Jump to content

Is Pilots- Clan Op?


365 replies to this topic

#121 justcallme A S H

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Ogre
  • The Ogre
  • 6,557 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, AU

Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:56 PM

View PostThe Shortbus, on 26 April 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

And let all those fine energy quirks go to waste ?
But why, sairr ?
I like my 5ERLL Grasshopperer, and that with ppl knowing that I am a very vocal supporter of "ERPPC´s everywhere" :)
By the way ... y u no use ERPPC on IS side ?


IS ones suck.

Too hot for the dmg output. I've tried repeatedly to use them on quirked mechs, they are just not as good. AC2 or ERLL. Only viable options.

#122 BLOOD WOLF

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Jaws
  • The Jaws
  • 6,368 posts
  • LocationClan Wolf 1st Wolf Guardians

Posted 26 April 2017 - 04:03 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 26 April 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

Clans are not idealized. They're sociopathic fascist slavers. That they pretend slavery is a real boon and that their slaves are all better off as slaves isn't a new approach to justifying slavery. They're about as monstrous a society as anything in human history - pick an of the really horrible governments and cultures in history, they all talk about honor while murdering and enslaving people and answering any complaint with genocide.

IS ain't perfect but the Clans are the exact opposite of what Aleksander Kerensky wanted to create. They are exactly what the ideals of the Star League were created to fight and prevent. That's what makes them good villains. They want to pretend they're the good guys but in truth they are worse villains than anyone but Won turned out to be - and not by much.

they are communistic

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 26 April 2017 - 04:03 PM.


#123 Naglinator

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 975 posts
  • LocationStrana Mechty

Posted 26 April 2017 - 04:24 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 26 April 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

Clans are not idealized. They're sociopathic fascist slavers. That they pretend slavery is a real boon and that their slaves are all better off as slaves isn't a new approach to justifying slavery. They're about as monstrous a society as anything in human history - pick an of the really horrible governments and cultures in history, they all talk about honor while murdering and enslaving people and answering any complaint with genocide.

IS ain't perfect but the Clans are the exact opposite of what Aleksander Kerensky wanted to create. They are exactly what the ideals of the Star League were created to fight and prevent. That's what makes them good villains. They want to pretend they're the good guys but in truth they are worse villains than anyone but Won turned out to be - and not by much.



I guess if you are a child then that is ONE interpretation of the Clans.... I have my own that I posted earlier.

https://mwomercs.com...s-on-the-clans/

Also, please do not start a discussion on this. Just try to learn instead of just yapping.

Just remember that the inner sphere oligarchies started three centuries of war, billions of death, and almost destroyed mankinds ability to travel the stars. Clan warfare(between each other) has deaths in the dozens and never civilian(special cases do exist).

Edited by Naglinator, 26 April 2017 - 04:25 PM.


#124 MovinTarget

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,797 posts
  • LocationGreen Acres

Posted 26 April 2017 - 05:56 PM

Lol, yeah... bein clams is awesome! Just ask their scientists! They even started their own fan club... what was it called?

Oh yeah... the society...

Don't pick on Mischief too hard... last I checked, in Sociology, all you had to do was point out the faults in a society, not offer solutions... at least thats how my Soc. 101 class went...

Edited by MovinTarget, 26 April 2017 - 05:58 PM.


#125 Naglinator

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 975 posts
  • LocationStrana Mechty

Posted 26 April 2017 - 06:01 PM

Going to dark age is like going to the episodes 1 through 3 in Star wars. Just poor writing. No wonder FASA went outa business. Also, sociology 101? If you are a liberal arts major, get outa here.

#126 MovinTarget

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,797 posts
  • LocationGreen Acres

Posted 26 April 2017 - 08:20 PM

View PostNaglinator, on 26 April 2017 - 06:01 PM, said:

Going to dark age is like going to the episodes 1 through 3 in Star wars. Just poor writing. No wonder FASA went outa business. Also, sociology 101? If you are a liberal arts major, get outa here.


Nope, comp sci, but University of MD required some such electives... I shoulda gone with Anthro b/c Sociology was just a bunch of libetals pointing fingers without offering much in the way of alternatives...

