Naglinator, on 27 April 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:
Fascism
noun
1.
(sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
Literally
1.
actually; without exaggeration or inaccuracy:
So no, they are not LITERALLY fascists. They are led by a khan who is not a dictator. His powers and authority differ.
They are not slavers though some of the clans would do something akin to indentured servitude. The castes are not necessarily based of eugenics. Usually castes marry within castes and those children take their families roles. Though smart children can move up and dumb ones down.
And their rule by martial force is the same YOUR government uses against you. Try breaking in to the white house... Also, if you think if a planet tried to break away for the Davions for isntance and that the federated suns WOULDNT send in a military force to "quell" the uprising, you are MASSIVELY mistaken. If you bothered to read my first post, which you didn't, the clans are a force driven meritocracy. That is there society. There economy is state driven. Neither communist(an economic system) nor fascists(a political). the great houses for the most part are force driven oligarchies. Though there ECONOMIC system is much more similar to ours(Modern Terra). Please try to distinguish political from economic next time....
I have read your post. It's total BS. Clans are straight fascists. I think it's cute that you had to go through several sources to find one that used the specific word dictator, even though fascism doesn't require one. So the governments that exists in WWII Axis stopped being fascist when there wasn't a specific dictator in charge? Looks like you hunted one up from Dictionary.com, which was just a modified one from
Merriam-Webster. Here's the actual copy-pasta:
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Definition of fascism
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
Or how about wikipidia?
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Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical
authoritarian nationalism[1][2], characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce
.
Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete, and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties.[8] Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[8] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.[9][10][11][12] Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.[13]
Fascism was created by Benito Mussolini. Here's exactly how he defined it. Worth a read, I'm sure you'll recognize it though.
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Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace. It thus repudiates the doctrine of Pacifism -- born of a renunciation of the struggle and an act of cowardice in the face of sacrifice. War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the peoples who have courage to meet it. All other trials are substitutes, which never really put men into the position where they have to make the great decision -- the alternative of life or death....
...The Fascist accepts life and loves it, knowing nothing of and despising suicide: he rather conceives of life as duty and struggle and conquest, but above all for others -- those who are at hand and those who are far distant, contemporaries, and those who will come after...
...Fascism is the complete opposite of…Marxian Socialism, the materialist conception of history of human civilization can be explained simply through the conflict of interests among the various social groups and by the change and development in the means and instruments of production.... Fascism, now and always, believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say, in actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect. And if the economic conception of history be denied, according to which theory men are no more than puppets, carried to and fro by the waves of chance, while the real directing forces are quite out of their control, it follows that the existence of an unchangeable and unchanging class-war is also denied - the natural progeny of the economic conception of history. And above all Fascism denies that class-war can be the preponderant force in the transformation of society....
After Socialism, Fascism combats the whole complex system of democratic ideology, and repudiates it, whether in its theoretical premises or in its practical application. Fascism denies that the majority, by the simple fact that it is a majority, can direct human society; it denies that numbers alone can govern by means of a periodical consultation, and it affirms the immutable, beneficial, and fruitful inequality of mankind, which can never be permanently leveled through the mere operation of a mechanical process such as universal suffrage....
...Fascism denies, in democracy, the absurd conventional untruth of political equality dressed out in the garb of collective irresponsibility, and the myth of "happiness" and indefinite progress....
...iven that the nineteenth century was the century of Socialism, of Liberalism, and of Democracy, it does not necessarily follow that the twentieth century must also be a century of Socialism, Liberalism and Democracy: political doctrines pass, but humanity remains, and it may rather be expected that this will be a century of authority...a century of Fascism. For if the nineteenth century was a century of individualism it may be expected that this will be the century of collectivism and hence the century of the State....
The foundation of Fascism is the conception of the State, its character, its duty, and its aim. Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute, in comparison with which all individuals or groups are relative, only to be conceived of in their relation to the State. The conception of the Liberal State is not that of a directing force, guiding the play and development, both material and spiritual, of a collective body, but merely a force limited to the function of recording results: on the other hand, the Fascist State is itself conscious and has itself a will and a personality -- thus it may be called the "ethic" State....
...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....
...For Fascism, the growth of empire, that is to say the expansion of the nation, is an essential manifestation of vitality, and its opposite a sign of decadence. Peoples which are rising, or rising again after a period of decadence, are always imperialist; and renunciation is a sign of decay and of death. Fascism is the doctrine best adapted to represent the tendencies and the aspirations of a people, like the people of Italy, who are rising again after many centuries of abasement and foreign servitude. But empire demands discipline, the coordination of all forces and a deeply felt sense of duty and sacrifice: this fact explains many aspects of the practical working of the regime, the character of many forces in the State, and the necessarily severe measures which must be taken against those who would oppose this spontaneous and inevitable movement of Italy in the twentieth century, and would oppose it by recalling the outworn ideology of the nineteenth century - repudiated wheresoever there has been the courage to undertake great experiments of social and political transformation; for never before has the nation stood more in need of authority, of direction and order. If every age has its own characteristic doctrine, there are a thousand signs which point to Fascism as the characteristic doctrine of our time. For if a doctrine must be a living thing, this is proved by the fact that Fascism has created a living faith; and that this faith is very powerful in the minds of men is demonstrated by those who have suffered and died for it.
Here's a shorter, more succinct version.
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1."Everything in the state". The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator.
2."Nothing outside the state". The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government.
3."Nothing against the state". Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens.
Bondsmen are slaves. Indentured servants have legal rights. A slave is property. Bondsmen are property. So of those people chosen for a caste assignment by the eugenics system (as in you're born into it) want to do something else, like say leave, what happens? What if they want something other than what the Warrior caste wants?
Suppose you're a bondsman and you don't actually want to join the fascist slaver state that's taken you, do you just get to leave? What if you don't want to serve them, what happens?
The idea that the people who enslaved you are willing to let you join them if you're willing doesn't make it not enslavement. Look, the Clans are compelling badguys. It's very convenient in the writing because it's just sorta implied that 99% of the time everyone who isn't a member of the Warrior caste is totally happy being chattel with no real rights and viewed as property. There's terrible people written into the IS side as well - Capellans and their Serviators, some of the more terrible local DCMS leaders would sterilize 'undesireables'. However when they did that stuff everyone recognized them as badguys doing bad things. The Clans obliterate with immediate military power any civilian uprising against their absolute autocratic authority, they enslave everyone who isn't part of them and kill them if they don't convert to the authority of the State. They're fascist slavers who practice eugenics. They're space {Godwin's Law} with animal totems. That's how they were written. I get people trying to pretend that it's not that so they can justify joining the badguys and say it's all perspective but it's pretty clear. There's no ambiguity. The fact that the writers always gloss over (but absolutely do mention) that everyone who isn't warrior class is functionally property and destroyed the moment they act out, have desires of their own or are just not convenient so that people can pretend that being Clan warrior caste isn't being part of the military autocracy that brutally abuses its own people or others as the first response to any defiance.
Sure, a planet in the IS that tried to separate from its House would likely get a lot of saber rattling and then a military response. However a demonstration of starving workers or even the assassination of a local political leader wouldn't get bombed from orbit, immediately. Social uprisings both peaceful and not 9 times in 10 in most IS houses gets a political response first and then a 'soft' riot control response if possible. The populous has rights and legal recourse. Clans get none. They're property, tools of the state.
Because that's how fascism works.
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