549 replies to this topic

[Peiper]

Arkaiko, on 28 April 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

i liked the new patch and the new skill tree, but, what happens with the mechs with low weapons loads?, those mechs who realy need ofensive quirks?, what happens with LTC-1V, LCT-3V, SDR,5V? (among many)
if the "best build" of those mechs is 1LL or 2ML they need better quirks than "+10% range" or "-10% heat generation"
except that the patch looks great, i try my mechs on testing grounds and they got overall good changes (exept for the crippled build ones)

the skill window could be confusing for some players, but i think it will be the same "save changes" issue in earlyer patches, is just getting used to it.


sry my bad english

Answer: light machine/heavy machine guns, micro lasers, light PPC's, stealth armor, laser AMS (no ammo).

I also think that things are going to have to shake out a bit to figure out whether some mechs are viable or not. If there is absolutely no way a mech can compete, I foresee PGI rolling out some quirks again. When making sweeping changes, even if they are shuffles rather that big buffs or nerfs as with the new skill tree, there's going to be some casualties. Speculating is difficult. Those of my friends who've downloaded the test client can't even find matches when they're playing. Like Michaelson Snow said in a previous post: just give us the damned skill tree already! (I'm neutral about that, but it would end the speculation right quick!)

[jjm1]

My two cents for additional changes:

The Skill list (the old quirk list) is a huge blob of entries. It now needs be categorised. ie: offensive, defensive, misc. And inherent chassis quirks should have some sort of highlight.

MG ROF quirk didn't appear on the MG floating window (tested on pirates bane). I think it should.

[BarmazelselRS]

New tree of skills full "level"
All the bellows will be as one. No variety and individuality.
After such a tree, the game will become less interesting and more boring.
And add to this the quirks that you cut out from many "machines" ...

What you are trying to do about this tree: https://ru.pathofexi...e-skill-tree/AA

[Bluttrunken]

Well, you can't make everyone happy. I love the new skill tree and like how they handle refunds as well. Can't wait for the implementation. Between the skill tree and the Civil War update we have exciting months in MWO in front of us.

[C E Dwyer]

I'm curious, why P.G.I did you use the mech that desync is going to have the least effect on as your example ?

I'm cautiously in favour of desync, but I still want to know why you didn't use a fast assault mech in the example. The type that are going to be most effected by the latency in the new mechanic.

[Sardauker Legion]

https://mwomercs.com...s-2-now-offline

"• Refund Process: The starting point for receiving C-Bill refunds from Owned Modules is now December 3rd 2016, rather than February 8th 2017. This new date coincides with the first announcement of the new Skill Tree."

So if i get it right, only the modules taken in the last months will be refunded, not all those taken since release?
To reskill over 150 mechs - half of them having 2 mech 2 weapon modules - , i have to earn that CBills again?
Maybe i have to spend my time on Heavy Gear Assault....

[Jay Leon Hart]

Anavel Gato2, on 29 April 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

https://mwomercs.com...s-2-now-offline

"• Refund Process: The starting point for receiving C-Bill refunds from Owned Modules is now December 3rd 2016, rather than February 8th 2017. This new date coincides with the first announcement of the new Skill Tree."

So if i get it right, only the modules taken in the last months will be refunded, not all those taken since release?
To reskill over 150 mechs - half of them having 2 mech 2 weapon modules - , i have to earn that CBills again?
Maybe i have to spend my time on Heavy Gear Assault....

Yes, only "new" modules get a C-Bill refund.
However, "old" modules get a GSP refund - not GXP, GSP.
You get a number of HSP for each 'mech, dependent on how many skills you have unlocked in the current system. A mastered 'mech in the current system gets 91 HSP, so you can master it with no further cost in the new system. A huge benefit compared to the massive C-Bill costs from the previous iteration.

