549 replies to this topic

[Peiper]

PGI, this post is spectacular in appearance and depth. I hope that it feels that way working with the skill tree in reality! I still would trade it for a bunch of new PGI made and PLAYER MADE MAPS, combined arms, an economy, black market, tactical and strategic stuff we can do in CW, 8 v 8 or 6 v 6 raids, maybe some team vs. AI challenges that would represent activities that would support mine, or subvert the enemy factions. But it looks very nice, and I hope that it keeps me interested in playing while you guys start adding more meat and depth to the game!

On another note: DO NOT CONVERT MY MODULES INTO XP. I paid for C-bills for them and I want C-Bills back. I don't mind grinding up xp and leveling my mechs, but I absolutely hate grinding for C-bills to buy new stuff ESPECIALLY as I already earned the C-Bills. I've been expecting a C-Bill refund for months. It made me happy. I was excited to see how much I got back for all my 50+ modules. I don't need GXP or whatever. I have tons of that. I don't need XP on mechs I already own and enjoy, I have tons of that. I want my money back, damnit!

[Arkhangel]

the rest would adapt. Forumwarriors make up less than 5% of the population of the game, and that's an OPTIMISTIC estimate.

fact is, as i've said repeatedly, if you can't adapt, don't play MMOs, because every MMO out there evolves over time, or it dies.

[I cant want to]

this feels a lot less like natural evolution and more like Fukishima radiation based cancerous mutation

[Hestan]

Liked it while I could play on the test server. Now having some kind of graphical issue that causes a crash when I try to launch into PTS.

Back to live to make sure every mech is mastered and save cbills for the new tech.

[Nightmare1]

Now this is the way to do refunds! Nicely done PGI!

[Harlock69]

I'm open to trying anything that might make my game playing experience more fun.

Being that I only play 5-6 hours a week for the past 3 years, my view may be too simplistic. None of us can pilot more than one mech at a time. Why be forced to purchase modules/nodes per mech, when they can already be swapped freely between any mech you own?

I've put an hour into the PTS so far, trying to make selections on two test mechs, that I HOPE will work for my play style. Still haven't actually fielded them in play. The hour was just picking nodes.

Again, maybe I'm just looking at it too simply, as I'm not a 'hardcore' pilot. Just my own experience.

Edited by Harlock69, 26 April 2017 - 05:30 PM.

[Rizzwind]

Does not matter what you do at this point. Half the player base will B***** about not having it their why.

[Desert Flea]

I go into public test server.
I look at the nothing I received in payment for what I've contributed to the game.
I go into a disaster of a skill tree which is unintuitive and clogged with menus and clicking and buttons and transfers and other detritus.
I find out that it costs millions of C-Bills and all my GXP to get ONE of my light mechs to where it was before this "improvement"
I find out I can only pick 91 of the tree things which means my mech will be garbage in at least one of the areas where it had no problems before.
I see quirks are taken out.
I realize that I'm starting to feel regret for the purchases I've made and am strongly considering never playing this game again if it goes live as it is.
t. tabletop and mw player since the 90's

Edited by Desert Flea, 26 April 2017 - 06:00 PM.

[Flak Kannon]

Bottom line is even there is no way any of my Inner Sphere mechs will be stronger Post Skill than Pre skill tree? Period. I'll explain 'stronger', a term that means different things to different people.

I have Every Module. ( I swtich them as I need to between mechs)

I have Every Weapon Module ( I use what I have equipped weapon wise.)

The 2 points above might seem as tho post skill I'll make out better post skill tree. Nope.....91 points only..


I have unlocked every weapon skill, range and cooldown. I can equip whatever I want for free anytime.

I have mastered 280+ mechs. I have all basics, double basics, and an extra module slot for these mechs. So I get 91 points.




It will feel like a massive nerf to half of my entire garage. No doubt about that. 91 points isnt going to allow me to do with my Com 3A what it did pre skill tree. Not enough points. Now... if I were starting the game the day AFTER the Skill tree went live, I'd not know nor realize, and I probably just follow the Meta, where ever it takes us. But that's not the case. Been here essentially since day one.

