330 replies to this topic

[Templar Dane]

El Bandito, on 06 May 2017 - 08:14 PM, said:

That's cause thanks to Clan whining, viable IS mechs such as Marauders, Warhammers, Black Knights, and Grasshoppers were nerfed, and their sizes were increased.

That's not even all of the first page.

[Y E O N N E]

Dakota1000, on 06 May 2017 - 09:05 PM, said:

All I've ever seen Riflemen do is walk near an enemy and be instantly vaporized from critical side torso loss. You'd have to do quite a bit to sell me on the idea of using one of those things for close up work, especially using medium lasers with their nearly second long duration along with UAC5s so I can stare at the enemy for nearly a full ERML burn.

Have you actually tried the RFL? Or are you just gauging based on the bads who fail at using it? Most of them are piloted excruciatingly badly. Like Blackjacks, most people simply don't understand how they work and they are usually easy kills regardless of how they were built. Also, incidentally, like Dragons.

For other combos, there are no other IS Heavies that can do PPCs in the sides with a Gauss in a similarly high-mounted arm. That is the golden combination the IS need to be competitive, and it's the only Heavy that has it. Incidentally, it can run that at Clan speeds, coldly, and with superlative agility that you'd need to equip MASC to exceed on anything else save maybe a Linebacker. It has to expose very little of itself to fire 100% of its weapons over a ridge around a corner. You can also adapt it for 5x MPL and an AC/20 for boom-and-zoom up close, if that's more your style.

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Also how would a Rifleman be any better than a Dragon for up close or mid range work when the Dragon has both defensive *and* offensive quirks and hitboxes that are pretty similar?

Hardpoints matter.

The RFL-3N in that configuration can vaporize an enemy in 3 seconds while the Dragon cannot. I'm talking you've just ripped out 90-150 damage in this time period. That's why you take it. Poking targets to death once they are inside the base doesn't work in CW, not if the enemy knows what he's doing. At that point, you need to be able to sit targets down fast and...33 points from the Dragon having to repeat three times is not it, even with the cool-down. In my experience, on a map like Emerald? Go big or go home with the up-front damage output. SRMs actually rule the roost there, so I'd say forget either and modify your deck to accommodate the CPLT-A1, ARC-5W, WHM-7S, etc.

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Lastly, deadsiding comes out a bit better than full torso damage spreading with an XL in terms of how much damage you can take since letting damage go through a destroyed component reduces the damage heavily. Meanwhile your XL build cannot lose a side torso so that it may absorb damage.

Nobody worth his salt is going to actually let you dead-side it, though. That's what I'm trying to tell you. They are just going to hold fire until the target they want presents itself. So in the end, you either end up dead or disarmed (AKA dead). That's what happens to everything that tries it. It's an obsolete technique, and has been obsolete for a very long time. The reason to go assym has nothing to do with dead-siding these days and everything to do with specializing a corner and improving convergence.

Dead-siding only works against bads and I don't build my 'Mechs banking on the enemy being bad.

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Centurions and Crabs aren't meta because they're just a couple of 50 ton mediums built for short range with some low mounts. Dragon is a 60 tonner with 75 tonner defense, most of its firepower is high mounted, and it brings triple LPL. I've done battles where I've taken over 500 damage in my Centurion through deadsiding. I will do unspeakable things with a mech as armored and with the hitboxes that the Dragon has.

The Marauder is a 75 tonner with 75 tonner defense and better firepower than the Dragon (so a wash if you count quirks) and it's also not meta, for exactly the reasons I mentioned in the previous section of this reply. My point stands.

[El Bandito]

Templar Dane, on 06 May 2017 - 09:35 PM, said:

That's not even all of the first page.

Not surprised, considering how well Clans are doing even with 25 ton handicap. That should send red flag right away. But no, PGI is too dumb to realize that, since 2014.

Whatever. I am playing Clan mechs only in QP, and doing far better than my IS mechs, on all classes--Light/Medium/Heavy/Assault. That is enough proof for me.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 May 2017 - 09:38 PM.

