128 replies to this topic

[4rcs1ne]

Kubernetes, on 30 April 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

Or at least postpone it until it actually makes sense. Or simply adopt So1ahma's suggested tree.

I don't get it, is there some world-shattering event that's about to happen and PGI must race to release the skill tree before it drops? We've gone years with a crippled skill tree, and suddenly it's NOW NOW NOW GOTTADOITNOW? The current iteration of the tree sucks. I'm honestly dreading it because I'll probably quit playing. I've got a huge list of games I've put off playing in favor of MWO, and those titles are looking more and more appealing the closer we get to SkillTreemageddon.

Agreed. I'm already trying to distribute my time between Falcon 4 BMS and MWO 50/50. If the skill tree goes live as is, Falcon 4 will win 100% of my time.

[Shifty McSwift]

nitra, on 29 April 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

All you anti-perfectionist with your aint never anything perfect Mantra.

Psh and perfectionist backseat developers that constantly disagree with eachother would make certain we get nothing at all if devs tried to listen to their conflicting ideals of perfection.

Devs being perfectionists is one thing (it seems PGI are not that), it doesn't matter 2 iotas if the community is or not because mass perfection is an illusion let alone individual perfection.

If you feel you are a perfectionist, then get to work on a perfect game for us all to enjoy. It needs to be perfect to all of us though remember.

[Coolant]

agree with OP, but even before that on the 1st iteration of the skill tree.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

I want the latest Skill Tree to go live because, unlike earlier Skill Tree versions, it doesn't **** me over for having bought loads of 'Mechs but not loads of modules. I don't have to sell off 2/3 of my 'Mechs for funds to re-skill the rest- I can just re-skill all of my 'Mechs... which is how it should have been to begin with, Russ' "cheapskate" comment notwithstanding (as though dumping hundreds of bucks into the game made one 'cheap' by any stretch of the imagination- yeah, pull the other one).

Balance concerns are spreadsheet edits. The Skill Tree itself is overhauling a major game system... so let it go live, and then balance can proceed from there. It'll no doubt take a lot longer than we'd like it to, but sooner or later it'll get better. That's coming from someone whose favorite rides are the Phoenix Hawk, Vindicator, Panther, Urbanmech, and Commando, so we'll have no accusations of wanting Clanners to be OP again.

The skill system is gonna be overhauled, it needs to be overhauled (since it's clearly never getting removed completely, which would be my first choice), and there are options that can be taken to address any outstanding concerns with it (for instance, new players dropping in totally unskilled 'Mechs... the solution could be including custom trees with trial 'Mechs, since they already took that step with their builds). I wish that PGI weren't trashing quirks along with the old tree, but if that's the deal, then... well, I had exclusively IS 'Mechs before quirks happened in the first place, while Clanners were still paywalled and wrecking face, and I'm pretty sure I can survive a few more months of that before PGI gets its head screwed back on and realizes they still need quirks.

Get it done, then we can set about plugging the leaks. It's just a pain in the arse waiting and flopping back and forth between hating the new system so much that I don't want to play at all, and being indifferent towards it... they finally landed on one that I sort of like and which inconveniences me the least of all the proposals to date, so... screw it, I'm backing this one. It's time for the Drama Llama to exit this particular pasture.

Hardly a ringing endorsement, I know, but at this point "I can live with it" is about the kindest thing I can say on the subject. A month ago I was pretty sure I was going to just uninstall and was my hands of the game entirely, but the refund rework woke up the last three trampled-down cells in the optimistic hundred thousandth of my brain, so there's that. I sort of want to jump in and play again.

[Deathlike]

Shifty McSwift, on 30 April 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

Psh and perfectionist backseat developers that constantly disagree with eachother would make certain we get nothing at all if devs tried to listen to their conflicting ideals of perfection.

Devs being perfectionists is one thing (it seems PGI are not that), it doesn't matter 2 iotas if the community is or not because mass perfection is an illusion let alone individual perfection.

If you feel you are a perfectionist, then get to work on a perfect game for us all to enjoy. It needs to be perfect to all of us though remember.

I don't think things can be perfect, at this point asking for them to "suck less" would be an improvement but we can't have that either.