#127 Commander A9

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,364 posts
  • LocationGDI East Coast Command, Fort Dix, NJ

Posted 26 April 2017 - 08:27 PM

Lore is dead.

Rely upon your own skill.

Make your own match.

Work together.

There are no alternatives.

#128 Naglinator

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 975 posts
  • LocationStrana Mechty

Posted 26 April 2017 - 08:28 PM

View PostMovinTarget, on 26 April 2017 - 08:20 PM, said:

Nope, comp sci, but University of MD required some such electives... I shoulda gone with Anthro b/c Sociology was just a bunch of libetals pointing fingers without offering much in the way of alternatives...

This is devolving into a BW type thing. I am bailing!

#129 MischiefSC

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Benefactor
  • The Benefactor
  • 16,398 posts

Posted 26 April 2017 - 10:05 PM

View PostBLOOD WOLF, on 26 April 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

they are communistic


Fascist. The state owns everything, it's not communist because there's no communal authority. It's ruled by a single authoritarian central military government. It's textbook fascism. There's certainly no proletariat; what workers have all the power in Clan society?

View PostNaglinator, on 26 April 2017 - 04:24 PM, said:



I guess if you are a child then that is ONE interpretation of the Clans.... I have my own that I posted earlier.

https://mwomercs.com...s-on-the-clans/

Also, please do not start a discussion on this. Just try to learn instead of just yapping.

Just remember that the inner sphere oligarchies started three centuries of war, billions of death, and almost destroyed mankinds ability to travel the stars. Clan warfare(between each other) has deaths in the dozens and never civilian(special cases do exist).


Your interpretation of Clans is irrelevant. Clans are a totalitarian one party state that views military service as the path to leadership and all other professions, industry and commerce exist to support a authoritarian, nationalistic martial state. That's literally the definition of fascism. That's how they were written. They ruled by absolute martial force and destroyed, often by genocide, any and all opposition to the authority of the warrior caste.

Castes are decided via eugenics. This wasn't some accident - the Clans were created originally to be fascist slavers. That's how they were written. I'm not saying the Inner Sphere was written as somehow better but largely that's because originally the IS was written to just involve the IS, so it made everyone goodguys and badguys to some greater or lesser degree. The Clans were created to be badguys. There was some whitewashing after their release to make them more relatable but, to clarify, they are textbook fascists. They practice slavery and eugenics.

Sorta why by Dark Ages most of that stuff got scrubbed from the Clans and they're just a bit more fascist than many of the most martial (and also largely fascist) IS factions.

Originally though? Fascists, slavers, genocide as an official state policy. That's how they were written.

#130 B0oN

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,672 posts

Posted 27 April 2017 - 12:08 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 26 April 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

IS ones suck.

Too hot for the dmg output. I've tried repeatedly to use them on quirked mechs, they are just not as good. AC2 or ERLL. Only viable options.


You just broke my heart, man, d´ya even know that .
Now I´ll just go into a dark corner in the mechbay and crywank myself to sleep while cradling some IS ERPPCs .
Buhuhuhuhuhu
:P

#131 justcallme A S H

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Ogre
  • The Ogre
  • 6,557 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, AU

Posted 27 April 2017 - 12:33 AM

View PostThe Shortbus, on 27 April 2017 - 12:08 AM, said:


You just broke my heart, man, d´ya even know that .
Now I´ll just go into a dark corner in the mechbay and crywank myself to sleep while cradling some IS ERPPCs .
Buhuhuhuhuhu
Posted Image


One game in FP I nailed most of my shots, didn't kill a lot of mechs of strip components (that splash makes quite a difference)... Even so I though FK YES, I've done easy 1.5k - 2k dmg in my first mech.

Result?

850dmg, in 15mins I nearly cried. I have not run a IS ERPPC since. Normal PPCs might be OK, but I can't see a situation where they are better than LL or LPL so I don't run them.

I pulled out my ERL GHP5P and did 800dmg in half the time over the next 7 or so mins until game end.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 27 April 2017 - 12:33 AM.


#132 Naglinator

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 975 posts
  • LocationStrana Mechty

Posted 27 April 2017 - 07:00 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 26 April 2017 - 10:05 PM, said:


Fascist. The state owns everything, it's not communist because there's no communal authority. It's ruled by a single authoritarian central military government. It's textbook fascism. There's certainly no proletariat; what workers have all the power in Clan society?