I am intimately attached to certain mechs that have certain abilities. 91 Skill points won't give me what it used to do....

SO I am a pretty disappointed in this rollout. Ill give it ( skill tree) an honest effort, but I think its gonna feel like WE ARE ALL playing a different 'physics' game for a while, ero, a new game. Mobility decoupled, agility, armor, speed, no modules, no Basics or Elites, and we choose only SOME of these, becaucse.. we only have 91 points... My 280 Mastered mechs now will never be the same. That a HUGE thing. My investment allows me to say something this big is not a good thing this late in the game. This should have been done Pre Beta... It's f'ing ridic to do it now...


This I WILL agree on. I can now specialize a mech for a thing, and I am not yet sure if I like that. But... my favorite rides from the Inner Sphere are 100% getting lessened in capability across the board.. tho they may have the ability to one thing a bit better. I keep going back to that.

Can my Com 3A do everything at the SAME level Post Skill Tree that it does today. 91 skill points and nerfs to its quirks say no. 91 points means maybe I dont have a laser Range boost because those nodes need to go to agility, or other things I already had. 91 points.

Enjoi .... I think not.

Edited by Flak Kannon, 26 April 2017 - 06:05 PM.

[ShooteyMcShooterson]

An easy improvement... When a player clicks on a skill down the tree, the game should automatically click the minimum number of other skills required to unlock that skill.

The game already does the reverse, where if you have selected a whole tree of skills, and you deselect one at the top, they are all deselected automatically.

Allowing the same during input would be a real time saver.

[Pr8Dator2]

Flak Kannon, on 26 April 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

Bottom line is even there is no way any of my Inner Sphere mechs will be stronger Post Skill than Pre skill tree? Period. I'll explain 'stronger', a term that means different things to different people.

I have Every Module. ( I swtich them as I need to between mechs)

I have Every Weapon Module ( I use what I have equipped weapon wise.)

The 2 points above might seem as tho post skill I'll make out better post skill tree. Nope.....91 points only..


I have unlocked every weapon skill, range and cooldown. I can equip whatever I want for free anytime.

I have mastered 280+ mechs. I have all basics, double basics, and an extra module slot for these mechs. So I get 91 points.




It will feel like a massive nerf to half of my entire garage. No doubt about that. 91 points isnt going to allow me to do with my Com 3A what it did pre skill tree. Not enough points. Now... if I were starting the game the day AFTER the Skill tree went live, I'd not know nor realize, and I probably just follow the Meta, where ever it takes us. But that's not the case. Been here essentially since day one.

I am intimately attached to certain mechs that have certain abilities. 91 Skill points won't give me what it used to do....

SO I am a pretty disappointed in this rollout. Ill give it ( skill tree) an honest effort, but I think its gonna feel like WE ARE ALL playing a different 'physics' game for a while, ero, a new game. Mobility decoupled, agility, armor, speed, no modules, no Basics or Elites, and we choose only SOME of these, becaucse.. we only have 91 points... My 280 Mastered mechs now will never be the same. That a HUGE thing. My investment allows me to say something this big is not a good thing this late in the game. This should have been done Pre Beta... It's f'ing ridic to do it now...


This I WILL agree on. I can now specialize a mech for a thing, and I am not yet sure if I like that. But... my favorite rides from the Inner Sphere are 100% getting lessened in capability across the board.. tho they may have the ability to one thing a bit better. I keep going back to that.

Can my Com 3A do everything at the SAME level Post Skill Tree that it does today. 91 skill points and nerfs to its quirks say no. 91 points means maybe I dont have a laser Range boost because those nodes need to go to agility, or other things I already had. 91 points.

Enjoi .... I think not.

All mechs are going to be weaker so what's the problem? Its still baseline fair. In fact its a good thing everyone's going to get weaker because the power creep in the game has reached an all time high. Everyone's full stable is goinng to be weaker so Just because you are not as tanky as before doesn't mean the overall balance of the system is broken.

Edited by Pr8Dator2, 26 April 2017 - 07:22 PM.

