69 replies to this topic

[Quisley]

One of the things I've noticed about the art released on the 'Mechs available so far is that the concept of "heads" as cockpits has been changed pretty significantly. The location of a "head" on a Catapult or JagerMech has always been pretty abstract, but designs like the Spider, Trebuchet, and even the venerable Atlas have had their cockpits sunk pretty far into the "shoulders" of the BattleMech body. How does this affect the styles people are planning to use as far as targetting? Is headshotting a less legitimate tactic, or just brought into balance with the rest of the hit locations? Discuss.

[cinco]

yes

/end thread

[grimzod]

Well if you don't know where to shoot on a particular mech its time to study.

[Slaughterama]

grimzod, on 21 July 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

Well if you don't know where to shoot on a particular mech its time to study.

this

[aresfiend]

The cockpit is ALWAYS the windows. With how tactically impossible headshotting was in MW4 (Along with the almost nonexistent head hitboxes) I think it'll be nice to be able to headshot like we could in Mechwarrior 3.

[Jake Stark]

Looking at some of the pictures of Mechs, I was wondering why would a mech designer design a mech with so many tons of armor only to have the most important part of the mech, its pilot, exposed with a cockpit?

I think headshotting should not be a part of the mwo universe because it is just plain silly.

[aresfiend]

Jake Stark, on 21 July 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

Looking at some of the pictures of Mechs, I was wondering why would a mech designer design a mech with so many tons of armor only to have the most important part of the mech, its pilot, exposed with a cockpit?

I think headshotting should not be a part of the mwo universe because it is just plain silly.

No. Just no. If they used cameras then they would have DRASTICALLY worse views with a LOT more weight to implement it. There's no other way around it other than cameras which just don't compare to a window and the human eye and if they can see through the glass then realistically you can kill them through it..

Edited by aresfiend, 21 July 2012 - 11:56 AM.

[Quisley]

Yeah, in-universe there's been attempts to have torso cockpits but it's always been victim not only to the vantage point issue but also proximity to the ammo, engine, etc. that means a lot more danger for the pilot. The head is as much about getting the pilot up and away from the explodey bits as it is about getting a good view of the battlefield.

[capt merkin]

MWO should have head shots, it's a tactic i used with lighter mech in the classic table top version. If you can hit the head hit the head.

[Toolan]

the Battletech Universe was foundet in the late 80s, so the expected tech in the 3049, after many many many knowledge destroying wars was very...simple. Theres no smartphone in Mechwarrior and no Megapixel camera, its a dystopic future with no reletion to today, so dont expect high definition targeting computers
(sry for the bad english)

[aresfiend]

Toolan, on 21 July 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

the Battletech Universe was foundet in the late 80s, so the expected tech in the 3049, after many many many knowledge destroying wars was very...simple. Theres no smartphone in Mechwarrior and no Megapixel camera, its a dystopic future with no reletion to today, so dont expect high definition targeting computers
(sry for the bad english)

There ARE high quality targeting computers.... I think you mean high quality cameras? Also, it's been explored but the other negatives still outweighed the positives.

[Volomon]

aresfiend, on 21 July 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

No. Just no. If they used cameras then they would have DRASTICALLY worse views with a LOT more weight to implement it. There's no other way around it other than cameras which just don't compare to a window and the human eye and if they can see through the glass then realistically you can kill them through it..

Doesn't seem to hinder tanks. Technically nothing actually compares to camera view. Do you have infrered eyes? No. Can you zoom in 1500x? No. Though to another point, does anyone know what this so called "glass" is? As far as I know it's as thick as any other part of the body, it just has less armor because it's a smaller area. For all I know that is transparent ferro armor.

aresfiend, on 21 July 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

There ARE high quality targeting computers.... I think you mean high quality cameras? Also, it's been explored but the other negatives still outweighed the positives.