[MovinTarget]

Jay Leon Hart, on 29 April 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

Yes, only "new" modules get a C-Bill refund.
However, "old" modules get a GSP refund - not GXP, GSP.
You get a number of HSP for each 'mech, dependent on how many skills you have unlocked in the current system. A mastered 'mech in the current system gets 91 HSP, so you can master it with no further cost in the new system. A huge benefit compared to the massive C-Bill costs from the previous iteration.

Yup basically, they are adding 2 more months to the cutover between GSP/Cbill refund... was Feb, now its Dec. This means that if you bought modules in dec 3rd or later you get cbills back, but anything prior is still refunded as GSP.

Bottom line, this is only a bad deal for people *counting* on all their modules converting back to CBills..

As for me... I'll never use 36,000 GSP, nor can I realistically need 1.6 billion cbills, so getting some of both is fine...

[John McHobo]

3 days.

The second test session was 3 days long.
In the middle of the week. From tuesday to friday.

I have NO idea what kind of data or feedback you might have possibly gathered in this time.
I really have a bad feeling about this.

[shameless]

they got tired of the salt. They're either going to scrap it, delay it, or force it in anyway. all of which is going to piss at least some portion of the community off.

[Xorkrath]

Okay, so I managed to dive with this stuff a little bit before it was shut down. Some of this is being written from memory since I write in drafts and the test was shut down shortly after I wrote the first draft. Anyway my first impression right now is that this is a disaster. The clicking on the UI is fine, don't mind the haters on that. The problem is the arbitrary way you align prerequisites is insane.

Prime example: why is "arm pitch" a prerequisite for anything? SOME. MECHS. DO. NOT. HAVE. ARMS. You can't even claim that "oh you're getting a benefit, just not one that you had wanted", because there is literally zero benefit to getting it. Zero, zip, zilch, nada.

Next, the AMS uprgrades don't belong in "Armor" tree at all. I don't know who convinced PGI that they did.. Worse yet, because of the hamstringing of pre-reqs, mechs that don't have AMS have to do some really bizzare jumping around to get some of the reinforcement nodes that are partially blocked by AMS upgrades. Because it is a piece of equipment available on a few select mechs, I think it needs to be merged with the "jump jet" tree in some fashion. Or at the very least, it should go to mech operations or miscellaneous. It makes a lot more sense to have it in those categories than it does to have it in armor. Rare equipment should never be a pre-req for basic stat boosts. Move the AMS nodes into different trees.

Speaking of arbitrary pre-reqs, I think the skill system would benefit greatly from being able to skill upward, instead of strictly downward. If you want people to have the freedom to create interesting builds, you need to loosen up these restrictions.

I think the UI could benefit from the "mech enhancement window" showcasing all possible benefits of the currently viewed tree window. Also it'd be nice if it would show the max possible value for each stat. When I finally tracked down where my coveted "enhanced NARC" was, I could only find two nodes for it. I looked over the tree several times to try to make sure I didn't miss it. If I had a column on the right side of that enhancement window that said "NARC beacon duration [current: 0%] new [15%] max [15%], at least I can tell at a glance that I obtained every node that I intended to get there.

*Also worth noting - big nerf to NARCs since the total possible benefit seems to be cut in half.

[MovinTarget]

shameless, on 29 April 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

they got tired of the salt. They're either going to scrap it, delay it, or force it in anyway. all of which is going to piss at least some portion of the community off.

Now now, they could give us all gold mechs, end world hunger, and cure cancer...

Some people would still expect more...

[MovinTarget]

Its prolly too late now but the the solution to over-buffing is to simply make some (higher?) Skills have trade offs so you could have less heat but less range, or shorter duration for longer cooldowns...

This way the tradeoffs are clear and explicit.

Ah well...

[Sardauker Legion]

Jay Leon Hart, on 29 April 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

Yes, only "new" modules get a C-Bill refund.
However, "old" modules get a GSP refund - not GXP, GSP.
You get a number of HSP for each 'mech, dependent on how many skills you have unlocked in the current system. A mastered 'mech in the current system gets 91 HSP, so you can master it with no further cost in the new system. A huge benefit compared to the massive C-Bill costs from the previous iteration.