Your interpretation of Clans is irrelevant. Clans are a totalitarian one party state that views military service as the path to leadership and all other professions, industry and commerce exist to support a authoritarian, nationalistic martial state. That's literally the definition of fascism. That's how they were written. They ruled by absolute martial force and destroyed, often by genocide, any and all opposition to the authority of the warrior caste.

Castes are decided via eugenics. This wasn't some accident - the Clans were created originally to be fascist slavers. That's how they were written. I'm not saying the Inner Sphere was written as somehow better but largely that's because originally the IS was written to just involve the IS, so it made everyone goodguys and badguys to some greater or lesser degree. The Clans were created to be badguys. There was some whitewashing after their release to make them more relatable but, to clarify, they are textbook fascists. They practice slavery and eugenics.

Sorta why by Dark Ages most of that stuff got scrubbed from the Clans and they're just a bit more fascist than many of the most martial (and also largely fascist) IS factions.

Originally though? Fascists, slavers, genocide as an official state policy. That's how they were written.

Fascism

noun
1.
(sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.


Literally

1.
actually; without exaggeration or inaccuracy:

So no, they are not LITERALLY fascists. They are led by a khan who is not a dictator. His powers and authority differ.
They are not slavers though some of the clans would do something akin to indentured servitude. The castes are not necessarily based of eugenics. Usually castes marry within castes and those children take their families roles. Though smart children can move up and dumb ones down.

And their rule by martial force is the same YOUR government uses against you. Try breaking in to the white house... Also, if you think if a planet tried to break away for the Davions for isntance and that the federated suns WOULDNT send in a military force to "quell" the uprising, you are MASSIVELY mistaken. If you bothered to read my first post, which you didn't, the clans are a force driven meritocracy. That is there society. There economy is state driven. Neither communist(an economic system) nor fascists(a political). the great houses for the most part are force driven oligarchies. Though there ECONOMIC system is much more similar to ours(Modern Terra). Please try to distinguish political from economic next time....

#133 Rushin Roulette

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • WC 2018 Top 12 Qualifier
  • WC 2018 Top 12 Qualifier
  • 3,512 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 27 April 2017 - 07:36 AM

View PostRagnar Baron Leiningen, on 19 April 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

So I've been dropping IS for about two weeks now. I honestly do not know what is pilots are crying about clans so hard for. My mechs have zero modules on them. (Separate account, very little play time until recently) and I can at least do 1200 damage and 3-4 kills. I mean if you guys would just organize at least into 6-8 mans and learn how to torso twist you would be significantly better. Is mechs run cooler, they are more durable. I don't understand how IS pilots are not stomping the **** out off clans every night. Playing clan requires finess, heat management, managing your fall back points ahead of time. Playing IS should be a cakewalk by comparison.

Id say yes and no to this. Yes, IS mechs are on a relatively equal footing compared to clan mechs (with the lower CW drop deck tonnage) in Invasion/defence, Skirmish and to a certain extent in Domination as long as the map is one of the smaller ones. As soon as the game mode turns to Conquest or the map is bigger, the absolute speed advantage of the clanners gives them a MASSIVE advantage.
The speed advantage does not mean that the IS have faster lights giving them faster individual speed, but the average speed of the entire team can easily be held at a around 80 KPH (+/- 10 KPH) including Lights, Mediums, Heavies and Assaults. This means that the full team of 12 can arrive at the same point at the same time, leaving the team of 12 to face only IS Lights and Mediums (with a few Heavies, but no Assaults). On a small map such as Tourmaline or Frozen City, the IS Assaults can meet up within the rest of their team within 10-15 seconds after the center has been innitially reached. On large maps such as Polar Highlands or Alpine peaks, this point is moved back to about 60-80 seconds due to the long travel time from spawn to Center of engagement.

This of course carries over to the Conquest game mode, where overall team mobility is trump with not only, time to engagement from spawn, but also cap point accesibility for the main fighting group (They dont need to cap themselves, but they need to be close enough to the lights to cover them in emergencies).

