94 replies to this topic

[Coolant]

solution: if you move you generate xtra heat

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 02 May 2017 - 07:06 PM, said:

It really just goes to show that missile locks shouldn't be dependent on red doritos. You should be able to get a lock on any target in your LoS, with the caveat that targets without doritos just take longer to lock and lose the lock immediately if you can't hold your cursor over the target.

On the other hand, I would greatly enjoy running a light mech with Stealth Armor just to troll the living hell out of Skillcrows and other similar designs. They deserve it.

guess you can't count on broken hitreg and silly size to troll with anymore.... so why skill,when you can stealth to troll, instead, amirite?

[Tordin]

The neverending whining that all things PGI does are rightfully cleared for butchering is getting hilarious. Yes they do stupid stuff and it bothers me to sometimes. Alot to improve but sure some around here are in the same locker. Save the hysteria and froathing when the new tech comes

Anyway. Heat will balance it out I hope and if I read the Stealth armor description right, only works if you also have ECM. And among the "some" negative effects, I guess also firing weapons reveals you to sensors like normal.

An armor type that takes up 12 critical slots and is used alongside an ECM Suite. When its stealth effects are toggled on the 'Mech becomes invisible to all sensors, remaining visible only to the naked eye. However, the system has some negative effects while active, such as a buildup of heat.

I do hope this can force them to improve streaks and lrm mechanics (yeah, right but who knows) at least lurms. Maybe then noone have an excuse to scapegoat a weapons system, but sure they do want to make sure it get nerfed if it gets viable to. So you know, sadistic whining undermining.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Coolant, on 03 May 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

solution: if you move you generate xtra heat

Why make-up solutions when they already exist?

Stealth Armor makes you invisible to IR sensors because it traps all your heat in. Reactor heat, movement heat, weapon heat - you accumulate ALL of your heat as if you were running zero Heatsinks.

That is how stealth Armor works.

[GrimRiver]

Let's list what we already know about Stealth armor.

1.It's for IS mechs only.

2.It requires ECM.

3.It builds up heat over time while active. (We don't know how fast and how much heat builds up per second)

4.Takes up 12 slots.

5.Sensor data doesn't show up for users and targets alike.

6.You can't have 12 slots of FF, ENDO and SA(Stealth armor) at the same time.


IS XL ECM lights will have to give up FF and some armor or ammo or weapons due to the lack of weight saving FF gave just to run SA, same goes to ECM mediums and some ECM heavies, ECM assault might not be affected as much.

IS tech is very bulky, IS XL's takes up 6 slots total, 1 DHS takes up 3 slots and weapons...

Edited by GrimRiver, 03 May 2017 - 09:23 AM.

[Aleski]

Prosperity Park, on 03 May 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

Why make-up solutions when they already exist?

Stealth Armor makes you invisible to IR sensors because it traps all your heat in. Reactor heat, movement heat, weapon heat - you accumulate ALL of your heat as if you were running zero Heatsinks.

That is how stealth Armor works.

It should be like a ninja tool if it works that way : only a system to fade away without using any weapons...

[Felicitatem Parco]

Aleski, on 03 May 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

It should be like a ninja tool if it works that way : only a system to fade away without using any weapons...

Yes, stealth Armor is a scouting tool so you can spy on enemies and not get noticed by folks sweeping their surroundings with Heat Vision. You could also use it for an approach tool prior to engaging with weapons.

Using weapons with SA engaged is almost suicide.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 03 May 2017 - 01:43 AM, said:

Only thing we know are what the devs told us here, and even that can be changed. https://youtu.be/uPEOauKEGhU?t=2712

Correct. Your allies can easily shoot you by accident.

I really wish the old ECM feature of disabling information for all mechs -- friends and foes alike -- within range comes back.

[razenWing]

Flat Heat Tax and Activation Timer are the two "wacky PGI solutions" that I speak of in the original post.

I can almost guarantee you that had I not made this thread, those 2 would not be present on launch day. (And only if they bother to read this, might it get implemented)

But let me make it abundantly clear...

THERE ARE NO INDICATION THAT THE ABOVE TWO SCENARIO IS THE DIRECTION PGI WAS DOING.

Cause, I can easily make up shat too.

12 slots? That's no big deal if you can spread them to arms and legs. (like the dynamic slots right now) You talk about 3 tons of space saving? Jesus man, turn off artemis and boom... there it is. You really think 3 tons is a big deal? Get real. It's a convenience, not a make or break, especially not for the trade-off of permanent target disruption.

