365 replies to this topic

[LordLeto]

Not sure a 9 SPL hunchie is a good example when then CSPL boats can do that alpha from greater range and a third less weight and have space and weight for JJs and ECM and more heat sinks to compensate for higher heat.

If you want to argue parity SPLs and CSPLs probably isn't the best place to do it. One is obviously and intentionally better.

Edited by LordLeto, 24 May 2017 - 01:15 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Fair point, but I'm getting really tired of the back and forth of CLAMZ OP!!!! NOOOO IS OP!!!!

The people rage about this when its pointless, the pilot is what makes anything OP. Clans have a lower learning curve, but there are many IS mechs that are great and you'll see them in FP because they work vs the clans.

Grouping up is OP.

Coordinating is OP.

Prepping your mechs for niche scenarios is OP.

All these are tech-independent. If you want to win, regardless of the tech you run, do these things. Surround yourselves with people that want to win and will do these things as well. It makes a world of difference.

[LordLeto]

PGI has shown time and again it's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease here. It's not my style but I won't begrudge people for complaining about legitimate issues like the one I pointed out above. They're not asymmetrically balanced, one is just superior almost across the board.

Now they're taking a pass at energy weapons apparently next month so here's hoping.

I feel for people on the IS. I have to option to switch sides like IDI does with my one man merc unit, but I prefer people over in the FRR/DC hub over the minor benefits of clan mechs. Loyalists or people with limited time so they picked a side and stuck to it see these imbalances from one side and it happens a lot and it gets frustrating. The same happens on the clan side, they had their share of IS OP complaints during pug stomps when I was doing a mech bay tour at the end of CW Phase 3. But people Zero in on the things hurting them, not benefiting them.

Yeah maybe they're not huge imbalances, but they're repeatedly raised and repeatedly unaddressed for months at a time. It's not that clans are drastically OP, they're superior in certain ways certainly, but that can be over came. I think it's the consistently unaddressed nature of the imbalance.


Personally if I had to choose one thing to fix given PGIs obviously limited resources it'd be the XL disparity. They've tried doing it asymmetrical but it's hard to compensate or balance when one of the options is death. I'd simply up the rule from 3 crits=death to 4 crits= death. Then possibly restore the old side torso loss penalty to clans and give the IS the current rule as a nod to lore. Both sides are able to survive a torso loss but clans do it a little better in terms of penalty and crit slots.

[MovinTarget]

@ LordLeto,

Well put.

I am concerned that with the skill tree shaking things up, whatever small edge the Clans may have will be exacerbated... here's hoping PGI is on top of that.

The challenge for IS, I think at least on some level is, they feel pigeonholed into using certain mechs in order to compete with *any* clan deck and that is true for the most part. Simply put, if you were unwilling/unable to use the best-quirked IS mechs for a given map/mode, you are automatically at a bit of a disadvantage.

Those of us that have the resources and invested the time to prep for those scenarios don't think too much about it, I can see how it would be frustrating/daunting for the player that can't afford multiple copies of some battlemaster, or holds and affinity for Vindicators and Trebuchets (examples of pre-skill tree "lesser mechs", not trying to argue about their efficacy with anyone). Those that want to play lore too. Basically, I can see how from the IS side, in order to compete, you need to be (cbill) rich, well connected, prepared or some combination of the 3.

We'll see if the skill tree can do something to raise certain mechs up w/o causing others to become mind-numbingly OP (on either side).

Edited by MovinTarget, 25 May 2017 - 06:51 AM.

[Ajantise]

This problem with lore and imbalance in MWO...
It is like making Tiger and M4 Sherman tanks in the same World of tanks tier because they were in the battlefield in the same time.
MP games are not made this way. Only in MWO you have one faction much stronger than the other.

[Buster Machine 0]

The clan isn't op, it's only OP in certain things that Inner Sphere mechs simply cannot do like full streakboats and ER-PPC (15 points of damage including splash) pop-tarts.