#134 Eletael

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 577 posts

Posted 27 April 2017 - 07:41 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 19 April 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:

I'll take a Clan mech over an IS mech of equal tonnage in a duel 9 times in 10. Clan mechs are heavily represented in comp play for a reason as well; best in class almost across the board.


If that’s true please explain MRBC Drops like this to me

Posted Image

EON is the most successful European competitive Team and according to you they use the wrong mechs for their MRBC-League matches.

#135 justcallme A S H

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Ogre
  • The Ogre
  • 6,557 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, AU

Posted 27 April 2017 - 07:51 AM

1. That's the first drop. It is usually a mix of Clan and IS tech in most drops I've seen.

2. You cannot judge a MRBC drop from it's score screen other than the end result. Team 2 might have been out of position due to any number of reasons and been slaughtered - which is not in any way an indication of balance, that is all about teamwork and coordination, or being simply out classed by better pilots.

3. It's drops 2-5 where that is usually different and clan tech becomes way more prevalent.

#136 BLOOD WOLF

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Jaws
  • The Jaws
  • 6,368 posts
  • LocationClan Wolf 1st Wolf Guardians

Posted 27 April 2017 - 08:16 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 26 April 2017 - 10:05 PM, said:


Fascist. The state owns everything, it's not communist because there's no communal authority. It's ruled by a single authoritarian central military government. It's textbook fascism. There's certainly no proletariat; what workers have all the power in Clan society?


oh, your right

#137 Eletael

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 577 posts

Posted 27 April 2017 - 08:25 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 27 April 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

2. You cannot judge a MRBC drop from it's score screen other than the end result. Team 2 might have been out of position due to any number of reasons and been slaughtered - which is not in any way an indication of balance, that is all about teamwork and coordination, or being simply out classed by better pilots.


I don’t judge from the score screen. The score screen is just an easy way to see which Mechs where used.

I judge from “Current League Standing” and “Past Season Performance”.

https://mrbcleague.c....php?teamid=153

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 27 April 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

3. It's drops 2-5 where that is usually different and clan tech becomes way more prevalent.


You mean Drops like this
Posted Image

or this
Posted Image

#138 MischiefSC

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Benefactor
  • The Benefactor
  • 16,398 posts

Posted 27 April 2017 - 09:56 AM

View PostNaglinator, on 27 April 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

Fascism

noun
1.
(sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.


Literally

1.
actually; without exaggeration or inaccuracy:

So no, they are not LITERALLY fascists. They are led by a khan who is not a dictator. His powers and authority differ.
They are not slavers though some of the clans would do something akin to indentured servitude. The castes are not necessarily based of eugenics. Usually castes marry within castes and those children take their families roles. Though smart children can move up and dumb ones down.

And their rule by martial force is the same YOUR government uses against you. Try breaking in to the white house... Also, if you think if a planet tried to break away for the Davions for isntance and that the federated suns WOULDNT send in a military force to "quell" the uprising, you are MASSIVELY mistaken. If you bothered to read my first post, which you didn't, the clans are a force driven meritocracy. That is there society. There economy is state driven. Neither communist(an economic system) nor fascists(a political). the great houses for the most part are force driven oligarchies. Though there ECONOMIC system is much more similar to ours(Modern Terra). Please try to distinguish political from economic next time....


I have read your post. It's total BS. Clans are straight fascists. I think it's cute that you had to go through several sources to find one that used the specific word dictator, even though fascism doesn't require one. So the governments that exists in WWII Axis stopped being fascist when there wasn't a specific dictator in charge? Looks like you hunted one up from Dictionary.com, which was just a modified one from Merriam-Webster. Here's the actual copy-pasta:

Quote




Definition of fascism


  • 1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition


Or how about wikipidia?

Quote

Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism[1][2], characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce.

Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete, and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties.[8] Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[8] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.[9][10][11][12] Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.[13]


Fascism was created by Benito Mussolini. Here's exactly how he defined it. Worth a read, I'm sure you'll recognize it though.


Quote

Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace. It thus repudiates the doctrine of Pacifism -- born of a renunciation of the struggle and an act of cowardice in the face of sacrifice. War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the peoples who have courage to meet it. All other trials are substitutes, which never really put men into the position where they have to make the great decision -- the alternative of life or death....