Ya there are high quality targetting computers in fact during the star league most of the battles occured at what 10x the distance of what we're fighting at. No megapixel camera...come on now....your getting silly. I suppose they don't have spaceships, satilettes, or anything else. They have holographic battlefield displayes and Cyclops often relyed info like a cellphone to off field intelligence where they would up load it to holographics images. Just because everyones not walking about going can you hear me now doesn't mean the tech doesn't exist.

Edited by Volomon, 21 July 2012 - 12:12 PM.

[Wydell]

It's awkward to have a war machine have such an obvious weakness as an open cockpit design, but you have to figure a balance of battlefield awareness with safety. Cameras can be blinded.

[Remorce]

Please explain to me how they eject from the middle of their mech as it is going critical.

That is a huge factor as to why they have jet like cockpits.

Edited by Remorce, 21 July 2012 - 12:14 PM.

[grimzod]

Jake Stark, on 21 July 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

Looking at some of the pictures of Mechs, I was wondering why would a mech designer design a mech with so many tons of armor only to have the most important part of the mech, its pilot, exposed with a cockpit?

I think headshotting should not be a part of the mwo universe because it is just plain silly.

Yeah lets make our own jet pilots see through cameras...they'd love it. NOT.

Remorce, on 21 July 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Please explain to me how they eject from the middle of their mech as it is going critical.

That is a huge factor as to why they have jet like cockpits.

Not impossible but the ejection systems are drastically simpler if they don't have to tunnel out fo the mech to safety - exactly.

[Volomon]

Wydell, on 21 July 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

It's awkward to have a war machine have such an obvious weakness as an open cockpit design, but you have to figure a balance of battlefield awareness with safety. Cameras can be blinded.

Eyes can't? I would imagine the human eye would be far more suscepetible. Don't we today enter the battlefield with visors and googles in an array of assortments? Imagine landing on a 4 sun world, you probably couldn't function with just your eyes. Same reason fighter pilots don't go flying without a mask.

The only reason it's there is because it's iconic, and that's really it, but really whos to say that "glass" isn't as strong as the rest of the mech?

[aresfiend]

Volomon, on 21 July 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

Doesn't seem to hinder tanks. Technically nothing actually compares to camera view. Do you have infrered eyes? No. Can you zoom in 1500x? No. Though to another point, does anyone know what this so called "glass" is? As far as I know it's as thick as any other part of the body, it just has less armor because it's a smaller area. For all I know that is transparent ferro armor.

All of those features are built into the neurohelmet..... Why would you need to replace ferroglass (I forgot the name originally) with cameras to accomplish what the neurohelmet can do anyway?

[Adorian]

Volomon, on 21 July 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

Doesn't seem to hinder tanks. Technically nothing actually compares to camera view. Do you have infrered eyes? No. Can you zoom in 1500x? No. Though to another point, does anyone know what this so called "glass" is? As far as I know it's as thick as any other part of the body, it just has less armor because it's a smaller area. For all I know that is transparent ferro armor.

i was under the impression that it is pretty much diamond, as far as the camera argument goes that's what overlays are for, infrared and zoom. Putting the cockpit in the place it is also serves the purpose of giving the pilot the chance to eject as well, if the pilot was buried in the torso this would be worlds more difficult.

Edited by Adorian, 21 July 2012 - 12:19 PM.

[grimzod]

Wydell, on 21 July 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

It's awkward to have a war machine have such an obvious weakness as an open cockpit design, but you have to figure a balance of battlefield awareness with safety. Cameras can be blinded.

It was a tactic in ww2 to blind tank optics by igniting flames / jellied gasoline or using flame throwers on tanks to gunk up their optics, well said.

[Volomon]

grimzod, on 21 July 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Yeah lets make our own jet pilots see through cameras...they'd love it. NOT.

The only problem with this theory or remark is jets are not ment to take hits so seeing through glass is fine. There is no armor on a jet. If in the future there were armored jets, I doubt they would put some glass on it.

aresfiend, on 21 July 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

All of those features are built into the neurohelmet..... Why would you need to replace ferroglass (I forgot the name originally) with cameras to accomplish what the neurohelmet can do anyway?

Those are not features of a neurohelmet they read your mind or output they do not augment human beings.