549 replies to this topic

[B0oN]

PTS is interesting .
One can do pretty brutal things with it .
Boating weapons works a touch better than live, even .

Go figure ^^
which means get on the PTS and try for yourselves finally instead of blahblahing .
Figure out the possibilities inherent in the skilltree system, BUT dont go in with the misconception that everything will be exactly the same as before, because on some points you lose a tiny bit performance but gain it on other points .

[50 50]

Ertur, on 27 April 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

So what you are saying is that variants that do not have all weapon type hardpoints are either nerfed with less range and/or cooldown for their weapons or nerfed with fewer effective skill points.

No.

From the looks of it, without picking up any weapon specific nodes, you can pick up 15 generic nodes that work for most weapons (Velocity is the odd one).
Strictly sticking to lasers there's 25 nodes.
Missiles is a big tree and you can get 33 nodes without crossing weapon types.
Ballistics offers the choices, 22 nodes including the increased magazine 1 and 2 before investing in a particular class of ballistic where there are and additional 5 nodes for each (Gauss, UAC, LBx)

In so far as matching these different weapon groups that's a pretty good allocation of points and give or take a few, 25 nodes is about the base line for a weapon type.
20 if you want to be a bit more frugal.

It seems that the separation of some of those nodes is done to give those weapons a bonus in those aspects while not restricting our selection.

For just the laser nodes only you get:
Laser Duration 10
Range 5
Heat 5
Cooldown 5

Missiles
Crit 5
Range 6
Velocity 5
Spread 5
Heat 5
Cooldown 5
plus 2 levels in the increased ammo

Ballistics:
Cooldown 5
Heat 3
Range 7
Velocity 5
plus 2 levels in the increased ammo
Then the specific nodes.

I can see why it was done this way and it does make the web layout a bit more interesting in my mind.
You can pick up a good set of bonuses for the type of weapon you might be boating, but can also get some good bonuses with a mixed loadout.
It's then down to personal preference and choice if we want to pick up more of those nodes to max a particular bonus, the system doesn't stop you, but point for point it may not be that worth while and that's the decision to make.

Mind you, not locked into it. Can check it out before committing and then respec if needed, but it's cool to see what the bonuses will be when you start planning them out.

Some of the other trees, yep, you can pick up a few additional enhancements along the way to get that level 5 radar deprivation or what not. It's interesting to go through the web layout and pick the nodes. Seeing the additional bonuses at the end seems like just that, a bonus. Perhaps not what you were strictly wanting to add to the mech, but they are not going to be detrimental to it and 91 points let's us pick everything anyway.

[BarmazelselRS]

The difference will only be in the sewn quirks ...
-------------------------------------------------- -----
Uniqueness, individuality, flexible and interesting pumping skills just zero with such a tree of skills.

-----------------------------------------------
Fashion casual style "ON". In all its glory

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

242 Nodes per mech but only 91 of them can be used. So PGI wants you to Skill the mechs out as their loadouts decree and keeping it that way. Which defeats the purpose of Omnipods. THE PILOT IS THE SKILLED ONE NOT THE MECH. This is utter crap and it shows that PGI want us to MetaMech. Wheres our End Game Content? Yeah you know the Planetary Warfare where each planets variables would effect the heat, movement etc etc? Everythings the same no matter if your on a planet thats a bare rock like our moon or if you were on Jupiter they both might have a bog or arctic plains, and the gravities the same because your jump jets effectiveness doesnt change. They havent even bothered to fill in the lil Lore Blurb for each planet, they could have had the Community submit and vote on that the info's all there on Sarna. And to top it off The Professional Teams (You know the guys who made it to MechCon) werent forced to use End Game Content (AKA those horrid Laned maps that used to be all there was for Community Warfare). But they wont see the unbalancing in that either. Personally I think the Unit that has the most planets with their Tags on it should be accoladed more that the World Champs,because the Gladiator is an arena fighter which doesnt equal what a Battlefield Veteran has had to deal with. One Day its Frozen Tundra the next its street to street and changing environment like buildings that collapse etc (which is why I say FW needs Huge maps that takes the fastest mech 45 minutes to cross from Top left or right Corner to opposite side bottom Corner, 3 possible DZ's for each side but only 1 is chosen and theres no drop deck you run what you want. Winners dont pay repair costs and get extra 25% cbills and xp losers lose 75% of cbills from field performance to repair mech and 25% of xp as well. AND NO TIME LIMIT. If 1 Mech can avoid another one and completes the Secondary and Tertiary Objectives [destroy/recover whatever] unless the Primary objective of Destroy all Hostiles is done that battles still in effect. Then its up to the top dog of each side to throw in the towel or call it a draw and both sides get 50% cbills and xp from performance and that battle doesnt count towards either sides percentage of planetary holdings. And that brings on the complications of who to exclude and yadda yadda that wont even be looked at so I'll stop here)
TL;DR No sir I dont like it but I also dont have alot invested in it so I play it till its no fun anymore or the servers are shut down.

