86 replies to this topic

[Leggin Ho]

So if anyone from PGI would like to I'd love to see the tonnage be set back to even as it's at a stupid level when you have two teams that are equal it comes down to the extra tonnage for the IS and the ability of them to run assaults and heavies on 3 wave and still have a Med on the last wave. You can win the 1st two waves and still lose when you have to bring med or lights vs their heavies or even assaults at the end of the match.

[Wraith 1]

So if anyone from PGI would like to, I'd love to see the balance be set back to even. It's at a stupid level, as when you have two teams that are equal it comes down to the extra mobility for the clans and their ability to run large XL engines and still have a Mech after losing a side torso. You can win the 1st two trades and still lose, when you have to bring LPL boats vs their C-Gauss+C-ERPPC or even C-UAC/10 at the beginning of the match.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Leggin Ho]

Wraith 1, on 21 April 2017 - 08:49 PM, said:

So if anyone from PGI would like to, I'd love to see the balance be set back to even. It's at a stupid level, as when you have two teams that are equal it comes down to the extra mobility for the clans and their ability to run large XL engines and still have a Mech after losing a side torso. You can win the 1st two trades and still lose, when you have to bring LPL boats vs their C-Gauss+C-ERPPC or even C-UAC/10 at the beginning of the match.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Funny, of course I did not bother to mention the extra structure, ghost heat or small little things that have all been in place to buff the IS, so back on point, how about you reset the stupid tonnage instead of attempting to balance the game skill with it.

[Tarl Cabot]

Leggin Ho, on 21 April 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

Funny, of course I did not bother to mention the extra structure, ghost heat or small little things that have all been in place to buff the IS, so back on point, how about you reset the stupid tonnage instead of attempting to balance the game skill with it.

You dont really have to. But geez, look at the IS map, Clan are still heading south....You would have a point if IS was pushing Clans back to the Periphery but I am not seeing that happening, do you?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 21 April 2017 - 09:48 PM.

[BIoB]

Leggin Ho, on 21 April 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

Funny, of course I did not bother to mention the extra structure, ghost heat or small little things that have all been in place to buff the IS

And why did the I.S have to be buffed in the first place?....Exactly...

[Sjorpha]

They can setbthe tonnage even when/if they balance clan and is tech to be equally good.

[justcallme A S H]

B o B, on 22 April 2017 - 02:08 AM, said:

And why did the I.S have to be buffed in the first place?....Exactly...

Population, Clan was stacked heavy (and it was). Because IS XL sucks. Fix IS XL, take off the huge structure quirks. Game is basically done balance wise save for poptarting PPFLD.

So rather than fix the imbalance, PGI gives tonnage.

Logical solution, apparently.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 22 April 2017 - 03:48 AM.

[Terrastras Rex]

Or forget about balance parity altogether.

--> https://mwomercs.com...age-suggestion/ <--

edit: ^^ variable drop deck limits.. Depending on where you drop in the system.

Edited by Terrastras Rex, 22 April 2017 - 04:09 AM.

[Fake News]

no, clans op. is needs the tonnage advantage. until next week when we gi clan again

[Sjorpha]

Col Jaime Wolf, on 22 April 2017 - 04:57 AM, said:

If you compare the best IS mechs vs the best clan mechs on a 1/1 basis, its about a dead wash.

It really isn't.

There is no IS assault as good as either Kodiak or Mad iic, there is no IS heavy as good as Night gyr, there is no IS medium as good as Huncback iic, there is no IS light as good as Arctic Cheetah and Jenner iic.

Now the current IS tonnage advantage does help even that out. A battlemaster can match a Night gyr just about and so on, but as long as a Marauder can't match a Night Gyr, a thunderbolt can't match Ebon Jaguar and an Atlas can't match a Kodiak 3 and so on you can't remove the tonnage advantage.

Balanced tech would obviously be much better than the tonnage solution.

Edited by Sjorpha, 23 April 2017 - 07:46 AM.

[Leggin Ho]

Tarl Cabot, on 21 April 2017 - 09:46 PM, said:

You dont really have to. But geez, look at the IS map, Clan are still heading south....You would have a point if IS was pushing Clans back to the Periphery but I am not seeing that happening, do you?

Using the FW map to "Balance" the game with folks move weekly makes about as much sense as when PGI added the Long Tom to FW for flavor. You put two teams of even skill in a drop against each other and the tonnage advantage is what decides the match more often than actual team work and skill.

[Carl Vickers]

Sjorpha, on 23 April 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

It really isn't.

There is no IS assault as good as either Kodiak or Mad iic, there is no IS heavy as good as Night gyr, there is no IS medium as good as Huncback iic, there is no IS light as good as Arctic Cheetah and Jenner iic.