[Templar Dane]

El Bandito, on 06 May 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

Not surprised, considering how well Clans are doing even with 25 ton handicap. That should send red flag right away. But no, PGI is too dumb to realize that, since 2014.

Whatever. I am playing Clan mechs only in QP, and doing far better than my IS mechs, on all classes--Light/Medium/Heavy/Assault. That is enough proof for me.

Odd, thought it was the organized clan units stomping pugs all day long.

El Bandito, on 06 May 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

Whatever. I am playing Clan mechs only in QP, and doing far better than my IS mechs, on all classes--Light/Medium/Heavy/Assault. That is enough proof for me.

Funnily enough I play mostly IS mechs when I play quickplay and I MUCH prefer them to clan. I MIGHT get higher damage numbers using clan in quickplay but that isn't the whole story because with isLPL vomit I kill what I shoot instead of splattering damage all over enemy mechs.

Our smoke jag contract ended yesterday. We were going to go IS again but since it's just the two of us and clan has less players, it made sense to stay clan to ensure short wait times.

But that wasn't the only reason. Out of the 22 games of invasion that we played, we only saw TWO 12-man groups on the enemy team. TWO. The rest of the time it was pure pug or maybe a 4 man group with 8 pugs. No way are the two of us gonna join in on that *********** that is IS pugs with trial mechs and LRMs.

[Andi Nagasia]

El Bandito, on 06 May 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

Not surprised, considering how well Clans are doing even with 25 ton handicap. That should send red flag right away. But no, PGI is too dumb to realize that, since 2014.

Whatever. I am playing Clan mechs only in QP, and doing far better than my IS mechs, on all classes--Light/Medium/Heavy/Assault. That is enough proof for me.

so in 1-3 days when Russ opens the Gates and allows some Merc Units to Swap Sides,
and suddenly the Tables are Turned to IS winning over Clan, do i get to make IS OP topics?

[El Bandito]

Andi Nagasia, on 06 May 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

so in 1-3 days when Russ opens the Gates and allows some Merc Units to Swap Sides,
and suddenly the Tables are Turned to IS winning over Clan, do i get to make IS OP topics?

El Bandito, on 06 May 2017 - 09:12 PM, said:

Big Mercs are the most faction swinging factor, but imbalance between factions can affect the reason many are playing as Clans in the first place.

Also, if the tech base becomes balanced, I believe mercs would be split more evenly.

All things being equal, Clan tech has the edge. That's all I am saying.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 May 2017 - 09:57 PM.

[FallingAce]

All i want to know is:

WHEN DID THE DRAGON BECOME META?

Why did nobody tell me?

Why have i done 9 FW invasion drops in the last 2 days and not seen 1 dragon? (Went 8-1 btw )

Why couldn't it be the 1N, the only dragon I didn't sell.

Are you getting a commission from Russ for every Dragon sold?

[Y E O N N E]

FallingAce, on 06 May 2017 - 10:07 PM, said:

All i want to know is:

WHEN DID THE DRAGON BECOME META?

Why did nobody tell me?

Why have i done 9 FW invasion drops in the last 2 days and not seen 1 dragon? (Went 8-1 btw )

Why couldn't it be the 1N, the only dragon I didn't sell.

Are you getting a commission from Russ for every Dragon sold?

Almost every 'Mech can be built to conform to the meta. If you can spam ERLL or LPL with it, it's good for CW.

[Zergling]

El Bandito, on 06 May 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

Whatever. I am playing Clan mechs only in QP, and doing far better than my IS mechs, on all classes--Light/Medium/Heavy/Assault. That is enough proof for me.

Similar to my experience. Very few IS mechs can compete with my Clan mechs in performance, which is why I hardly bother with IS anymore; almost all of their mechs are junk.

[Mystere]

Hey, all you ******* on both sides!

Do you know how this endless bickering will end? I do.

• Let us have battles with lore-based Clan vs. IS formations of various combinations.
  
• Let numbers and tonnage be automatically adjusted by a smart algorithm based on distance to major planets.

That's how! <maniacal >

<Of course, this is PGI we are talking about, though.>

[MechaBattler]

PGI, would you like to weigh in?