[Cy3P0]

Please,

release it, hotfix later.

[Aramuside]

VoodooLou Kerensky, on 28 April 2017 - 01:56 AM, said:

FW needs Huge maps that takes the fastest mech 45 minutes to cross from Top left or right Corner to opposite side bottom Corner, 3 possible DZ's for each side but only 1 is chosen and theres no drop deck you run what you want. Winners dont pay repair costs and get extra 25% cbills and xp losers lose 75% of cbills from field performance to repair mech and 25% of xp as well. AND NO TIME LIMIT.

Paragraphs please as that was horrible to read.

I can't imagine anything more mind bogglingly boring than what you have described. Someone runs off in an ecm light ... and your assault takes 2 hrs+ to cross the map.....

[sub2000]

A number of played game last season is much more relevant weight factor than a number of posts. Most of the salty posts in this thread are written by people who prefer to write in the forum instead of playing.

[Aramuside]

sub2000, on 28 April 2017 - 03:43 AM, said:

A number of played game last season is much more relevant weight factor than a number of posts. Most of the salty posts in this thread are written by people who prefer to write in the forum instead of playing.

Nice presumption and very salty but..... where are your stats to prove that?

[anfadern]

Release the dann thing.
It is awful but I think it is better to fix the problems we find as we go along.
Just my humble opinion...

[sub2000]

Aramuside, on 28 April 2017 - 03:48 AM, said:

Nice presumption and very salty but..... where are your stats to prove that?

I see that you have played 74 quick games last season, the number is much less than mine, but I believe is quite sufficient to have opinion about current game status (there were quite a few changes since few months I play MWO). On the other hand there are members with 20 games in 10 season and more than a hundred posts in the same period. Go figure.
To see number of games go to your profile and choose leaderboards, in the bottom part of the screen you can make search by members name.

If to speak about current version of skill tree. I did very short look (the changes are huge) at it but could not miss that It is very friendly to PPCs and not so really to laser boats ( after all velocity is useless for lasers). Another note is quick access to the laser duration. This quirk is quite relevant for ER clan lasers, together with heat reduction (which is critical for ErPPcs as well) clan mechs get very easily nice boost unavailable in current skill tree.
Another note: radar derp is very very expensive, so I don't think many would bother with making 100%, on the other hand lrms get significant boosts. While I suppose asm will become much more common it is now (see payments for protecting friendlies with ACM) the coming games will see more of lrms.

[Apollo777]

I like this skill tree the only thing that concerns me is time that i need to set the skills for over 100 mechs!

[Peiper]

VoodooLou Kerensky, on 28 April 2017 - 01:56 AM, said:

242 Nodes per mech but only 91 of them can be used. So PGI wants you to Skill the mechs out as their loadouts decree and keeping it that way. Which defeats the purpose of Omnipods. THE PILOT IS THE SKILLED ONE NOT THE MECH. This is utter crap and it shows that PGI want us to MetaMech.

Well, let's see here: Yeah, only 91 can be used. We as players are not Kai Allard-Liao, okay? But we're pretty good pilots with specialties. Now, if your beef is that the skill tree is not pilot specific, but mech specific, I could see your problem, but I don't here. Chances are, you'll be able to kit out each of your mechs as if you (the pilot) just happens to be an expert in whatever each mech he pilots is designed (by you, via frankenmeching) to do. So, the mechs will play differently. So, each one of us won't get buffs in everything. So what? We're all going to be in the same boat, all of us will have a maximum of 91 points. Are you worried that you won't be able to do everything superduper with every mech you own? If so, play with efficiencies off in private lobbies, where no one has any 'pilot skill' other than their own God given skill with eyes, mouse, and keyboard.

