549 replies to this topic

[MovinTarget]

I am not saying you should but if you did already pay for mech(packs) yet to be delivered, GSP would still be of use...

Some people may have bought the 20-24 mechs of the civil war series, thus needing 2k skill points there alone...

Maybe you didn't.

I am just pointiong out this isn't as bad a refund as some make it out to be...

You could get 1.5 million cbills, but then you have to get the mechbays to house all those mechs... that takes MC

[Peiper]

Arkaiko, on 29 April 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

thats on civil war, this is another patch, why should let mechs broken for months?

You're assuming.

[Schmu666]

Hey, i have a short question regarding this new XP system (im a new player).
Does it mean we dont have that progression wall (Elite/Master) anymore?
Can I use my 70.000 mech exp for something now?

Short example of my situation:
I love playing the Timber Prime, but dont have the CB/MC to get that mech to elite/master.
Under the new Skilltree, can i unlock the TBR-Primes 91 Skillpoints only using my mecha exp?

Thanks alot, I've read the patchnotes, but this XP system is new to me and difficult to fully understand

[Jay Leon Hart]

Schmu666, on 29 April 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

Hey, i have a short question regarding this new XP system (im a new player).
Does it mean we dont have that progression wall (Elite/Master) anymore?
Can I use my 70.000 mech exp for something now?

Short example of my situation:
I love playing the Timber Prime, but dont have the CB/MC to get that mech to elite/master.
Under the new Skilltree, can i unlock the TBR-Primes 91 Skillpoints only using my mecha exp?

Thanks alot, I've read the patchnotes, but this XP system is new to me and difficult to fully understand

Yea and no.
You will no longer need 3 of the same chassis to unlock Eilte skills for purchase, you can purchase all 91 nodes with just 1 chassis variant.
However, skill nodes will cost both XP *and* C-Bills, as a C-Bill sink to replace Modules.

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 29 April 2017 - 02:44 PM.

[Schmu666]

Jay Leon Hart, on 29 April 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

Yea and no.
You will no longer need 3 of the same chassis to unlock Eilte skills for purchase, you can purchase all 91 nodes with just 1 chassis variant.
However, skill nodes will cost both XP *and* C-Bills, as a C-Bill sink to replace Modules.

thanks, thats actually great news to me

[Jay Leon Hart]

Schmu666, on 29 April 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

thanks, thats actually great news to me

Something I neglected to mention;
Depending on what skills you have unlocked, you will get a number of HSP (Historical Skill Points) per 'mech, multiplied by how many of that variant you own.
For Basic, you would get 23 HSP.
If you had 3 TBR-Prime, you would get 69 HSP.

[Schmu666]

Jay Leon Hart, on 29 April 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

Something I neglected to mention;
Depending on what skills you have unlocked, you will get a number of HSP (Historical Skill Points) per 'mech, multiplied by how many of that variant you own.
For Basic, you would get 23 HSP.
If you had 3 TBR-Prime, you would get 69 HSP.

nice, im wondering.. will we get different "loadouts" too? not switching between different skill loadouts without "XP penalties" seems contraproductive when it comes to playing/trying diverse playstyles?

[DangerousOne]

Schmu666, on 29 April 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

nice, im wondering.. will we get different "loadouts" too? not switching between different skill loadouts without "XP penalties" seems contraproductive when it comes to playing/trying diverse playstyles?

That is why this game is "free to play". Counter productive in game features is just one of the ways to try to make you spend reall money to progress faster. The whole stuff with the new skill tree mostly because of this factor.

Edited by DangerousOne, 29 April 2017 - 11:46 PM.

[testhero]

Xorkrath, on 29 April 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

• Next, the AMS uprgrades don't belong in "Armor" tree at all.
  
• I don't know who convinced PGI that they did..
  
• Worse yet, because of the hamstringing of pre-reqs, mechs that don't have AMS have to do some really bizzare jumping around to get some of the reinforcement nodes that are partially blocked by AMS upgrades.
  
• Because it is a piece of equipment available on a few select mechs,
  
• I think it needs to be merged with the "jump jet" tree in some fashion. Or at the very least, it should go to mech operations or miscellaneous. It makes a lot more sense to have it in those categories than it does to have it in armor.
  
• Rare equipment should never be a pre-req for basic stat boosts. Move the AMS nodes into different trees.

• The AMS upgrades are in the Survival tree (Armour) because they prevent damage to your mech.
  
• Wouldn't have needed any convincing it is pretty simple helps mech survival lets put it in the Survival tree
  
• Almost all mechs have AMS Hard-points. I would say All Mechs but there might be one out there that misses out. If you don't want AMS Upgrades you can chose to take <Shock Absorbance 1> instead of <AMS Overload 1> and the path around <AMS Overload 2> is <Armour Hardening 1> which is the Cherry in the cake most people are looking for anyway.
  