[Dodger79]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 30 April 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

I want the latest Skill Tree to go live because, unlike earlier Skill Tree versions, it doesn't **** me over for having bought loads of 'Mechs but not loads of modules. I don't have to sell off 2/3 of my 'Mechs for funds to re-skill the rest- I can just re-skill all of my 'Mechs... which is how it should have been to begin with, Russ' "cheapskate" comment notwithstanding (as though dumping hundreds of bucks into the game made one 'cheap' by any stretch of the imagination- yeah, pull the other one).

Balance concerns are spreadsheet edits. The Skill Tree itself is overhauling a major game system... so let it go live, and then balance can proceed from there. It'll no doubt take a lot longer than we'd like it to, but sooner or later it'll get better. That's coming from someone whose favorite rides are the Phoenix Hawk, Vindicator, Panther, Urbanmech, and Commando, so we'll have no accusations of wanting Clanners to be OP again.

The skill system is gonna be overhauled, it needs to be overhauled (since it's clearly never getting removed completely, which would be my first choice), and there are options that can be taken to address any outstanding concerns with it (for instance, new players dropping in totally unskilled 'Mechs... the solution could be including custom trees with trial 'Mechs, since they already took that step with their builds). I wish that PGI weren't trashing quirks along with the old tree, but if that's the deal, then... well, I had exclusively IS 'Mechs before quirks happened in the first place, while Clanners were still paywalled and wrecking face, and I'm pretty sure I can survive a few more months of that before PGI gets its head screwed back on and realizes they still need quirks.

Get it done, then we can set about plugging the leaks. It's just a pain in the arse waiting and flopping back and forth between hating the new system so much that I don't want to play at all, and being indifferent towards it... they finally landed on one that I sort of like and which inconveniences me the least of all the proposals to date, so... screw it, I'm backing this one. It's time for the Drama Llama to exit this particular pasture.

Hardly a ringing endorsement, I know, but at this point "I can live with it" is about the kindest thing I can say on the subject. A month ago I was pretty sure I was going to just uninstall and was my hands of the game entirely, but the refund rework woke up the last three trampled-down cells in the optimistic hundred thousandth of my brain, so there's that. I sort of want to jump in and play again.

So, in short: the skill tree is bollocks, but atleast you get enough refund to relevel your Mechs, so it's ok.

WHAT?!? It screws the balance, it screws the new player's experience, the UI is terrible, the different currencies are to much and to complicated, the skill-web itself is not logical, useless skills still included as a must-choose-in-order-to-advance. AND: your preferred refund-model screws the players that invested heavily in modules (it's alomost like the first iteration but the other way around), but as long as YOU are happy everything is ok. Now, THAT is an argument and fact one cannot deny.

[Dodger79]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 April 2017 - 10:12 AM, said:

No, in this analogy, you are claiming the craftsman has a hsitory of building bad chairs, when he's never actually built one yet to judge. But keep using bad illustrations if you think it makes your point somehow.

The initial comment I commented on was terribly worded. End of story.

Are you really denying the existence of the current skill system as PGIs first "chair" to be judged by? There IS a skill system, it IS bad, it DOES include skills which are doing exactly nothing despite costing XP to level them, and it WASN'T touched for 5 years. What exactly do you need more to get a feel of how PGI is treating the skill system?

[Shifty McSwift]

Deathlike, on 30 April 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

I don't think things can be perfect, at this point asking for them to "suck less" would be an improvement but we can't have that either.

At this point asking the community for less vague aggressive outbursts (read; "suck less" and the like) would be an improvement too, but apparently it is too much to ask for some to think out their criticisms and voice them without going off on a tangent and/or being insulting/condescending and/or mixing 50 opinionated issues into one post.

And much like there are people who can and do think through the voicing of criticisms and communicate them effectively, there are elements of the game that "don't suck".

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Shifty McSwift, on 30 April 2017 - 10:12 PM, said:

there are elements of the game that "don't suck".

unfortunately for us none of those elements are found in the Skill Maze...

[G4LV4TR0N]

FupDup, on 29 April 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

That's wishful thinking at best.

It should be "work in progress" for very long time. Adjustments, balancing etc...

[Deathlike]

Shifty McSwift, on 30 April 2017 - 10:12 PM, said:

At this point asking the community for less vague aggressive outbursts (read; "suck less" and the like) would be an improvement too, but apparently it is too much to ask for some to think out their criticisms and voice them without going off on a tangent and/or being insulting/condescending and/or mixing 50 opinionated issues into one post.