Next point: Omnimechs. If I were a battlemech pilot in 'real life' and I were lucky enough to have an omnimech, there would probably be a configuration I prefer, that I feel I'm really good at. If the mission calls for me to switch out for another variant, I won't all of a sudden be just as good in that variant as the one I prefer/perform the best in, right? So, why would you?

But I digress. We are all richer than Blake. We all own Overlord dropships containing 100 mechs, but unfortunately we only have one pilot available. Like Jay Leno, we can only drive one of our many vehicles one at a time. How in the world are we supposed to be able, in one human lifetime, to specialize in so many mechs, and not only perform well but SURVIVE every single fight we're in? Oh, but wait, you're worried that you won't be an expert in every aspect of every mech. Well, here's the good news with your omnimechs. Each mech you own will have it's own skill tree. EACH. INDIVIDUAL. MECH. You can be an expert in a Timber Wolf missile boat AND laserboat AND streak boat. *okay, you have to own 3 timberwolves, but who doesn't already other than new guys? Cuz you had to level them up the old way and needed three to master them. My point being, you're freaking out about NOTHING.

The skill tree is designed to make meching more interesting. Allowing us to specialize our builds to our playstyle or to the role in which we use the ever-growing collection of toys we own. It's giving us options. It's giving us a bit of roles warfare (just a bit, don't get me started!). It's giving us a little more individuality. As far as PGI WANTING us to metamech, that's bullshizzle. Here's why:

1. We ALREADY metamech.
2. Metamechs HURT the game, and hurt variety. Why would PGI give us all these options if they all wanted us to play the same drop deck over and over? Granted, there may (will) be some adjustments as some builds prove themselves to be over or under powered, I reckon. Maybe quirks will still be used to even that out, probably. PGI wants us to spend time and money playing the game, trying out new mechs, buying new mechs, grinding away the hours.

I will agree with the rest of your statement somewhat. We do need more depth to the game, reasons to play, varieties of stuff to do, meanings to attack certain planets in CW, supply lines, asymetric maps and modes, etc... But I truly believe you, like many others, are worried about nothing at all. It's just a reshuffle of what we already have. It'll make us think and try to come up with the best combination for our playstyle. It's not a bad thing. It might even keep us distracted while they drag their heals on doing all the stuff they should be doing rather than repackaging what we already have.

My point is, let's stop poo-pooing PGI on the new skill tree. Let's celebrate it! It's one less thing they need to do before getting to work on the real stuff that all of us founders have been waiting for since we dropped our first dime and more than a little faith into our mutual (PGI's and our own) dream to make the best mechwarrior game ever. I can't wait to see the new maps, the black market, the supply line interdictions, the raid missions, combined arms like tanks, VTOL's, and infantry. I can't wait to see player created maps. Scenarios where we as a team are pitted against the AI for fun or challenging missions that somehow effect the CW maps. I can't wait until they give us reasons to attack planets (like helping get our faction access to mech factories, access to clan/IS tech, access to aerospace, satellite, and armor support, access to drydocks for jumpships increasing the efficiency of supplies to the front. And yes, BIG maps where we have to take time to really think about how we're going to approach our enemies rather than simply deathball toward the nearest floating red dorito upon dropping onto the map.

Have faith! After this skill tree and new weapons stuff is done, PGI is going to finally start thinking outside the box again and adding all kinds of interesting stuff to the game for us to DO with our new skill tree and weapons. You know how I know? Because if they don't, we all lose and we all love this game too much!

[Odanan]

Peiper, on 28 April 2017 - 04:41 AM, said:

Well, let's see here: Yeah, only 91 can be used. We as players are not Kai Allard-Liao, okay? But we're pretty good pilots with specialties. Now, if your beef is that the skill tree is not pilot specific, but mech specific, I could see your problem, but I don't here. Chances are, you'll be able to kit out each of your mechs as if you (the pilot) just happens to be an expert in whatever each mech he pilots is designed (by you, via frankenmeching) to do. So, the mechs will play differently. So, each one of us won't get buffs in everything. So what? We're all going to be in the same boat, all of us will have a maximum of 91 points. Are you worried that you won't be able to do everything superduper with every mech you own? If so, play with efficiencies off in private lobbies, where no one has any 'pilot skill' other than their own God given skill with eyes, mouse, and keyboard.