• Available on a few select mechs ?????? Every variant of IS mech has, at least one AMS Hard-point, All variants of clan BattleMechs have, at least one AMS hard-point. On Clan OmniMechs there are some exceptions I know, not all Timberwolf variants have an AMS hard-point. You have to fit a TBR-C LT Omnipod or the Hellbringer where you fit the HBR-Prime head Omnipod But that is a choice you decide when fitting your Omnipods. Do I value and fit a 1 Missile 1 AMS LT Omnipod on my Timberwolf, or will I take 3 more energy hard-points or a two Missile Hard-point.
  
• Why in hell would it make sense in the Jump Jets Tree??? It is just as silly in Auxillary Tree. A case might be made of shifting it to Mech Operations. But do you want to have to unlock <AMS Overload 1> to get to <Heat Containment 1> or <Cool Run 3>? (it could give a choice between <AMS Overload 1>,<Speed Retention 1> or <Improved Gyros 1>)
  
• AMS is common as mud and is in no way a prerequisite for further Survival skills

Enhanced <NARC 1> and <Enhanced NARC 2 > +5% each at a cost of 7 Nodes in the Auxiliary tree yeah that is a significant nerf and I am not sure Aux is the tree for it either. It would be more appropriate for the weapons tree. Except that would be cramming another thing into an already overly complex Skill tree

[DangerousOne]

testhero, on 29 April 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

[/list]

• The AMS upgrades are in the Survival tree (Armour) because they prevent damage to your mech.
  
• Wouldn't have needed any convincing it is pretty simple helps mech survival lets put it in the Survival tree
  
• Almost all mechs have AMS Hard-points. I would say All Mechs but there might be one out there that misses out. If you don't want AMS Upgrades you can chose to take <Shock Absorbance 1> instead of <AMS Overload 1> and the path around <AMS Overload 2> is <Armour Hardening 1> which is the Cherry in the cake most people are looking for anyway.
  
• Available on a few select mechs ?????? Every variant of IS mech has, at least one AMS Hard-point, All variants of clan BattleMechs have, at least one AMS hard-point. On Clan OmniMechs there are some exceptions I know, not all Timberwolf variants have an AMS hard-point. You have to fit a TBR-C LT Omnipod or the Hellbringer where you fit the HBR-Prime head Omnipod But that is a choice you decide when fitting your Omnipods. Do I value and fit a 1 Missile 1 AMS LT Omnipod on my Timberwolf, or will I take 3 more energy hard-points or a two Missile Hard-point.
  
• Why in hell would it make sense in the Jump Jets Tree??? It is just as silly in Auxillary Tree. A case might be made of shifting it to Mech Operations. But do you want to have to unlock <AMS Overload 1> to get to <Heat Containment 1> or <Cool Run 3>? (it could give a choice between <AMS Overload 1>,<Speed Retention 1> or <Improved Gyros 1>)
  
• AMS is common as mud and is in no way a prerequisite for further Survival skills

Enhanced <NARC 1> and <Enhanced NARC 2 > +5% each at a cost of 7 Nodes in the Auxiliary tree yeah that is a significant nerf and I am not sure Aux is the tree for it either. It would be more appropriate for the weapons tree. Except that would be cramming another thing into an already overly complex Skill tree

It's nice to see that you like your post (Also there are some reasonable thoughts in there. But skill tree is still messy and forces you to do things you wouldn't do if you have full control over said tree)

I think I'll like my posting either. Cuz why not.

Edited by DangerousOne, 30 April 2017 - 12:03 AM.

[50 50]

Cathy, on 29 April 2017 - 06:48 AM, said:

I'm curious, why P.G.I did you use the mech that desync is going to have the least effect on as your example ?

I'm cautiously in favour of desync, but I still want to know why you didn't use a fast assault mech in the example. The type that are going to be most effected by the latency in the new mechanic.

Got to disagree with you there.
There is stuff all difference on the assaults.
But an Urbie with stock engine, we know it moved like a wet sponge.
So in the example it is very easy to see what the difference is for a mech of that tonnage that has such a low rated engine.
It's a good and visibly obvious example.

[DangerousOne]

50 50, on 30 April 2017 - 12:41 AM, said:

Got to disagree with you there.
There is stuff all difference on the assaults.
But an Urbie with stock engine, we know it moved like a wet sponge.
So in the example it is very easy to see what the difference is for a mech of that tonnage that has such a low rated engine.
It's a good and visibly obvious example.

Night Gyr and other low rate engine mechs like this desync thingy. Frakload of weapons and at last decent mobility (I mean dynamics) for tonnage. Yay!

Edited by DangerousOne, 30 April 2017 - 03:00 AM.

[Keylan Carlyle]

I might have missed it, if it has already been answered, But will i get historic-SP on Variants i have already masterd, but no mech standing in my hangar (due to beeing sold).

As far as i know you get an amount og hSP for your unlocks multiplied bt the amount of mechs you have form this variant, wich would mean no HSP if you dont own that mech anymore?

[John McHobo]

Quote

Night Gyr and other low rate engine mechs like this desync thingy. Frakload of weapons and at last decent mobility (I mean dynamics) for tonnage. Yay!