[SFC174]

Flak Kannon, on 26 April 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

SO I am a pretty disappointed in this rollout. Ill give it ( skill tree) an honest effort, but I think its gonna feel like WE ARE ALL playing a different 'physics' game for a while, ero, a new game. Mobility decoupled, agility, armor, speed, no modules, no Basics or Elites, and we choose only SOME of these, becaucse.. we only have 91 points... My 280 Mastered mechs now will never be the same. That a HUGE thing. My investment allows me to say something this big is not a good thing this late in the game. This should have been done Pre Beta... It's f'ing ridic to do it now...

Well said. I have played 4 mechs now in the PTS to evaluate the changes. Huntsman, Archer, Warhammer and Mad-IIC. To a mech, but in differing degrees, every one feels worse now than when it was fully mastered and equipped with modules in the live server. Even when I fully specialize in one area, I still feel like the mech is worse in that area than it is in the live server.

Certainly some mechs have become better or worse relative to others. My Huntsman feels like a wash compared to the competition. The IS mechs feel weaker. The MAD-IIC feels like it has gained strength vs. the competition (I was averaging 500-600 pts per match in the 4 on 4 test server games). But even though the MAD-IIC seems stronger vs. the competition, it still feels less enjoyable to pilot than on the live server.

I feel like maybe PGI is trying to ratchet back power creep with this new skill tree. They certainly aren't helping balance, playability is worse, diversity will be worse IMO, and I don't see how it will help their corporate revenue stream. If the specialization really allowed a mech to be substantially better in one area than it is in the live server, _maybe_ I could see some benefits to in game variety, but that isn't happening as it stands.

[Ace Selin]

GSP refunds im very much against. I spent cbills on modules as that was a requirement of the game at the time it was. I want my cbills back if PGI is changing how the game is played so i can again choose how best to use them once again.

Also the click fest of 91 nodes x hundreds of mechs, thats just something i dont want to bother with really.

Respec costs i do not like, will just make it so i try new variations on mechs for fun, much less often.

Tekamen, on 26 April 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

Gazes longingly at pile of modules purchased prior to December 3, 2016 in excess of 1.4 billion c-bills on live server. Looks at massive pool of 33,500 GSP on test server. Proceeds to unlock and master all mechs with HSP (historic skill points) on test server. Looks again at pile of 33,500 GSP and wonders how they could ever be used. Proceeds to remove every module purchased prior to December 3, 2016 in preparation to sell at 50% loss and recoup 700 million c-bills on live server, before test server goes live. Deeply saddened by loss of time in playing matches to acquire c-bills to purchase modules in game.

I want a straight 100% c-bill refund for all modules purchased in game regardless of what day they were purchased on. Modules purchased represent time played acquiring them. I see value in c-bills and being able to use them for new mechs, new XL engines, and to purchase nodes in the new skill tree system. I don't see value in GSP because it limits my options on how and when I choose to spend c-bills that I acquired through extensive playtime in MWO.

Yeah same, ill either sell all my 1.3 bill in modules now to get half price in cbills at least or ill simply not play the game at all.
The later is looking much more likely each passing day.

[Marius Romanis]

PGI:

To do list.

1. This is Skill Tree PTS version 3 not version 2
2. Need to be able to template copy skill tree sections for example. I set up my armor tree in my BLR-1G I decide I want to use the exact same armor nodes on 5 other assaults, rather than clicking every node again can you add a copy this tree build from my already saved BLR-1G armor tree set up.
3. Need to update/reload/redeply the Skill tree PTS version 3 with version 3.1 with the new modules cbills/gsp cut off / change date of Dec 3rd from Feb 8th date.
4. Need to either
A.) Make it easier for people to tell which modules were pre dec 3rd so they can sell them at 50% value and not accidentally sell their post dec 3rd modules that they would get full value for.
B.) Let people sell all modules for full value in game before patch (no obligation to do this as we bought those modules to use on our mechs knowing they were now only worth half origional value and now a skill/power boost that we've got to use.)(but if you dont you need to make it so people know which ones to sell back at half value if they dont want the generous free xp GSP)
5. Merge laser duration and velocity nodes to not encourage boating as much.
6. Reverse IS offensive quirk bonus reductions or explain to us why you need to do it. (none of those mechs will be playable if you compeltely remove their offensive quirks, I can understand they might need reducing a little so they cant get a current 30% laser cooldown quirk to 80% cooldown with the new skill tree (or something like that) because of stacking bonus's with the skills tree multiplying their existing quirks) So if your reason is "we dont have time to check that we wont be making another 1000% missile cooldown mistake so were just removing them all" thats bad, we have PTS to check that dont we?. If the reason is, "people are playing old mechs too much we want them to buy new mechs" that makes us mad. If your reason is new weapons your worried about the offensive quirks breaking them thats mad. If you intend to slowly return some of those offensive quirks after skill tree let us know. Thanks.