Next point: Omnimechs. If I were a battlemech pilot in 'real life' and I were lucky enough to have an omnimech, there would probably be a configuration I prefer, that I feel I'm really good at. If the mission calls for me to switch out for another variant, I won't all of a sudden be just as good in that variant as the one I prefer/perform the best in, right? So, why would you?

But I digress. We are all richer than Blake. We all own Overlord dropships containing 100 mechs, but unfortunately we only have one pilot available. Like Jay Leno, we can only drive one of our many vehicles one at a time. How in the world are we supposed to be able, in one human lifetime, to specialize in so many mechs, and not only perform well but SURVIVE every single fight we're in? Oh, but wait, you're worried that you won't be an expert in every aspect of every mech. Well, here's the good news with your omnimechs. Each mech you own will have it's own skill tree. EACH. INDIVIDUAL. MECH. You can be an expert in a Timber Wolf missile boat AND laserboat AND streak boat. *okay, you have to own 3 timberwolves, but who doesn't already other than new guys? Cuz you had to level them up the old way and needed three to master them. My point being, you're freaking out about NOTHING.

The skill tree is designed to make meching more interesting. Allowing us to specialize our builds to our playstyle or to the role in which we use the ever-growing collection of toys we own. It's giving us options. It's giving us a bit of roles warfare (just a bit, don't get me started!). It's giving us a little more individuality. As far as PGI WANTING us to metamech, that's bullshizzle. Here's why:

1. We ALREADY metamech.
2. Metamechs HURT the game, and hurt variety. Why would PGI give us all these options if they all wanted us to play the same drop deck over and over? Granted, there may (will) be some adjustments as some builds prove themselves to be over or under powered, I reckon. Maybe quirks will still be used to even that out, probably. PGI wants us to spend time and money playing the game, trying out new mechs, buying new mechs, grinding away the hours.

I will agree with the rest of your statement somewhat. We do need more depth to the game, reasons to play, varieties of stuff to do, meanings to attack certain planets in CW, supply lines, asymetric maps and modes, etc... But I truly believe you, like many others, are worried about nothing at all. It's just a reshuffle of what we already have. It'll make us think and try to come up with the best combination for our playstyle. It's not a bad thing. It might even keep us distracted while they drag their heals on doing all the stuff they should be doing rather than repackaging what we already have.

My point is, let's stop poo-pooing PGI on the new skill tree. Let's celebrate it! It's one less thing they need to do before getting to work on the real stuff that all of us founders have been waiting for since we dropped our first dime and more than a little faith into our mutual (PGI's and our own) dream to make the best mechwarrior game ever. I can't wait to see the new maps, the black market, the supply line interdictions, the raid missions, combined arms like tanks, VTOL's, and infantry. I can't wait to see player created maps. Scenarios where we as a team are pitted against the AI for fun or challenging missions that somehow effect the CW maps. I can't wait until they give us reasons to attack planets (like helping get our faction access to mech factories, access to clan/IS tech, access to aerospace, satellite, and armor support, access to drydocks for jumpships increasing the efficiency of supplies to the front. And yes, BIG maps where we have to take time to really think about how we're going to approach our enemies rather than simply deathball toward the nearest floating red dorito upon dropping onto the map.

Have faith! After this skill tree and new weapons stuff is done, PGI is going to finally start thinking outside the box again and adding all kinds of interesting stuff to the game for us to DO with our new skill tree and weapons. You know how I know? Because if they don't, we all lose and we all love this game too much!

This. ^
(1 like isn't enough)

[Wanderer of the Mists]

Odanan, on 28 April 2017 - 05:09 AM, said:

This. ^
(1 like isn't enough)

agreed

1 like x5000000000

[CptnHero]

From the first look, it´s not complicated enough. We need another 4 more xp-currencies in the game to confuse even the last mechwarrior.

We need:
ggxp, which can be bout with gxp an c-bills, but only between 6:21 am an 11:39 pm
xxp, which can be bought with xp and ggxp, but only at full moon
and with ggxp an xxp you can buy, at high tide,
ssp, with which you can buy, at uneven hours,
ffsxp, with which you can buy, only between your morning dump and breakfast,
sp which include, somehow, xp/gxp and c-bills.