[Vonbach]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 22 April 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

I mean, to be fair, the IS doesn't have a viable counter to the PPFLD poptart meta. IS has no Night Gyr equivalent that runs cool on the hottest maps, while being able to poptart PPFLD. Getting smoked by multiple Night Gyr pop-tarts while closing in an IS XL mech = teh suck

The night Gyr needs to be removed from the game. Every single time I drop I see these stupid things all running the exact same stupid build. I get really sick of the clans having the best mech in every single weight class.

[Vxheous]

Vonbach, on 12 June 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

The night Gyr needs to be removed from the game. Every single time I drop I see these stupid things all running the exact same stupid build. I get really sick of the clans having the best mech in every single weight class.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it needs to be removed from the game.

[MovinTarget]

This meta build works best from a distance because its either 2 ppc + 1 gauss or 2 gauss + 1 ppc...

Pushing either (as a group) is good beacause they only have this phenominal alpha when they've waited for the gauss to cd... which takes a while. Unless they are a good, disciplined player, pressing them will force them to either fire their weapons out of sync (more face time) or at the same lower dps as they wait for the gauss to cd. Even if it is only 1 gauss and 2 erppc, you can force them into heat management issue.

Finally, Night Gyr are pretty slow for a clan heavy, flush them from cover and they'll be hard pressed to stay alive.

If they are good pilots, you will still have your work cut out for you, but they are nothing a little situation awareness and controlled aggression can't solve...

Edited by MovinTarget, 13 June 2017 - 03:49 AM.

[Dead Tom Kerensky]

I am in a merc unit that goes primarily IS. Post skill tree we were IS for 2 weeks and clan for this last week. In either case when playing uncoordinated groups we won easily. Communication, good builds, and drop calling wins out over any tech advantage.

We also face full groups and have had several nights of going up against Kcom, Evil, Derp and others. Kcom in particular went IS the same time we swapped to clan. Fighting good groups got significantly easier in clan mechs. That's the long and the short of it. We are the same guys fighting the same other guys and we win much more when we are on the clan side. They won more when we were IS.

I strongly feel the primary reason is because of IS XL engines. It takes 40-50% less damage to kill an IS mech with an xl then it does a similar weight clan mech. This difference is meaningless vs uncoordinated groups who spread damage all over but against good pilots its night and day between the two. If IS goes standard which we did do as a full 12 man group we lost due to reduced heat efficiency and limited speed.

The difference is even worse when we come into a game mode that requires extensive movement primarily conquest and assault. The clan mechs as a whole are generally faster than IS and the fact that IS gets extra tonnage to compensate somewhat for the imbalance makes these situations even worse. The increased speed means clans can attack points much faster than IS can get to them to defend. In assault it means that if IS wins a mid engagement the clan mechs are respawned before the base can be gotten to. If Clan wins the mid engage they have 1/2 the timer down before IS respawns.

I fear the incursion mode will be even worse for IS requiring they camp their base extensively for fear of being run around and base rushed. I am hoping that the new tech fixes this imbalance and perhaps the laser rework may help as well.

Edited by Dead Tom Kerensky, 13 June 2017 - 09:51 PM.

[AnHell86]

Here are some facts:

1) In the last MWO world tournament, most of the mechs that top tier players used were clams.

2) Most of the time, pilot skill is much more important than the mech itself, no matter if it is clam or spheroid. Clams tend to have super high alphas but longer burn (lazor boats)- torso twist that sh*t. Against spheroids, XL check them all day.

3) Just have fun. I have recently have been buying underdogs to improve my skills; Dragons, Kintaros, etc. They are fun to play if you are a decent player but are difficult to pilot if one is a newbie.

All in all, exploit enemy weaknesses, lure the enemy in an unfair fight, use comms, choose between high alpha or high DPS, play your role (brawler, sniper, fire support), join a unit to improve teamwork.

o7 See you in the battlefield.