Sorry, but it's like spending money for a extra Hard Disk, and getting a new monitor.
The monitor itself may be nice, but it's not what i spent my money for.

[MovinTarget]

Anavel Gato2, on 29 April 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

Sorry, but it's like spending money for a extra Hard Disk, and getting a new monitor.
The monitor itself may be nice, but it's not what i spent my money for.

Its not quite that bad, because you've had that hard disk for months, maybe years... and then it morphed into a monitor.

I won't say you didn't get your moneys worth, but don't make it out like its some kind of highway robbery.

[Sardauker Legion]

MovinTarget, on 29 April 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

Its not quite that bad, because you've had that hard disk for months, maybe years... and then it morphed into a monitor.

I won't say you didn't get your moneys worth, but don't make it out like its some kind of highway robbery.

i counted my uninstalled modules: 95 weapon and 3 mech modules.
selling them i shoud get over 1.500 million cbills - how many "civil war" tech can i buy with that?
than half of my 150 mechs have 2 weapon 2 mech modules..... sell or not sell, that's the question.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Anavel Gato2, on 29 April 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

Sorry, but it's like spending money for a extra Hard Disk, and getting a new monitor.
The monitor itself may be nice, but it's not what i spent my money for.

No, it's like getting 1,000 coupons to rent a new HDD every month.
The coupons themselves have no intrinsic value, but you can choose to sell the HDD you have, before you have to trade-in.

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 29 April 2017 - 12:06 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Anavel Gato2, on 29 April 2017 - 12:02 PM, said:

i counted my uninstalled modules: 95 weapon and 3 mech modules.
selling them i shoud get over 1.500 million cbills - how many "civil war" tech can i buy with that?
than half of my 150 mechs have 2 weapon 2 mech modules..... sell or not sell, that's the question.

I have 300+ weapon modules... just weapon modules... I stood to get 1.6 BILLION cbills in a straight up refund.

but consider this.

If you get some back in cbills and some back in GSP, it will be EASIER to insta-level new mechs bought with the cbills from later modules refunded, and insta-level those same mechs with the GSP from earlier modules being refunded.

Did you you buy any mech packs that are due to be released?

insta-leveled. boom.

Don't make it out like it would be useless... especially if you are talking about buying mechs in the future.

[Arkaiko]

Peiper, on 28 April 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

Answer: light machine/heavy machine guns, micro lasers, light PPC's, stealth armor, laser AMS (no ammo).

I also think that things are going to have to shake out a bit to figure out whether some mechs are viable or not. If there is absolutely no way a mech can compete, I foresee PGI rolling out some quirks again. When making sweeping changes, even if they are shuffles rather that big buffs or nerfs as with the new skill tree, there's going to be some casualties. Speculating is difficult. Those of my friends who've downloaded the test client can't even find matches when they're playing. Like Michaelson Snow said in a previous post: just give us the damned skill tree already! (I'm neutral about that, but it would end the speculation right quick!)

thats on civil war, this is another patch, why should let mechs broken for months?

[Sardauker Legion]

MovinTarget, on 29 April 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

I have 300+ weapon modules... just weapon modules... I stood to get 1.6 BILLION cbills in a straight up refund.

but consider this.

If you get some back in cbills and some back in GSP, it will be EASIER to insta-level new mechs bought with the cbills from later modules refunded, and insta-level those same mechs with the GSP from earlier modules being refunded.

Did you you buy any mech packs that are due to be released?

insta-leveled. boom.

Don't make it out like it would be useless... especially if you are talking about buying mechs in the future.

why should i buy new mech packs, if now i need to skill one only?
Even so, i took the Hero Wolfhound and Enforcer, and Uziel and Madcat 2 Pack