Do we get xp and gxp in the future or will it be replaced by sp completely (couldnt find it in the description)? I just dont know why we need gxp though we have no weapon skills anymore. Even xp would be obsolete, if we could earn sp and then skill our mechs with it (no, not with additional c-bills. As it was like in the good old system, only xp, gxp, sp or whatever xp-currency we get in the future). Like one or three sp for every won match.

And if you just wonder why you dont get your xp for your mastered mechs back, its been converted into hsp, its not lost. I at least was wondering at first.

The rest still lacks from the same problems of the previous one. No skill tree, just an unlogical skill cluster, still too expensive (in c-bills), etc.

The weapons skill cluster is still useless to mee. I need my nodes in majority for cooling (most of my mechs), armor and structure, speed tweak and radar dep. At least without armor and structure skills, you will have a big disadvantage against those who have, and without radar dep., it will be a pain in the *** against missile boats.

I´m also missing one consumable slot. Where is it?

And btw, i paid c-bills for my modules, so it would be nice if i got c-bills, and not sp, back as refund. Maybe i want to buy something else than mastering a mech with my module refund (engines, mechs, weapons etc.).

[MrMagoo421]

But Peiper, that's being rational. People don't want rational here LOL.

[Steve Pryde]

The Shortbus, on 27 April 2017 - 11:12 PM, said:

Boating weapons works a touch better than live, even .

That's my biggest problem. If you have a mixed loadout with 2 or 3 weapon systems, why should I bother to put points into the weapon tree? The points are better invested in the other trees.

[B0oN]

Steve Pryde, on 28 April 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

That's my biggest problem. If you have a mixed loadout with 2 or 3 weapon systems, why should I bother to put points into the weapon tree? The points are better invested in the other trees.

Then try small investments in the weapons tree, but have substantial investments in mobility/sensors/survivability/auxiliary ?

Mixed loadouts work, but you need to make HARD decisions on which weapon system to boost specifically .
It´s more or less the same with the quirks right now : youve got mechs that have highly specific quirks, and some with more general quirks .

I´m still highly recommending testing out that PTS finally
Btw : Mauler 6 AC2 is a BEAST with nearly ERPPC reach

[RaptorRage]

Is there any info on how much the two missile rack nodes in the weapon tree increase ammo for each missile system and if there is any difference between Clan/IS? And for the unlisted Clan Ballistics how can you tell what the ammo increases are supposed to be using the Magazine Capacity nodes for the CUAC/2/10/20 and CLBX/2/5/20 when there is a difference in ammo added between the CLBX/10 and CAC/10? What ammo numbers are supposed to be extrapolated for the unlisted ballistics?

Edited by RaptorRage, 28 April 2017 - 09:04 AM.

[Kit Nagasawa]

Peiper, on 28 April 2017 - 04:41 AM, said:

Well, let's see here: Yeah, only 91 can be used. We as players are not Kai Allard-Liao, okay? But we're pretty good pilots with specialties. Now, if your beef is that the skill tree is not pilot specific, but mech specific, I could see your problem, but I don't here. Chances are, you'll be able to kit out each of your mechs as if you (the pilot) just happens to be an expert in whatever each mech he pilots is designed (by you, via frankenmeching) to do. So, the mechs will play differently. So, each one of us won't get buffs in everything. So what? We're all going to be in the same boat, all of us will have a maximum of 91 points. Are you worried that you won't be able to do everything superduper with every mech you own? If so, play with efficiencies off in private lobbies, where no one has any 'pilot skill' other than their own God given skill with eyes, mouse, and keyboard.

Next point: Omnimechs. If I were a battlemech pilot in 'real life' and I were lucky enough to have an omnimech, there would probably be a configuration I prefer, that I feel I'm really good at. If the mission calls for me to switch out for another variant, I won't all of a sudden be just as good in that variant as the one I prefer/perform the best in, right? So, why would you?