Those are the should be done already things in my humble opinion.

As for the details and size of the skill tree, its better than what we have, but could have been much better, but it will have to suffice I dont want to deal with rule of 3 any longer.

If you delay anymore I win a bet I made in December that Skill tree wouldn't be before June.

MechaBattler, on 26 April 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

Have we gotten any confirmation if selling our modules before the patch will still get us the GSP?

If you sell modules you wont get GSP for something you no longer have when the patch happens...............

Edited by CadoAzazel, 26 April 2017 - 07:54 PM.

[BVRCWolf]

Pr8Dator2, on 26 April 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

All mechs are going to be weaker so what's the problem? Its still baseline fair. In fact its a good thing everyone's going to get weaker because the power creep in the game has reached an all time high. Everyone's full stable is goinng to be weaker so Just because you are not as tanky as before doesn't mean the overall balance of the system is broken.

So all the time and effort to get a mech the way you like it is thrown out the window and your answer is they are all going to be weaker... wow. I also have a few mechs that I have spent time on building up the way they are and with the new system, they are now broken. The worst thing is PGI will not take notice of what is said and they will go forward with their plan to remodel the Skill Tree.

Looking forward to Battletech now more than ever

[Xaat Xuun]

don't care for it.

same issue I had before, nodes I would purchase first are more costly, meaning they are the last available to get, still have to accept nodes I do not want or use. Still have to purchase 2 unwanted nodes to get one.
where's the trade off, if I have to trade 2 for 1

yeah upset, and crossed eye over the way one has to select nodes.

just need some time to adjust and adapt to a bad planning, to turn it into something decent. probably wont be so bad, since everyone is getting same.

All I see is builds for quick play style in mind, with the way the skill tree node selections are laid out

[Dee Eight]

DrVoodooAUS, on 26 April 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

if 5 % of the population try the test system and we are seeing this much complaining in the forums just wait and see what happens when it smacks 100% of the population.

5% ? Boy you're optimistic... at best its going to be 2%. And the other 98% won't care because they don't even bother to use the forums.

Edited by Dee Eight, 26 April 2017 - 07:58 PM.

[Helene de Montfort]

It has been said already, but i have to agree...

If all mechs have access to similar skills, then OP mechs will stay OP no matter what, that's why you introduced quirks, and nothing else has changed. Either keep the quirks, or make it so mechs that used to have better quirks can end up with better skills.

Anything that costed us xp should be refunded with xp, this include all unlocked pilot skills, not only mech skills. Everything that costed us cbills should be refunded with cbills, and everything that costed us MC should be refunded with MC...

Anything else is unacceptable.

BTW, i presume we aren't going to have any refund of MC spent to transfer xp?

[Weirdjedi]

I have a better understanding why people are concerned about the skill trees now that I had a chance to play around with them. I'm going to list my results:

1. Currency
Positives: Certain upgraded consumables obtained from events actually convert into MC. There is plenty of wiggle room in converting your overlapping HXP (whether you currently own the mech or not) and GSP (from old modules). Although there could be improvements, the ledger does help give a detailed history to where the additional funds came from. Although the number of different currencies can be confusing, each one provides flexibility to the upcoming changes.

