58 replies to this topic

[SuomiWarder]

The skill tree felt like a global "detune" or "nerf" is you want to me as well. Which is overall probably a good thing. And I suspect that the difference between the "top tier" mechs and the bottom rungs will be a smaller difference. Nothing is really changing places but the under achievers will live to underachieve longer per match.

[Shifty McSwift]

Tarl Cabot, on 27 April 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

Before the doubling of armor/internal structure, PGI practically halved weapons cooldown timers cause IGP/family-friends complained it was taking too long to kill mechs, and this was with IS mechs, SHS and STD engine and no 12vs12 matches.

Back when you were lucky to get 7 weapon hardpoints as an assault? Yeah those were the days.

These days I'm like; "well if its not a 100 ton mech with 12 hardpoints doing 70kph, whats the point?"

[chucklesMuch]

Tarogato, on 27 April 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

It's not really a global nerf though, it's more of a global redistribution. Agility is going down and firepower is creeping up, but hitpoints are also going up and infotech is going down.

Mmm... and people want this?

[Shifty McSwift]

Firepower isn't directly going up, dps may jump a little but there's lost space to make up for, and mech mobility overall took a hit along with the skill patch it seems, so those are arguable points in ways. Also it is hard to argue it is a buff when one has to sacrifice other skills they had previously to get the bonuses.

Consumables specifically got "buffed" for sure, but otherwise, potentials got higher and we got more options, but that doesn't make it a buff or nerf I guess, just a system change.

[BurningDesire]

well my Cicada 3c is now worse than it is now and it took some skill to use right now its just crap

[Tarogato]

chucklesMuch, on 27 April 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

Mmm... and people want this?

I mean, I'm all for the agility nerfs. I think it's wrong that heavy mechs handle like I would expect medium mechs to handle. And the infotech nerf... sure. Makes having target info actually a rather big deal, at least for the people to whom it matters, which like like the middle majority of the population. But I'm not keen on the firepower tree and bonus health tree myself. I think they add nothing, and they're pretty much the two things you go to first with every build - that and speed tweak. And they add tankiness in percent, which in my opinion is a bad move. Because now you need to do math to figure out how many hitpoints you have, it's no longer straightforward. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Pr8Dator2]

Tarogato, on 27 April 2017 - 11:22 PM, said:

I mean, I'm all for the agility nerfs. I think it's wrong that heavy mechs handle like I would expect medium mechs to handle. And the infotech nerf... sure. Makes having target info actually a rather big deal, at least for the people to whom it matters, which like like the middle majority of the population. But I'm not keen on the firepower tree and bonus health tree myself. I think they add nothing, and they're pretty much the two things you go to first with every build - that and speed tweak. And they add tankiness in percent, which in my opinion is a bad move. Because now you need to do math to figure out how many hitpoints you have, it's no longer straightforward. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

EXACTLY!

[Vellron2005]

Guys, I would just like to point out that the widespread nerfing is not only happening because of quirks being removed..

A big part of it is the engine decoupling and mobility equalization per weight class

If a Kodiak or Marauder IIC is suddenly as sluggish as a Direwolf or Atlas.. that's a BIG nerf..

So it's not true that quirkless mechs are not being nerfed..

[HGAK47]

So OP you honestly believe mechs like the Spider, especially the 5V needed a nerf? You feel that locusts needed a nerf? The Centurion!?

Im all for increasing TTK but it has to be done proportionally for all mechs. You cant hit weak mechs with a nerf, leaving the go to mechs at the top of the power curve and then say "Yes yes this is good".

Its totally not the end of the world and some people are over reacting but there is legitimate concern about balance here. This is not some plea for personal comfort. This is actual logic trying to find a solution.

[Zigmund Freud]

BTW, about this new skill tree, do i get my XP back? I maxed out a lot of mechs, so does it all go to waste, or we get some kind of Xp cashback?

[Felix von Buelow]

HGAK47, on 28 April 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

So OP you honestly believe mechs like the Spider, especially the 5V needed a nerf? You feel that locusts needed a nerf? The Centurion!?

Im all for increasing TTK but it has to be done proportionally for all mechs. You cant hit weak mechs with a nerf, leaving the go to mechs at the top of the power curve and then say "Yes yes this is good".

Its totally not the end of the world and some people are over reacting but there is legitimate concern about balance here. This is not some plea for personal comfort. This is actual logic trying to find a solution.

OP was looking at the skill tree and the quirk nerf independently, which you are not. If you just look at the new skill tree it's a fair nerf across the board. Regarding quirks that's a completely different topic.