PS: Clam = Clan, Spheroid = Inner Sphere

[Grus]

My KDK-3 quad gauss is op... please nerf... IS letting me stand in the back and letting me do over 1k damage is OK please nerf... (sarcasm intensifies) headshots OP please nerf...

[KageRyuu]

Here's a question to the Clanners in the room. When was the last time you played IS in FW? Particularly Scouting?

Because let me tell you something, a 5-15 ton advantage for IS means absolutely nothing when Clan tech allows for them to boat missiles or lasers and still have about 80% heat efficiency, compared to a similar IS build which would be lucky to get around 30%.

So you can argue all you want about "skill" but when it comes down to it, a clan mech will beat an IS mech 9/10, due to tech alone as they can readily run all weight saving technologies without worrying about space, especially XLs without worrying about losing a single side torso, which in turn allows them to cram as many DHS in as possible giving them far better heat management which allows for more viable and powerful builds over all.

[MovinTarget]

KageRyuu, on 08 September 2017 - 02:39 PM, said:

Here's a question to the Clanners in the room. When was the last time you played IS in FW? Particularly Scouting?

Because let me tell you something, a 5-15 ton advantage for IS means absolutely nothing when Clan tech allows for them to boat missiles or lasers and still have about 80% heat efficiency, compared to a similar IS build which would be lucky to get around 30%.

So you can argue all you want about "skill" but when it comes down to it, a clan mech will beat an IS mech 9/10, due to tech alone as they can readily run all weight saving technologies without worrying about space, especially XLs without worrying about losing a single side torso, which in turn allows them to cram as many DHS in as possible giving them far better heat management which allows for more viable and powerful builds over all.

I play both sides and I can say that if 4 IS pilots go into scouting with the understanding that they need to play the best 4 mechs they can for the map/mode, having chosen them based on coordination so that they compliment one another. Then if they work together and focus fire/teamwork harder/communicate... They have every right to beleive they'll have a shot to win most of their drops.

If they drop solo and yolo, there is no guarantee they'll have decent results b/c the other side may be teamed up and doing all the things listed above.

The thing people don't seem to get is that in FP there is no assurance that the enemy will be as disorganized as your team. The only way to mitigate this is to GROUP THE F UP AND COORDINATE.

Edited by MovinTarget, 08 September 2017 - 04:10 PM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

KageRyuu, on 08 September 2017 - 02:39 PM, said:

Here's a question to the Clanners in the room. When was the last time you played IS in FW? Particularly Scouting?

Because let me tell you something, a 5-15 ton advantage for IS means absolutely nothing when Clan tech allows for them to boat missiles or lasers and still have about 80% heat efficiency, compared to a similar IS build which would be lucky to get around 30%.

So you can argue all you want about "skill" but when it comes down to it, a clan mech will beat an IS mech 9/10, due to tech alone as they can readily run all weight saving technologies without worrying about space, especially XLs without worrying about losing a single side torso, which in turn allows them to cram as many DHS in as possible giving them far better heat management which allows for more viable and powerful builds over all.

Clan for the last year....played IS the last 2 weeks...IS scouting a few matches last night (all wins).

So, yeah...it's mainly a skill issue...sorry. The better Clan (and IS) scouting teams just take your legs out anyway...so no need to worry about running that XL....that is probably not what is going to get you killed in Scouting....problem is IS pilots or their PUG teammates continually bring garbage builds to scouting....things that will most assuredly cause bad losses and get the 2 pilots on their team who brought decent mechs (most often) killed first....while they LRM safely from the back.

[Revener]

Meh! if clans are OP why don't I play any of my clan mechs then ? Have more fun in my IS mechs.

[Actarion]

bla bla bla, coordination, group, etc...

Just, look at the war map ...

You can't hide that fact... Clan are wreaking IS

[Black Ivan]

Clans still hold technological advantage. For example Clan XL, 2 slot double heatsinks etc.

[November Juliet]

Evil is moving back to IS side. Lets just see what happens.
-Ragnar

[MortallyTransparentCupcake]

Afraid of the challenge, eh?