And no, I definitely agree that "paying attention" if can be a solution, then don't b7tch about ECM now. ECM is consider a god armor for a reason. Stealth armor would be like Super Saiyan 9000 Super God armor. So don't give me that trash argument like "oh, I can handle it, so it must be okay" or "I am going definitely going to abuse it later, so I ain't saying sh7t now."

But for the sake of argument, I do hope you guys are right, that somehow PGI thought of inventing a Heat Tax and Activation Timer. Cause if not, in 2 months, I will take down all the names, necro this thread, and rub it in all your faces.

------------------

PS Additional thought, the whole concept of TAG is lazy AF in the first place. TAG shouldn't break anything nor function the way it is now. Ever watching war movies, what does TAG even do? It paints a target for missiles in flight. Meaning, missiles lock onto the actual painted location, NOT THE TARGET itself. There should be no missile warning, but TAG has to be painted on a target until missile arrival. But clearly, that's not the mechanics we have here.

It's a minute distinction, but a distinction with implications none the less.

Edited by razenWing, 03 May 2017 - 10:24 AM.

[Mystere]

Coolant, on 03 May 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

solution: if you move you generate xtra heat

Solution to what problem, exactly?

[WarHippy]

Stealth armor has one major weakness in my book and that is you are likely to get shot by your team at least for awhile after it becomes available. My understanding from the description PGI gave is you don't show up with any information and can't be targeted for both enemies and allies. Right now when I see a mech running around without a dorito I know it is an enemy mech with ECM and something I can/should shoot, but with stealth armor anyone on my team is going to look like a valid target.

Stealth armor just seems like an unhealthy addition to the game for people using it and for people on a team with someone using it.

[razenWing]

WarHippy, on 03 May 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

Stealth armor has one major weakness in my book and that is you are likely to get shot by your team at least for awhile after it becomes available. My understanding from the description PGI gave is you don't show up with any information and can't be targeted for both enemies and allies. Right now when I see a mech running around without a dorito I know it is an enemy mech with ECM and something I can/should shoot, but with stealth armor anyone on my team is going to look like a valid target.

Stealth armor just seems like an unhealthy addition to the game for people using it and for people on a team with someone using it.

I agree with the last part, which is why I partly touched on it in the original post as well.

Let's assume even if stealth armor isn't going to be this god armor, and is actually quite... irrelevant,

THEN WHY THE FOK DID PGI THINK ITS A GOOD IDEA TO INTRODUCE IT? It's not a mainstream system. Nobody outside of hardcore lore fans that read through Sarna like their life depends on it, EVER heard of the "stealth" armor.

However, people have been clamoring for Reactive/Reflective armors, that will be far more useful and versatile. And those systems are mainstream for casual BT gamers that just play... hell... even Mech Commander.

So why are we not getting those instead of some niche thing from the bottom of the barrel? It's not like we ran out of things to do already.

My point is, regardless of how you look at it... whether it's going to be OP or nonsense, it doesn't make a lick of sense to even bring it into existence in the first place.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

razenWing, on 03 May 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

I agree with the last part, which is why I partly touched on it in the original post as well.

Let's assume even if stealth armor isn't going to be this god armor, and is actually quite... irrelevant,

THEN WHY THE FOK DID PGI THINK ITS A GOOD IDEA TO INTRODUCE IT? It's not a mainstream system. Nobody outside of hardcore lore fans that read through Sarna like their life depends on it, EVER heard of the "stealth" armor.

However, people have been clamoring for Reactive/Reflective armors, that will be far more useful and versatile. And those systems are mainstream for casual BT gamers that just play... hell... even Mech Commander.

So why are we not getting those instead of some niche thing from the bottom of the barrel? It's not like we ran out of things to do already.

My point is, regardless of how you look at it... whether it's going to be OP or nonsense, it doesn't make a lick of sense to even bring it into existence in the first place.

Reactive and Reflective armor are both Experimental until the 3080's, PGI doesn't do experimental tech in MWO. Stealth Armor on the other hand was in full production by Liao by the 3060's and not experimental tech.

[razenWing]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 03 May 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

Reactive and Reflective armor are both Experimental until the 3080's, PGI doesn't do experimental tech in MWO. Stealth Armor on the other hand was in full production by Liao by the 3060's and not experimental tech.

It's in Mechwarrior 4 during the height of the FedCom Civil War...

Edited by razenWing, 03 May 2017 - 12:01 PM.

[MechaBattler]

I like how the conversation went from "it's OP!" to "why did they bother with this PoS?"

Edited by MechaBattler, 03 May 2017 - 12:03 PM.

[razenWing]

MechaBattler, on 03 May 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

I like how the conversation went from "it's OP!" to "why did they bother with this PoS?"