Edited by GhostNemesys, 28 April 2017 - 01:33 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

BTW, about this new skill tree, do i get my XP back? I maxed out a lot of mechs, so does it all go to waste, or we get some kind of Xp cashback?

as far as XP goes, you get everything back

what people are mad about is modules, you dont get cbills back for modules

[El Bandito]

Global nerf? More like double nerf, for the IS.

[Felix von Buelow]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2017 - 01:37 AM, said:

Global nerf? More like double nerf, for the IS.

Here again. Skill tree alone is fine, quirk reduction is not.
And I'm an IS loyalist with both of my accounts, so no Clan bias here.

[HGAK47]

GhostNemesys, on 28 April 2017 - 01:40 AM, said:

Here again. Skill tree alone is fine, quirk reduction is not.
And I'm an IS loyalist with both of my accounts, so no Clan bias here.

I tend to play more with IS mechs but I love both Clan and IS stuff I am not at all bias. I just really worry that my IS mechs (at least the ones I own) are being smushed.

Im just downloading the test sever stuff now so I can go and give this all a try for myself. There may be some odd things you can do that will make for fun builds (I hope).

[Roadbuster]

Pr8Dator2, on 27 April 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

Too many complains about how their mechs are not as agile as before, not shooting as much DPS as before with the new skill tree but they miss one point...

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS GAME NEEDS NOW!

This game has power creeped to a point where fights last 3 seconds and one missed shot means you die! This has become such an unfriendly game for the casual player and even some veterans that its going to be INSANE with the new weapons coming up!

We need a global nerf to make this game playable again! Less speed, less DPS, more forgiving, less light/assault gap. This is the exact most important thing about this skill tree IMO. Complainers forget, its not your mech alone getting hit, EVERY mech is getting hit, some more than others but all for a better and more forgiving game!

I played the test server and my lance of HBK IIC became so sluggish I am sure I won't be bossing around in them like before and thats a GOOD THING!! Less heavy and medium mechs running and fllying around like light mechs and less light mechs behaving like ninjas that cant be dropped by 4 mechs firing at 1 of them at the same time for over 20 seconds!

The only thing we need is some form of compensation for clearly underperforming mechs.
Don't get me wrong. I like playing underdogs and experimenting with odd loadouts. But it would be nice if you wouldn't handicap yourself just because you chose XYZ mech.

TTK should be alot higher, and I welcome any change which increases the TTK. Same with every change which reduces boating and encourages mixed loadouts.

[SmokedJag]

Vellron2005, on 28 April 2017 - 12:59 AM, said:

Guys, I would just like to point out that the widespread nerfing is not only happening because of quirks being removed..

A big part of it is the engine decoupling and mobility equalization per weight class

If a Kodiak or Marauder IIC is suddenly as sluggish as a Direwolf or Atlas.. that's a BIG nerf..

So it's not true that quirkless mechs are not being nerfed..

If people would actually look at what PGI did...

Marauder IIC and Kodiak 3 are directly nerfed, hard, in the mobility table. Their engines are decoupled and their base attributes are set at the chassis baseline. Which puts the Kodiak torso etc. comparable to the Dire Wolf and leaves the Warhawk with better mobility attributes than the MAD IIC.

At the same time, they've cooked the underperforming Clan Omnis stats into the baseline (they retain/get agility for free) while making full tank and full mobility mutually exclusive if you still want weapons nodes.

[TKSax]

Below is my Kodak in the pts yea it really got nerfed... with guass ppc build I had on it was a total monster stop and started on a dime and felt even better than I remember the at release kdk3.

Edited by TKSax, 28 April 2017 - 04:40 AM.

[Roadbuster]

HGAK47, on 28 April 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

So OP you honestly believe mechs like the Spider, especially the 5V needed a nerf? You feel that locusts needed a nerf? The Centurion!?

Im all for increasing TTK but it has to be done proportionally for all mechs. You cant hit weak mechs with a nerf, leaving the go to mechs at the top of the power curve and then say "Yes yes this is good".

Its totally not the end of the world and some people are over reacting but there is legitimate concern about balance here. This is not some plea for personal comfort. This is actual logic trying to find a solution.

Well...the Locust...
Let's just say it's not weak.
But you're absolutely right.

That's the reason why the only light mechs you see are Cheetahs, Locusts and some Jenners and Ravens.
The rest of the light mechs is rare, because they just can't keep up with these powerhouses.
And it's the same for every weight class. Kintaro, Trebuchet, Dragon, Orion, Zeus, Victor, Gargoyle,...

So, yes. There's a number of mechs who need some love to bring them back to the battlefield.
I'm curious what the new weapons will bring for IS, but I doubt that they will turn the underdogs into "good" mechs.

[Clownwarlord]

A global nerf will increase TTK ... .