Tesunie, on 20 April 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:
If that was really the case, than in theory my LRM based mechs should have a lower W/L ratio than direct fire, correct?
I have Huntsmen of every flavor, and basically all of them have over 100 matches on them, which should give a reasonable about of data. (I am going to exclude my Prime because it has two different builds on it, and I'm going to exclude the C, which has under 100 matches recorded in it.) (Note: Armor is not exact. Just did the "Max armor" feature on it.)
Huntsman A: Besides maybe 20 matches at the start (and it's now at 121 matches total), it has carried the linked build. Has a W/L of 1.20, a K/D of 0.91 and an average damage per match of 317. This equates to a 6.35 damage per ton per match.
Huntsman B: This Huntsmen spent the first portion of it's life with an UAC10 instead of an LBx10, as the UAC10 was nerfs shortly after I got the Huntsment. But, overall it didn't really seem to change performance at all. This build also scored me on the Huntsmen Leaderboard challenge, though I wasn't exactly "high up" on that list. It's got a W/L of 0.84, a K/D of 0.70 and an average damage per match of 276. This resulted in a 5.51 damage per match per ton.
Huntsman Pakhet: 100% of all of it's matches have been in this build. Has a W/L of 1.37, a K/D of 0.88 and an average damage score of 315. This is a damage per match per ton of 6.30.
Huntsmen P: Don't have the build saved on Smurfy yet, but it's a simple dual ERPPC build. I've only got 68 matches on it so far, but I'll post it anyway. It has a W/L of 0.97, a K/D of 0.74 and an average damage per match of 292. This means it's damage per match per ton is 5.8
So far for the Huntsmen, the LRM version seems to have typically higher W/L compared to my non-LRM versions, with the exception of my SRM version. I wish I could include my upgraded LRM Huntsmen's stats, but as I created that recently on the Prime(S), and it's stats are mixed in with the second Prime I own... I could only tell you their combined stats. And seen as one is LRMs, the other is a laser brawler... it would be rather inconclusive...
So, as far as your statement goes... I do believe, if used effectively and with skill, LRMs can in fact be useful to the team as well as can have an impact on your W/L rates. (These stats are also mixed between solo and group play, but I shall also state that the group did not specifically spot for me, if that matters any.)
I'll also comment that I still do not profess to be anything more than a casual average player. I'm not an ace, and I'm not near the top of the game. Just run of the mill average in my opinion. So, of course your millage may vary with other builds and weapons.
I'll make note, I stopped with just the Huntsmen, as that chassis has a lot of variety from one build to the next. If you want more additional stats from more varied mechs, just ask. We can see how my averages and with what builds seem to work better for me.
For the record, I'm not trying to say that LRMs are better than anything else, just that they can be useful and can do well if used effectively.
Anecdotal examples are full of contradictions; I have a W/L of 11.0 in my Zeus 6T - and 17 matches. Figure that one out. My Zeus 6S has 75 matches and a W/L of 1.83. My HBK 4SP has a W/L of 22 with 24 matches played. Again, riddle me that one. I suspect I had several 'draw' matches in the HBK and the Zeus. It happens; rarely but it happens. The stats on my Scorch are flat out stupid; 51 matches, 4.67 W/L, 2.31 KDR and an average of 555 damage/match. With LBX and Clan SRMs without Artemis. None of which are 'meta' as weapons (2xLB20x, 4xSRM6) but it's still at 6.53 damage/match/ton (I like that metric btw. I like it a lot, it's a good idea). None of those mechs were played with 'good' builds or loadouts.
However you and I each have our own habits, playstyles and approaches to playing the game. Our stats, even our biggest, best mined stats, are still going to suffer from anecdotal viarance. Plus pug queue is a complete **** show for trying to identify actual weapon balance and relative weapon/build performance. The Scorch, which is like the raised middle finger of God for me in Pug queue wouldn't do nearly as well in a competitive environment played consistently against good players.
You can do damage with LRMs, kill mechs and make a real pest of yourself. IS Small Lasers can kill mechs; so can MGs. Any and every weapon in the game can be used to kill robbits and with enough effort you can get performance out of them.
There is no real good 'utility' to LRMs however. The same effort and skill put in with a direct fire weapon will get better results. If there was a viable utility application for LRMs other than being good against bad players you'd see that utility put to work in competitive play - again, not saying competitive play is 'superior' in any moral or ethical way but simply an environment that both A) reduces variance between player skills by the most possible and B ) strongly motivates the pursuit and application of any/all advantages in builds and mechs.
Kellaine, on 20 April 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:
I never claimed that LRM's are better than direct fire. I simply said they have their place. This was not a discussion of which is better. But that both have their place in the scheme of things.
I rarely post on the forums for this reason.....
IT is filled with haters that hate for hates sake.
Haters that hate for hates sake.
Really?
We're playing pretend with big stompy robbits. There's no hate here. There's nothing really worth that level of investment emotionally. It's a game, it's being played for fun.
There's no 'hate' for LRMs any more than I have a 'hate' for IS small lasers vs Clan ER small lasers or Clan Gauss vs IS Gauss. There's no 'hate' there. One is simply better, flat out, than the other.
The only 'place' LRMs have is entertainment. That's okay; it's not bad, it's not somehow morally inferior to IS LPLs (arguably one of the best overall weapons in the game). If someone wants to take LRMs, okay. Play, have fun. Big stompy shooty robbits. I have a 2 LPL, 2xSRM6A, 6xMG King Crab I play sometimes for giggles. A TBR with 3xLRM5As, a single UAC10 and 2 CERMLs in pug queue. I've got all manner of builds I run for fun. My FW dropdeck certainly isn't full of mechs you'd see in MRBC and of the 130+ mechs in my mech bay not a single one of them, not one, is set up with PPCs+Gauss.
However it's perpetrating incorrect and misleading information to say that LRMs are a good idea to bring or that they're in any real functional way on par or viable in comparison to direct fire. They also have, demonstratively, a strong tendency to motivate players to bad behavior - hiding in the back, relying on other people for locks, etc. etc. Mixed LRMs + other weapons are, in their way, even worse because it's just sapping tonnage from being focused in a single viable direction.
It's fine to play for fun. Play what's fun; it's a game. I've said that a million times and I'll say it a million more. However reality is reality. LRMs are not an effective thing to take to FW unless you're just playing for fun and don't mind losing, especially to good teams or teams bringing direct fire.
LRMs can be fun to play. They're different. That's fun and fine. However like all weapons that are 'not as good' they only 'place' they have is being fun. That's okay - there's no moral component here. No right/wrong answer from a 'having fun' perspective. People trying to say that they have a 'strategic place' as though they're comparatively viable isn't true or correct though. They have a 'strategic place' in the same way any sub-par build has a strategic place. My AC20 Urbie has a 'strategic place'. That place is 'play when drunk'. That's okay, it's not bad. Not trying to beat anyone up here either - however this topic is one that has been (erroneously) argued for a long time. That just creates more confusion and sets people up to make mistakes and operate under incorrect info.
Edited by MischiefSC, 20 April 2017 - 10:09 PM.