going away with new Skill Tree next month.

the 10 Ton lighter GRF? i can guarantee the GRF is harder to destroy that the SHC by a good margin,
the SHC with these hard points would be more like a ECM BJ-2 than a GRF,

also the GRF competes with the 6ERSL + 4SRM6 SCR,
how would a SHC with 2ML + 4SRM6 SHC some how suddenly turn the tides?


what i have proposed here also sets a precident, that OmniPods can be Modified by PGI to Help OmniMechs,
this means when IS OmniMechs come to MWO, PGI will have more Wiggle room to help Hard Point starved IS Omins,

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Andi Nagasia, on 19 June 2017 - 07:32 AM, said:

also the GRF competes with the 6ERSL + 4SRM6 SCR,

Why are you comparing a GRF with a bad SCR build?

[Andi Nagasia]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 June 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

Why are you comparing a GRF with a bad SCR build?

just giving an example of volume of mass,
you have things like the HMN NVA & SCA that compete with the GRF,
the GRF isnt suddenly a viable Mech because its better than one Clan Mech,
not saying this change(+1HardPoint) would make the SHC better than the GRF,

their are other Mediums that can mount much more than 2E 4M,
so why take the SHC over a HMN or SCR, why take it over the ACW?

as the ACW will launch with these OmniMech Mixes,
4E 2M ECM 3JJ,
2E 4M ECM 3JJ,
4E 3M ECM,
2E 5M ECM,
2E 4M 6JJ,
4E 2M 6JJ,
4E 4M,
as well as these BattleMech Variants,
4E 2B 1M 4JJ,
2E 6M,
9M,
with a Max Engine(365(147.8kph)


and with a 250XL(101.3kph) +Endo,
would give you 17Tons Free(Max Armor) thats with no Ferro(more Crits)
as well as 5Tons lighter than the SHC, with +1Free Ton(SHC has 16Tons with Max Armor)

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Andi Nagasia, on 19 June 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

just giving an example of volume of mass,

That's fine, but at least give a better example. Until tomorrow, the meta SCrow brawler is 12 cSPLs. After the change the Stormcrow will either switch to cMPLs or fade into obscurity because it really can't do SRMs that well.

[Pariah Devalis]

Andi Nagasia, on 19 June 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

just giving an example of volume of mass,
you have things like the HMN NVA & SCA that compete with the GRF,
the GRF isnt suddenly a viable Mech because its better than one Clan Mech,
not saying this change(+1HardPoint) would make the SHC better than the GRF,

their are other Mediums that can mount much more than 2E 4M,
so why take the SHC over a HMN or SCR, why take it over the ACW?

as the ACW will launch with these OmniMech Mixes,
4E 2M ECM 3JJ,
2E 4M ECM 3JJ,
4E 3M ECM,
2E 5M ECM,
2E 4M 6JJ,
4E 2M 6JJ,
4E 4M,
as well as these BattleMech Variants,
4E 2B 1M 4JJ,
2E 6M,
9M,
with a Max Engine(365(147.8kph)


and with a 250XL(101.3kph) +Endo,
would give you 17Tons Free(Max Armor) thats with no Ferro(more Crits)
as well as 5Tons lighter than the SHC, with +1Free Ton(SHC has 16Tons with Max Armor)

While I've run groups of 4 Vipers and won successfully before in scouting, I learned first hand why the ACW won't replace the SHC. 40-ton mechs are just a little too fragile. I mean, 45 ton mechs are fragile, too, but just durable enough to take one bad hit. 40 ton mechs just start losing parts immediately.

As to why the SHC over the HMN or NVA, it's all about the handling. It is just a fun mech to pilot, and you stand a slightly better chance of catching a dropship dive group with a faster mech than the HMN, NVA, or HBK-IIC. Also, that MASC can be a real game changer in a knife fight. Really throw people's aim off, or reposition faster than they can realize. Even before the skill tree.

The SHC having an ECM option, as will the ACW, means you get a spectrum forming:
Fast, very hard hitting, with ECM option, but very fragile? ACW.
Fast, hard hitting, with ECM option, but moderately fragile? SHC.
Moderate speed, very hard hitting, *no ECM option, but fairly durable? HMN/NVA.

*Huntsman H, if ever released, however, would have ECM. In its foot no less. El oh el.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 19 June 2017 - 10:24 AM.