At the same time mechs with large engine ratings or fixed engines loose the mobility advantage they had over their less agile, trigger happy cousins.
In praxis that means that the Linebacker (remember the Linebacker, a rare sight) now not only has less firepower than for example the Night Gyr (a mech you see quite often) but also the same agility. Apart from a higher top speed there is NO further use for that humongous engine all the while the Night Gyr gets to have the same firepower AND more agility.
In a weird twist that also means that the Night Gyr becomes completely superior to the Timber Wolf.

Cumbersome mechs gain another advantage, agile mechs loose their only strength (because mobile mechs had such a great advantage in the current meta...). This is not a shifting of game mechanics, its flipping over the table and see what still clings to it.
Lower TTK and less movement in games is the logical result. And that sucks.

edit: grammar, spelling

Edited by John McHobo, 30 April 2017 - 03:20 AM.

[MovinTarget]

In many game modes, speed is still life... linebacker will still have its place in quick strike scenarios...

[Bluttrunken]

John McHobo, on 30 April 2017 - 03:17 AM, said:

In praxis that means that the Linebacker (remember the Linebacker, a rare sight) now not only has less firepower than for example the Night Gyr (a mech you see quite often) but also the same agility.

Nope. The agility after the engine decoupling depends on the mech in question. Mechs which are supposed to be more agile than their counterparts will behave different than other mechs in their weight class. The Night Gyr will stay bulky and the Linebacker will stay agile as far as PGI stated and planned it. Mechs like the Linebacker, Quickdraw, Gargoyle, Viper, Cicada will be as nimble, in comparison, as they are now.

In short: not all mechs in a given weight class share one mobility archetype. Every chassis has it's own archetype.

Less agile mechs won't benefit as much from higher engine ratings anymore and won't see benefits to their twist speeds and, iirc, accel/deccel which is a good thing, imo.

Edited by Bluttrunken, 30 April 2017 - 04:35 AM.

[MovinTarget]

For thise arguing that agility decoupling makes no sense, i would invite you to explain why drag race/funny cars machines have some of the most powerful engines modern technology can offer, how agile are they? That means they are good for more than accelerating in a straight line, right?

So much more is required for a machine to be agile than just their power source.

Edited by MovinTarget, 30 April 2017 - 05:41 AM.

[DangerousOne]

MovinTarget, on 30 April 2017 - 05:40 AM, said:

For thise arguing that agility decoupling makes no sense, i would invite you to explain why drag race/funny cars machines have some of the most powerful engines modern technology can offer, how agile are they? That means they are good for more than accelerating in a straight line, right?

So much more is required for a machine to be agile than just their power source.

It's totally wrong to compare real world cars and space opera (not science fiction) giant humanoid robots. If you'll try to build something like a mech from Battletech IRL it won't be able to move at speeds depicted in fiction. And one of the many but main reason of this is square-cube law. Under any significant accelleration IRL battlemech will just torn itself to pices no matter what possible super materials you'll use to build it.

I don't event compare probable real battle effectivnes of main battle tank like war machine and giant humanoid (chicken, frog etc) robot like war machine of the same technological level, size and weight. Giant robot just don't stand a chance.

Edited by DangerousOne, 30 April 2017 - 06:42 AM.

[Xorkrath]

testhero, on 29 April 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

Snip

1: A lot of things "help me survive" and/or "prevent damage to my mech", and not all of them are in the "armor" tree. In fact very few of them are. AMS is active external equipment, not body armor reinforcement and/or shock absorbers. And it's "defense" lends itself to anything in range, so all in all, thematically, it has more in common with ECM than it does with armor. Mech operations is a much better fit for it. You can make a point about other odd pre-reqs in other trees to get to AMS, but it's PGI that's decided that a tree with strange pre-reqs is mandatory

2: "Some variant of an IS mech" isn't helpful if your current variant doesn't carry it. And if you want to make an argument for Clans being able to switch omnipods to take better armor nodes than the IS can, you're further imbalancing the dynamic there. The discussions on these forums all indicate they're trying to go in the opposite direction.

3: I twice now made the case for why AMS makes better sense elsewhere. One example, not exclusively, was the jump jet tree since they're both optional external equipment not available on all mechs. All you have to do is rename the tree, which you yourself just did in trying to justify a phalanx anti missile system being a part of the armor reinforcement tree. Don't think for a moment that slipped by me, "survival".

[MovinTarget]

DangerousOne, on 30 April 2017 - 06:28 AM, said:

It's totally wrong to compare real world cars and space opera (not science fiction) giant humanoid robots. If you'll try to build something like a mech from Battletech IRL it won't be able to move at speeds depicted in fiction. And one of the many but main reason of this is square-cube law. Under any significant accelleration IRL battlemech will just torn itself to pices.

I don't event compare probable real battle effectivnes of main battle tank like war machine and giant humanoid (chicken, frog etc) robot war machine of the same technological level, size and weight. Giant robot just don't stand a chance.

You're right, but suspension of disbelief requires at least some grain of truth (i.e. physics) even if it is not entirely logical/feasible...

My point is that raw power cannot magically translate to better handling without other factors involving the machine's tuning/construction...

Edited by MovinTarget, 30 April 2017 - 06:59 AM.