And much like there are people who can and do think through the voicing of criticisms and communicate them effectively, there are elements of the game that "don't suck".

It's been communicated before and it receives no response.

No response is no response. It's loud and clear to the rest of us.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 May 2017 - 11:02 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Deathlike, on 01 May 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

It's been communicated before and it receives no response.

No response is no response. It's loud and clear to the rest of us.

Unfortunately one of the definitions of insanity is trying the same thing and getting the same result, so maybe it drives people a little crazy too, and if neither forms of communication seem to be getting through at all, then yeah to me that is a strong reason not to hang around (as in pay into or even play the game or any games associated) until you see positive change from your perspective I guess.

Leaves the forum as free range though

[Deathlike]

Shifty McSwift, on 01 May 2017 - 11:14 AM, said:

Unfortunately one of the definitions of insanity is trying the same thing and getting the same result, so maybe it drives people a little crazy too, and if neither forms of communication seem to be getting through at all, then yeah to me that is a strong reason not to hang around (as in pay into or even play the game or any games associated) until you see positive change from your perspective I guess.

Leaves the forum as free range though

That's what already happens right now.

[Shifty McSwift]

Hence why it can so crazy.

[Phoolan Devi]

Kubernetes, on 30 April 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

Or at least postpone it until it actually makes sense. Or simply adopt So1ahma's suggested tree.

I don't get it, is there some world-shattering event that's about to happen and PGI must race to release the skill tree before it drops? We've gone years with a crippled skill tree, and suddenly it's NOW NOW NOW GOTTADOITNOW? The current iteration of the tree sucks. I'm honestly dreading it because I'll probably quit playing. I've got a huge list of games I've put off playing in favor of MWO, and those titles are looking more and more appealing the closer we get to SkillTreemageddon.

Yes there is! New tech and weapons are comming and this means, if they would postpone the skill tree after that, they would have to create for each weapon a range and cooldown node for the current system....you can calculate how many that would be.

If it gets postponed yet again, then it will never be implemented.

All they should so is do away with the GSP (or let the player decide if he wishes GSP or c-bills for modules) and I'm fine with the skill tree. I was ready for it in February/March......now, because of GSP, not anymore!

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Phoolan Devi, on 02 May 2017 - 09:41 PM, said:

If it gets postponed yet again, then it will never be implemented.

So... you are saying it should be postponed yet again??? I Agree!!!!!! Postpone the Skill Maze just like Energy Draw... FOREVER!!!!!!!

[Dodger79]

Phoolan Devi, on 02 May 2017 - 09:41 PM, said:

Yes there is! New tech and weapons are comming and this means, if they would postpone the skill tree after that, they would have to create for each weapon a range and cooldown node for the current system....you can calculate how many that would be.

If it gets postponed yet again, then it will never be implemented.

All they should so is do away with the GSP (or let the player decide if he wishes GSP or c-bills for modules) and I'm fine with the skill tree. I was ready for it in February/March......now, because of GSP, not anymore!

But, with the new tech arriving soon, they still have to add skill nodes for the new tech no matter if skill tree is already released or postponed. Only difference: if the tech gets added later, you might have to reskill with additional costs. If the tech comes before the tree, you can just go ahead and level a Mech ones.

[Phoolan Devi]

Dodger79, on 02 May 2017 - 11:46 PM, said:

But, with the new tech arriving soon, they still have to add skill nodes for the new tech no matter if skill tree is already released or postponed. Only difference: if the tech gets added later, you might have to reskill with additional costs. If the tech comes before the tree, you can just go ahead and level a Mech ones.

Why? With the new skill tree, what would they need to add? Nothing!

[Dodger79]

Phoolan Devi, on 02 May 2017 - 11:59 PM, said:

Why? With the new skill tree, what would they need to add? Nothing!

So, no skills for stealth armor, RACs etc.?

[Phoolan Devi]

Dodger79, on 03 May 2017 - 12:04 AM, said:

So, no skills for stealth armor, RACs etc.?

RAC's are covered in the ballistic section of the skill tree and what skills should there be for stealth armor? We do not have skills for endo and ferro either......