Negatives: The amount of SP given in exchange for the modules goes extremely beyond the basic needs of your typical player. Most players will probably only need the maximum 91 SP points per mech to be satisfied (valued at about $4 million cbills). This means that a single module could be enough to reach that cap. Because of this, I personally will receive enough to master double the amount I own with only ever obtaining 1 module per mech. The high overflow makes players feel cheated when they could potentially gain more value by selling the modules now even at a discount. All XP/SP gained on a single mech is attached only to that mech and is lost when sold (I currently do not know how XP on trial mechs are calculated).

2. User Interface
Positives: You do not have to click through a separate list to see your pilot skills and mech skills. Instead, you can simply click on the skills menu while you have the mech you want to check out currently selected. The list of possible ways to buy SP is nicely displayed with appropriate sliding bars to adjust their value.

Negatives: I understand your intention on making it easy to use MC to buy GXP with the popup submenu below the mech but wouldn't it also be intuitive to be able to convert your other currencies there as well without going into the skills submenu? What is the point of permanently attaching HXP to a specific mech (as Mech XP) if you are just going to turn around and convert that into SP; the SP conversion menu allows you to skip that whole step and convert HXP to SP. [I understand now re-slotting requires 400 XP. A suggestion is to allow any number typed in the text field that is over the maximum amount to be automatically rounded to that amount.] The conversion method selection menu is unnecessary; all possible currencies should be listed and the corresponding cbills cost adjusted accordingly. Because there is no longer a global list of mechs with experience, there is no way to tell whether a mech or variant has been tried before.

3. Customization
Positives: Anything you desire to be upgraded can be. If you want to extend the range on missiles, tack on additional armor, reduce the heat of your lasers, make your jump jets last longer, or even load up on consumables - it can be done. Now you can "equip" every available module where before only a few was possible (and you don't have to pay the exorbitant price for each one). You don't have to wait to buy three variants to fully "master" a mech.

Negatives: Upgrading a mech comes at a cost that may very well make it end up worse than the current system (Just because you can spend 26 of your 91 slots making your narc go from 600 meters to 690 meters doesn't mean you should). The number of slots are limited and may require you to expend your resources into upgrades you don't necessarily need. The system is global and does not take into consideration certain mechs or playstyles such as Enhanced Narc requiring you to buy a consumable slot and Arm Pitch still a requirement for mechs without arms (Also Bug: Arm Pitch 5 says Torso Pitch in the description). I feel the reason why I can't seem to make my mech the way I'm used to is because every mech is essentially being degraded in preparation of the new Civil War tech release. Also because the quirks are being integrated into the skill tree, playing with a fresh mech has become that much difficult.

There are a bunch of other issues people have brought up like the length of time it takes looking at each individual skill tree and removing certain quirks are belittling already underrated mechs, but I feel like the ones above are my biggest concerns.

Edited by Weirdjedi, 26 April 2017 - 09:16 PM.

[Hopeasusi]

Helene de Montfort, on 26 April 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:

It has been said already, but i have to agree...

If all mechs have access to similar skills, then OP mechs will stay OP no matter what, that's why you introduced quirks, and nothing else has changed. Either keep the quirks, or make it so mechs that used to have better quirks can end up with better skills.

Anything that costed us xp should be refunded with xp, this include all unlocked pilot skills, not only mech skills. Everything that costed us cbills should be refunded with cbills, and everything that costed us MC should be refunded with MC...

Anything else is unacceptable.

BTW, i presume we aren't going to have any refund of MC spent to transfer xp?

OP will be even more op, yes this is sad.

Does IS get anything else than 2,2% cooldown and 5% laser duration extra compared to Clans? Cause this ain't gonna cut it for balance. The new tech is gonna help, but that's not here yet. So we can't tell will it balance IS vs Clan or not.

The blanket nerfs to all bad/ok mech is just weird. Making them have less extra is not gonna help, but hinder them even more. I hurts my eyes to see all these nerf still coming for mechs like the vindicator. Just no for that aspect.

At least the tree looks much more interesting than what we have now, so I want it to come in to the game. Still it could be a lot better with only small modifications. Best chance would be to put all levels of a skill on one node as levels of that node, not to spread them all around the tree.