But I digress. We are all richer than Blake. We all own Overlord dropships containing 100 mechs, but unfortunately we only have one pilot available. Like Jay Leno, we can only drive one of our many vehicles one at a time. How in the world are we supposed to be able, in one human lifetime, to specialize in so many mechs, and not only perform well but SURVIVE every single fight we're in? Oh, but wait, you're worried that you won't be an expert in every aspect of every mech. Well, here's the good news with your omnimechs. Each mech you own will have it's own skill tree. EACH. INDIVIDUAL. MECH. You can be an expert in a Timber Wolf missile boat AND laserboat AND streak boat. *okay, you have to own 3 timberwolves, but who doesn't already other than new guys? Cuz you had to level them up the old way and needed three to master them. My point being, you're freaking out about NOTHING.

The skill tree is designed to make meching more interesting. Allowing us to specialize our builds to our playstyle or to the role in which we use the ever-growing collection of toys we own. It's giving us options. It's giving us a bit of roles warfare (just a bit, don't get me started!). It's giving us a little more individuality. As far as PGI WANTING us to metamech, that's bullshizzle. Here's why:

1. We ALREADY metamech.
2. Metamechs HURT the game, and hurt variety. Why would PGI give us all these options if they all wanted us to play the same drop deck over and over? Granted, there may (will) be some adjustments as some builds prove themselves to be over or under powered, I reckon. Maybe quirks will still be used to even that out, probably. PGI wants us to spend time and money playing the game, trying out new mechs, buying new mechs, grinding away the hours.

I will agree with the rest of your statement somewhat. We do need more depth to the game, reasons to play, varieties of stuff to do, meanings to attack certain planets in CW, supply lines, asymetric maps and modes, etc... But I truly believe you, like many others, are worried about nothing at all. It's just a reshuffle of what we already have. It'll make us think and try to come up with the best combination for our playstyle. It's not a bad thing. It might even keep us distracted while they drag their heals on doing all the stuff they should be doing rather than repackaging what we already have.

My point is, let's stop poo-pooing PGI on the new skill tree. Let's celebrate it! It's one less thing they need to do before getting to work on the real stuff that all of us founders have been waiting for since we dropped our first dime and more than a little faith into our mutual (PGI's and our own) dream to make the best mechwarrior game ever. I can't wait to see the new maps, the black market, the supply line interdictions, the raid missions, combined arms like tanks, VTOL's, and infantry. I can't wait to see player created maps. Scenarios where we as a team are pitted against the AI for fun or challenging missions that somehow effect the CW maps. I can't wait until they give us reasons to attack planets (like helping get our faction access to mech factories, access to clan/IS tech, access to aerospace, satellite, and armor support, access to drydocks for jumpships increasing the efficiency of supplies to the front. And yes, BIG maps where we have to take time to really think about how we're going to approach our enemies rather than simply deathball toward the nearest floating red dorito upon dropping onto the map.

Have faith! After this skill tree and new weapons stuff is done, PGI is going to finally start thinking outside the box again and adding all kinds of interesting stuff to the game for us to DO with our new skill tree and weapons. You know how I know? Because if they don't, we all lose and we all love this game too much!

This is in a friendly manner mind you, Personally that's what this game should rightfully be a massive battletech universe that doesn't have us pigeon hold to mechs, As a fan and a "will play through the pain" kinda guy it still can't denied there are a few big issues with this game from the ground up that marks its semi-failure (keeping myself on point so i wont put long winded info) peiper if you looking for that kinda mechwarrior just do what i do and play MW:LL its preeeeeeeetty much what a battletech game should be.

Given PGI's current heads of staff you and all the founders will probably not see a totally complete Online game because right now as it stands Russ and his band of Comstar goons are making a and fallow me here a first person to third person MOBA Which technically would have been GREAT! if they hadn't scammed money from founders with the list of "These could happen!" had this game started as a Mechwarrior based on solaris 7 and got to the point were at now that argument could hold up.

While many will quote this post after this bit i can assure you all that PGI is only working on at the current time 1. Mechs to sell not release 2. Systems to better theirMOBA players (the ones who bring in cash to PGI for mechs/vanity and sponsors at gaming events) 3. A skill system that seems counter productive to system in place now that could simply be upgraded.

Friends....family...enemies....PGI lack two things that make a good developer Hindsight & Foresight, Again i make this post as a supporter of PGI (Begrudgingly though it may be only because they have made a mechwarrior game)

The star league had hope and so do i even under the large amount of hellfire this is bringing down.