Pls take your time. I'll wait...

[Shifty McSwift]

The meta has sadly become; about a dozen or two competitively viable or top end mechs and hundreds of mechs that are the equivalent of scrap with legs and some shooters by comparison. A good pilot can make a huge difference in the performance of any mech in any specific game, but that good pilot in a meta mech will generally do much better than when in and under performing mech.

The top end has mechs from both IS and clan (more clan?) but is severely limited and held in place by what are very fragile mechanisms and/or slight changes that make massive differences.

They can either;

• Nerf down these meta mechs to the point where they become comparable to at least 50% of the mechbase, which should smooth out the meta dominance a little at least.
  
• Or they could attempt to rebalance weapons to reign in the potentials and create a better dynamic in weapon synergies and counters, good counters help combat overwhelming meta games like for example how we see SRMs as massively popular in scouting, natural SRM counters would maintain that in their own way.
  
• Or they can buff the rest of the mechs to comparable levels, which would open up the meta, but bring down TTK in the process.
  
• Or they could rebalance other systems in the hope of having a push on effect into how the meta is seen, like with the upcoming engine changes, and how that may push some mechs out of the meta and others in.
  
• Or they can stay the path and keep the meta mech list small, but considering the substantial nature of changes coming in the near future, it does seem like they want to shake things up a bit.

I would prefer a combination of the first two, but we seem to be getting a combination of the last two.

[Bishop Steiner]

MechaBattler, on 06 May 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

PGI, would you like to weigh in?

Pls take your time. I'll wait...

Why not? We've been waiting for them to really weigh in for 5 years....

[Templar Dane]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 May 2017 - 10:58 PM, said:

Why not? We've been waiting for them to really weigh in for 5 years....

Yeah but they do weigh in from time to time.

Like when nobody complained about non-KDK3 mechs using UACs........and they nerfed all UACs during laser vomit meta.

Like when gauss + ppc poptart meta was the rage, they nerfed ppc velocity and then halved all AC velocity as well gauss. They also gutted jumpjets. An easy fix could have just been disabling firing while off the ground but nooooooooo

I mean really, when they DO do something it seems like it's the wrong thing or they overdo it....like they misplaced the nerfbat and used a nerfnuke instead.

[MechaBattler]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 May 2017 - 10:58 PM, said:

Why not? We've been waiting for them to really weigh in for 5 years....

Well we've got Chris now working on balance, right? Maybe things will change?

[Valhallan]

Dakota1000, on 06 May 2017 - 07:52 PM, said:

People complain about two Clan mechs, the Kodiak and Night Gyr, I suggest IS use their two mech OP combo, except this one exists rather than being an exaggeration of endless waves of Kodiaks and Night Gyrs that can't possibly happen with 240 ton drop decks.

Because those are the best at their class, sure in FP the kdk is somewhat ok because it costs a lot of tonnage (/grumbles on IS not having something similar). but clanners just take the mad2c which is really good too.

It also doesn't help that frontloading is more dangerous for IS, since 1-2 streakcrows/vultures will invalidate the light tonnage, so that 25 tons is more on buffing that rear line to at least meds, meanwhile the cheetoh is still good (i don't think the ISSRM6 with double weight are gonna have the same effect).

Andi Nagasia, on 06 May 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

so in 1-3 days when Russ opens the Gates and allows some Merc Units to Swap Sides,
and suddenly the Tables are Turned to IS winning over Clan, do i get to make IS OP topics?

As someone else mentioned, yes the event is useless on its own for balance, but then i'm pretty sure most IS knew the balance state already meaning its just telling us what we already know, you wanna know when you can make IS OP topics? When IS mechs dominate the line-up in the top teams of the WC (assuming they do it again with real dosh).