Now the current IS tonnage advantage does help even that out. A battlemaster can match a Night gyr just about and so on, but as long as a Marauder can't match a Night Gyr, a thunderbolt can't match Ebon Jaguar and an Atlas can't match a Kodiak 3 and so on you can't remove the tonnage advantage.

Balanced tech would obviously be much better than the tonnage solution.

I agree with a lot of what you say Sjorpha but what you are saying about the mechs is not quite right. Trying to compare mechs in weight classes with different roles is wrong. Id put a battlemaster up against a Mad IIc and have a good chance of winning, as long as the BM has good cover to duck in and out of. Night Gyr, great at poptarting, not so great at anything else since UAC nerfs, under 400 meters, id take a warhammer/hopper with laser vomit and more than likely win.

Different mechs with different roles generally shouldnt be compared. Clans have the top mechs in pretty much every tier atm but properly played IS mechs can still beat them.

[BIoB]

justcallme A S H, on 22 April 2017 - 03:47 AM, said:

Population, Clan was stacked heavy (and it was). Because IS XL sucks. Fix IS XL, take off the huge structure quirks. Game is basically done balance wise save for poptarting PPFLD.

So rather than fix the imbalance, PGI gives tonnage.

Logical solution, apparently.

Absolutely, it was a short term fix that shouldn't be permanent........but there is a reason that clan mechs are used on a 4:1 ratio at least in competitive play

[Lovas]

Leggin Ho, on 21 April 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

So if anyone from PGI would like to I'd love to see the tonnage be set back to even as it's at a stupid level when you have two teams that are equal it comes down to the extra tonnage for the IS and the ability of them to run assaults and heavies on 3 wave and still have a Med on the last wave. You can win the 1st two waves and still lose when you have to bring med or lights vs their heavies or even assaults at the end of the match.

This is a bad statement. Clan tech is superior...period. With two equal pilots, the clan one will win much more often than the IS one. Perhaps you should take more IS contracts and not be so clan centric, you might get a better feel for the balance.

Sure, the IS gets some offsets like structure/armor quirks. Lets take the Warhammer - that whole +7 side torso structure requires you to fire just one more ERmed laser into it to kill its xl engine...not game breaking. The Battlemaster-2C gets +18 side torso structure, but my Marauder IIC boats 30 DHS and much more firepower and range than the BLR does. In the open the BLR doesn't stand a chance, but with cover it does because it is more mobile than the MAD.

It is very hard to compare one mech to the other tech wise. You can't play them the same (clan/IS), those that do I feel are the ones who complain more often because they don't understand what they are piloting. In general sure IS is a bit more tanky, but clans have more speed and firepower. Play as a team and play to the strength of your current mech tech and you will win more often than not.

We've beaten KCom both in IS mechs and clan mechs. KCom in turn has beaten us in both IS mechs and clan mechs. I can say the exact same thing for 54MR, AWOL, IREX etc...Balance in this game is closer than most make it out to be, thanks to the tonnage difference.

Col Jaime Wolf, on 22 April 2017 - 04:57 AM, said:

If you compare the best IS mechs vs the best clan mechs on a 1/1 basis, its about a dead wash. clans are not OP, IS is not OP but the tonnage limits are bogus because it adds up to 3 atlas's of extra armor/weapons and quirks for the IS. also plx dont act like every serious IS team isnt bringing the best mechs the IS has to offer, its a never ending flood of battlemasters, warhammers, thundys, hoppers and cicadas.


i think its about right when the IS has 5-15 extra tons but 25 really pushes it over the edge where clams HAVE to win those first 2 waves in a steamroll (assuming an organized team (10+) on both sides). skittles will always get rolled regardless of allegiance because well... coord and TW are OP and you cant/shouldn't nerf TW in a game mode that exclusively favors TW and coord.

just my 2 cents.

edit, morning coffee

Sorry COL Wolf, I will also disagree with you, and agree with you (but just a little). Like what Sjorphia said you are dead wrong trying to say the best IS vs clan is a wash, and what Carl says is correct that you can't compare most mechs head to head.

With regards to the tonnage, I feel the IS can come down a little. You are silly to say 5-15. Right now I think a drop down to 20 would be good for the IS and lets see how that works out. Anything lower than 15 and we will be close to how FW was back in Dec.

That's my 2 c-bills

Edited by Lovas, 24 April 2017 - 09:55 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Lovas, on 24 April 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

This is a bad statement. Clan tech is superior...period. With two equal pilots, the clan one will win much more often than the IS one. Perhaps you should take more IS contracts and not be so clan centric, you might get a better feel for the balance.

Sure, the IS gets some offsets like structure/armor quirks. Lets take the Warhammer - that whole +7 side torso structure requires you to fire just one more ERmed laser into it to kill its xl engine...not game breaking. The Battlemaster-2C gets +18 side torso structure, but my Marauder IIC boats 30 DHS and much more firepower and range than the BLR does. In the open the BLR doesn't stand a chance, but with cover it does because it is more mobile than the MAD.