...The Fascist accepts life and loves it, knowing nothing of and despising suicide: he rather conceives of life as duty and struggle and conquest, but above all for others -- those who are at hand and those who are far distant, contemporaries, and those who will come after...

...Fascism is the complete opposite of…Marxian Socialism, the materialist conception of history of human civilization can be explained simply through the conflict of interests among the various social groups and by the change and development in the means and instruments of production.... Fascism, now and always, believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say, in actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect. And if the economic conception of history be denied, according to which theory men are no more than puppets, carried to and fro by the waves of chance, while the real directing forces are quite out of their control, it follows that the existence of an unchangeable and unchanging class-war is also denied - the natural progeny of the economic conception of history. And above all Fascism denies that class-war can be the preponderant force in the transformation of society....

After Socialism, Fascism combats the whole complex system of democratic ideology, and repudiates it, whether in its theoretical premises or in its practical application. Fascism denies that the majority, by the simple fact that it is a majority, can direct human society; it denies that numbers alone can govern by means of a periodical consultation, and it affirms the immutable, beneficial, and fruitful inequality of mankind, which can never be permanently leveled through the mere operation of a mechanical process such as universal suffrage....

...Fascism denies, in democracy, the absurd conventional untruth of political equality dressed out in the garb of collective irresponsibility, and the myth of "happiness" and indefinite progress....

...iven that the nineteenth century was the century of Socialism, of Liberalism, and of Democracy, it does not necessarily follow that the twentieth century must also be a century of Socialism, Liberalism and Democracy: political doctrines pass, but humanity remains, and it may rather be expected that this will be a century of authority...a century of Fascism. For if the nineteenth century was a century of individualism it may be expected that this will be the century of collectivism and hence the century of the State....

The foundation of Fascism is the conception of the State, its character, its duty, and its aim. Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute, in comparison with which all individuals or groups are relative, only to be conceived of in their relation to the State. The conception of the Liberal State is not that of a directing force, guiding the play and development, both material and spiritual, of a collective body, but merely a force limited to the function of recording results: on the other hand, the Fascist State is itself conscious and has itself a will and a personality -- thus it may be called the "ethic" State....

...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....

...For Fascism, the growth of empire, that is to say the expansion of the nation, is an essential manifestation of vitality, and its opposite a sign of decadence. Peoples which are rising, or rising again after a period of decadence, are always imperialist; and renunciation is a sign of decay and of death. Fascism is the doctrine best adapted to represent the tendencies and the aspirations of a people, like the people of Italy, who are rising again after many centuries of abasement and foreign servitude. But empire demands discipline, the coordination of all forces and a deeply felt sense of duty and sacrifice: this fact explains many aspects of the practical working of the regime, the character of many forces in the State, and the necessarily severe measures which must be taken against those who would oppose this spontaneous and inevitable movement of Italy in the twentieth century, and would oppose it by recalling the outworn ideology of the nineteenth century - repudiated wheresoever there has been the courage to undertake great experiments of social and political transformation; for never before has the nation stood more in need of authority, of direction and order. If every age has its own characteristic doctrine, there are a thousand signs which point to Fascism as the characteristic doctrine of our time. For if a doctrine must be a living thing, this is proved by the fact that Fascism has created a living faith; and that this faith is very powerful in the minds of men is demonstrated by those who have suffered and died for it.


Here's a shorter, more succinct version.

Quote

1."Everything in the state". The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator.
2."Nothing outside the state". The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government.
3."Nothing against the state". Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens.


Bondsmen are slaves. Indentured servants have legal rights. A slave is property. Bondsmen are property. So of those people chosen for a caste assignment by the eugenics system (as in you're born into it) want to do something else, like say leave, what happens? What if they want something other than what the Warrior caste wants?

Suppose you're a bondsman and you don't actually want to join the fascist slaver state that's taken you, do you just get to leave? What if you don't want to serve them, what happens?