To you maybe, I covered everything in my initial post. People just take bits and pieces of it as they fit.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

razenWing, on 03 May 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

It's in Mechwarrior 4 during the height of the FedCom Civil War...

MW4 also invented the Mad Cat MK2 out of thin air. Also, MW4 had the Bombast laser, an experimental weapon, and the ability to pack mechs with explosive charges to you could make your mech into a suicide bomb. You could also mount long tom cannons too. Can't do any of that in MWO. I mean PGI could add Primitive armor too, as it is standard equipment in this time frame, 2/3rds the armor/weight of standard armor, aka WORSE protection per tonnage of standard armor. But, we aren't getting it. Hell, the Bombast Laser looks like another MW4 creation as the books it is from were printed in 2008 and 2011, which are also the same books that have Reactive and Reflective armor, which you know kind of point to Reactive and Reflective armor being a MW4 creation and weren't given rules until much later on.

[MechaBattler]

I've been checking the thread occasionally. Just personally don't think it's worth debating it too hard since we haven't really got enough facts yet. And you know PGI, the only thing that stops them from putting something into the game is if enough people cancel their pre-orders. We'll get in game, if it's OP and everyone is dropping in ECM Stealth Armor, then they'll inevitably nerf into the ground. Though not before they get some sales on those ECM heroes.

[razenWing]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 03 May 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

MW4 also invented the Mad Cat MK2 out of thin air. Also, MW4 had the Bombast laser, an experimental weapon, and the ability to pack mechs with explosive charges to you could make your mech into a suicide bomb. You could also mount long tom cannons too. Can't do any of that in MWO. I mean PGI could add Primitive armor too, as it is standard equipment in this time frame, 2/3rds the armor/weight of standard armor, aka WORSE protection per tonnage of standard armor. But, we aren't getting it. Hell, the Bombast Laser looks like another MW4 creation as the books it is from were printed in 2008 and 2011, which are also the same books that have Reactive and Reflective armor, which you know kind of point to Reactive and Reflective armor being a MW4 creation and weren't given rules until much later on.

Yup, and the MKII is one of the pre-order pack. Funny how life turns out, eh?

Edit: That felt like a snark. My point is, PGI can absolutely decide the canon-city of whatever they see fit. I understand that from the die-hard lore book, maybe certain things are they way they are. But you are talking about a company that invented a own mech with own backstory, and stole lore from a technically not lore game. So, there's that.

Edited by razenWing, 03 May 2017 - 12:19 PM.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

razenWing, on 03 May 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

Yup, and the MKII is one of the pre-order pack. Funny how life turns out, eh?

Mad Cat MK2 was later made canon, as were every other system I mentioned. Note though, none of those systems are standard technology in the 3060's. PGI does not want to put in experimental weapons or systems into the game. They want to just do standard tech level stuff, which I can understand, there is already plenty of that.

Point is, while canon, they are experimental at this time, PGI doesn't put in experimental technology. If they did, then we could have gotten a lot more items. But, nope. As it is, Stealth Armor? We will see, you still lose that whole impossible to be locked onto thing if you lose the part of your mech with ECM in it. Since it is for IS mechs only, well, unlike clan mechs, that is not as tall of an order to do.

Locust Pirate's Bane
Raven 3L
Commando 2D
Wolfhound Hero
Spider 5D
Cicada 3M
Phoenix Hawk 1b
Phoenix Hawk 2
Enforcer Hero
Griffin 2N
Cataphract 0XP
Archer Tempest
Stalker 3FB
Cyclops 11-P
Atlas D-DC

Total of 15 mechs that can make use of Stealth Armor? Again not being able to cool as well due to constant heat going in from the armor, or heat being locked int while the system is active (which even with toggling on and off will still be in effect even if at say a .5 rate or reduced rate, it still is degrading the power of your heat sinks making it bad to have on once in a fight). It is a tool for positioning and retreating, not for combat. Like, I can see myself using it when I get hit with a PPC to toggle it on and run away, break locks and keep my *** safe on a retreat more than protecting myself in a fight. Breaking streaks? That sounds fun, but, again, it is for retreat, bigger issue is reaction time to trigger it from seeing streaks flying and to move out of the flight path of streaks to avoid taking damage, not easy to do imo. The main issue is going to be is it going to be +1 heat/s which would make DHS into SHS effectively, or prevent venting any heat, in which case even MOVING adds heat (ever notice moving full speed you get some 3% heat? Imagine that, constantly, that's going to be limiting, very limiting). Not to mention jump jets add heat, and weapons too.