Some might say, "buttt WC doesn't have the same rules! there are tonnage differences in CW!, its not the same thing!", Yea sure but unlike FP we are CERTAIN of the skills of both sides in the WC as well as the intent to win (no drunken playing and rping, unless someone can disillusion me be saying Emp won while totally wasted). It is FAR MORE useful for balance than the anecdotal postings of X unit slumming it in IS and murdering the randos. (this is also ignoring that PGI stated that the weight difference would be temporary and that IS is getting nerfs across the board on ST release)

MechaBattler, on 06 May 2017 - 11:08 PM, said:

Well we've got Chris now working on balance, right? Maybe things will change?

Maybe he will be PGI Focht?

[Dogstar]

Dakota1000, on 06 May 2017 - 06:37 PM, said:

Honestly

Thats the single most dishonest word in this entire dishonest diatribe.

You win a lifelong membership to Clan Crocodile Tears.

[xe N on]

From the lore I would be Steiner loyal. However, for this event I teamed up with the Clans, because the outcome was very clear from the beginning.

My experience in quickplay already and now in scouting (I hate Invasion so I don't play it) highlight that especially Clan medium mechs are superior to IS medium mechs.

The only matches I lost as Clanner in scouting was when my team brought only 2 lights and 2 mediums with the lights sweeping out and the team getting separated. All other matches, where Clans did bring reasonable 50 ton meds we crushed IS, even against 4 or 3 man premades in a complete PUG or PUG against PUG with one disconnect at our side.

IMHO, especially Clan meds are vastly superior to IS meds. Bushwakers and Griffins are good in brawl. However, pure C-SPL or mixed with C-MGs Novas are superior. The Huntsman is a very good mech too (you can run it with 6 C-SRM6 or 6 C-SSRM6 as anti-light). However, C-SPL do the real work.

Med and long range wise IS meds get even more shafted compared to Clans. Most IS med or long range weapons are quite heavy and meds don't have anough tonnage to boat much of them. Clan mechs virtually get much lighter weapons that produce more heat, but usually the better clan mechs support enough space for 2-slot heat-sinks to compensate for.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

Glad I've finally read some sense in these forums, thanks OP.

My experience from FW recently and in general.

I rarely launch into games where I win, mostly it's losses from the Clan side (now this could be chance or bad luck). Recently Past 5 games = losses and one win.

That one win was pug vs pug and we won quite comfortably (so yes this does perhaps show clans might have the advantage). So what happened in that match?!
IS folks rolled out with lrms, dribbled one by one to their deaths (I honestly couldnt believe the braveness/stupidity). Lets face it, that mentally isn't an IS/Clan issue, that's a player issue and he/she wasnt the only one doing it.

The losses I'd attribute were down to facing off against large groups. Didn't stand a chance even when having a plan. Armour got insta-vaped in one poke (couldn't believe it). Next poke is obviously insta-kill (this is while piloting heavy mechs). I've never seen my armour vanish so quick so it's a nice reality check from playing the 12vs12 pug queue too much, where you have time to pad. Even poptarting is a big no no, anyone see's you, you will lose far more than you trade. Then there's the steamlolling atlas (very well played to be fair and I honestly do love seeing), take a few and roll in and start the blitz, all the other assault/heavies will have to do is chip in and annihilate a wave easily. Again I actually love seeing the Atlas rolling in as a death ball murderer, it looks very cool but feels bad afterwards.

This post isn't supposed to defend clans or attack IS etc etc etc. It's my honest personal review so far from FW. It's why I'd love to play it but stay away, as there's no hope. I feel as soon as you drop as a pug vs a group, you might as well quit the match (but please dont do this).

What needs to be compared is pug vs pug and group vs group. Just blind reading the tug-o-owar bar won't help.


p.s. Disconnects who never reconnect (or try to) need to be assessed very carefully and warned then banned. That's 4 mechs lost for the whole match multiplied by how many people doing it !!
It's almost an instant writeoff. If someone's disconnected at the point of launch surely there should be a substitute option

p.p.s. I really need to do a group drop.

[Lupis Volk]

Dogstar, on 06 May 2017 - 11:58 PM, said:

Thats the single most dishonest word in this entire dishonest diatribe.

You win a lifelong membership to Clan Crocodile Tears.

I think Clan "House" Davion is deserving of that title, along with best infiltration with the goal of crippling IS moral.