The idea that the people who enslaved you are willing to let you join them if you're willing doesn't make it not enslavement. Look, the Clans are compelling badguys. It's very convenient in the writing because it's just sorta implied that 99% of the time everyone who isn't a member of the Warrior caste is totally happy being chattel with no real rights and viewed as property. There's terrible people written into the IS side as well - Capellans and their Serviators, some of the more terrible local DCMS leaders would sterilize 'undesireables'. However when they did that stuff everyone recognized them as badguys doing bad things. The Clans obliterate with immediate military power any civilian uprising against their absolute autocratic authority, they enslave everyone who isn't part of them and kill them if they don't convert to the authority of the State. They're fascist slavers who practice eugenics. They're space {Godwin's Law} with animal totems. That's how they were written. I get people trying to pretend that it's not that so they can justify joining the badguys and say it's all perspective but it's pretty clear. There's no ambiguity. The fact that the writers always gloss over (but absolutely do mention) that everyone who isn't warrior class is functionally property and destroyed the moment they act out, have desires of their own or are just not convenient so that people can pretend that being Clan warrior caste isn't being part of the military autocracy that brutally abuses its own people or others as the first response to any defiance.

Sure, a planet in the IS that tried to separate from its House would likely get a lot of saber rattling and then a military response. However a demonstration of starving workers or even the assassination of a local political leader wouldn't get bombed from orbit, immediately. Social uprisings both peaceful and not 9 times in 10 in most IS houses gets a political response first and then a 'soft' riot control response if possible. The populous has rights and legal recourse. Clans get none. They're property, tools of the state.

Because that's how fascism works.

#139 Kubernetes

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blazing
  • The Blazing
  • 1,983 posts

Posted 27 April 2017 - 10:02 AM

I think people throw around the OP label too freely. OP suggests to me a terrible imbalance, a juggernaut facing a peanut. That's not the situation here, where Clans are stronger *overall* and *on average*. There are lots of roles and niches where IS chassis and tech compete just fine. The IS ERLL platforms (BLR-1G, GHP-5P) are better than anything on the Clan side. The IS LPL is probably the second best weapon in the game (after cERPPC, IMO). Most Clan advantages now come down to cXL and mobility, not weaponry (ERPPCs and Streaks being the exception).

#140 Naglinator

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 975 posts
  • LocationStrana Mechty

Posted 27 April 2017 - 10:41 AM

I copied and pasted Fascism and Literally so you wouldn't use the words incorrectly. Judging by the length of your post i should've posted succinct for you as well...

It's funny how your first link still has DICTATORIAL leader as needed for fascism. If anything, clans are a limited franchise democracy(by the way, as I know you don't know, almost all democracies are limited by franchise). Khans are elected(usually) by bloodnames warriors. They intern lead the military government. Depending on the clan, episicially Star Adder, Wolf to name a few, the civilians have their own internal governments. Every castes has 20 ranks which intern govern themselves. Adders have the adjunct, blah blah.  

Also, if you botherd to read your precious wikipedia, fascists states are a mix of PRIVATE and PUBLIC property and industries.  Thought they both try to meet the demand of the state the private industries are still quite private. The US total war in WW2 isn't very much different then how the Germans ran their economy. I'm not going to get into the Clan economics but they are VASTLY different the mussonli's Corporatism and the Third Way of {Godwin's Law}. For the first time in blood wolfs life, he was semi right. They are much more of a socialist/communist economy. Again, communism isn't a form of government so the military rule of the clans DOESNT take away from the communism.  

So the clans lasted 300 years prior to the IS introduction. Bondsmen were exclusively warrior caste member who essentially switched sides after a defeat. During the short time of clan history which we now call Revival(2 years) The clans kept this practice against captured freebirth scum soldiers of the IS. They did not REALIZE that this was seen as slavery. To clan warriors it is an honour not a mark of servitude. So some clans stopped this practice, some kept it. To say ALL clans are SLAVERS because of the actions of a few is to us the Kuritans as the only example of how an IS house is. So please don't use childish words like slavers or fascists without using them right. Almost EVERY great house is totalitarian when it comes to government if you want to be picky, and while ANYONE in clan wolf COULD become Khan... only a Davion will rule House Davion.  Mertiocracy vs. Aristocracy.   Or i can be a child and be like "Clans are {Godwin's Law}'s, IS is like Space America". **** facts right? Posted Image

Edited by Naglinator, 27 April 2017 - 10:44 AM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users