It is very hard to compare one mech to the other tech wise. You can't play them the same (clan/IS), those that do I feel are the ones who complain more often because they don't understand what they are piloting. In general sure IS is a bit more tanky, but clans have more speed and firepower. Play as a team and play to the strength of your current mech tech and you will win more often than not.

We've beaten KCom both in IS mechs and clan mechs. KCom in turn has beaten us in both IS mechs and clan mechs. I can say the exact same thing for 54MR, AWOL, IREX etc...Balance in this game is closer than most make it out to be, thanks to the tonnage difference.

Tonnage for IS mainly makes up for poor piloting really, not the weapon advantage.

Also don't forget, agility quirks. That is where the biggest difference is IMO. IS mechs are way move agile than a TBR/EBJ. You can spread damage way better. However IS is unforgiving, if you are not actively twisting/sharing armour where cXL is very forgiving as usually it is accompanied by a range advantage also.

Couple agility with laser duration quirks, IS mechs under 500M hold their own as long as the pilot is good at spreading damage, sadly, most are not and people complain from both sides about the other being "OP" when they just STARE down targets. Makes me laugh and sigh all at once.

PPFLD/Poptart of Clan is the strongest though at 700-950m (Gauss/Peep) or 1700m (cPeeps), but they are low DPS. So you gotta be careful and many teams have been caught out by thinking a wave of Gyrs in Siege will work, more often than it leaves you redfaced as not every team has the aim of EmP etc. QP it works better thanks to PGI making most newer maps favourable to longer range engagements. Imagine the old Frozen City in QP/Respawn mode? It'd be hectic as, and fun IMO.

The imbalance sits on IS XL, so yeah Clan is superior but only for that reason. Once you take that issue out the long range of Popping/PPFLD still exists but that is another discussion entirely I feel and it is somewhat mitigated by poor aim.

[Lovas]

No argument there ash, you are correct, IS mechs are much more agile. I'm at the airport tyiping this out on my crummy company phone and was getting tired working on that last post. It would be a long list if you wrote out the pros and cons of each tech. e.g. clan equipmen weighs a lot less and is less crit space...but the IS is cooler! Etc etc etc. etc.

I know for me at least, I have to be much more careful piloting clan mechs. Use the firepower and range, get back into cover, manage heat.

Edited by Lovas, 24 April 2017 - 10:42 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Oh for sure, it could go on forever.

As far as "balance" goes, right now in FP - It's pretty close, agree there for sure. Close as it's been since I started playing at least. IS XL / Poptarting PPFLD are the only two big ones really.

Yep, Clan is very much kite/trade play where IS is aggressive (most of the time).

Edited by justcallme A S H, 24 April 2017 - 11:03 AM.

[Sniper09121986]

Ah, the good old balance brawl again. Well, why not? (knuckle crack) First, I believe this discussion should be held no earlier than June, or July even since balance changes will be too big to throw even more variables into the pot. Second... seriously, people, why anybody still cares? Is this AssaultWarrior Online again, like it was before JJ nerfs in particular? With all these tonnage limits I cannot even remember when I used an assault in CW at all. The ugly fact is that every side has its go-to mechs that have been and will be there no matter what you do to them. IIRC the Scouting limit of 50 tons has been imposed specifically to prevent the Clans from running 5 Streak Stormcrows, only to be forced to deal with a Huntsman packing 8 Streaks... and jump jets. What should PGI do, nerf us some more so that it gets even more unbalanced in some other way? Personally I see the only way to balance the tech bases at this point - more tech. What they are releasing in June should have entered the game at the exact same time when Clan tech dropped originally so that we would compare apples to apples and not try to balance them against oranges by taste and colour.

[naterist]

didnt russ say in the roundtable he was open to a group drop system were you can lower your dropdeck tonnage for the group for cbill bonus's? give everyone that, and make default 265 for both.

coupled with the tech upgrade, it would settle the tech imbalance problem, and adress the real issue of unit v pug imbalances.

Edited by naterist, 24 April 2017 - 12:17 PM.

[Cer6erus]

I'm just confused as to why I.S. Mechs are quirked/balanced to be equivalent to clan counterparts for quick play, and yet they still get more tonnage in FW.

The way I see it is either clan mechs are superior, meaning the I.S. Drop deck tonnage increase is being used as a workaround for bad balancing. You could give I.S. mechs a little more love with quirks then implement equal drop deck tonnage to make things more fair on the surface.

OR

I.S. Vs Clan mechs are equally balanced via quirks, meaning that the tonnage increase is giving the I.S. an advantage with drop decks.

This isn't even thinking about how a 20 ton mech (locust) is quirked to be equal to a 30 ton ACH, meaning you can get a little more 'free tonnage' in a drop deck.

Just a few thoughts.