277 replies to this topic

[jjm1]

What I like most about BattleTech is that its a large fairly well fleshed out universe that is not anime.

[Anjian]

Shenzhen, which you can call China's Silicon Valley. Apple's main distribution center is somewhere in there.






Shanghai, major financial hub

[Anjian]

jjm1, on 07 May 2017 - 11:29 PM, said:

What I like most about BattleTech is that its a large fairly well fleshed out universe that is not anime.

In terms of universe construction, Battletech shares nothing with Gundam or Macross. However, with Fang of the Sun Dougram, that series almost feels like the prototype for the Battletech universe, complete with human colonized planets and a rebellion in one of them, complete with an evil governor. One of the characters in the series even goes by the name of Von Stein. As you know, Battletech also took a few designs from that show, and the designs from that show actually defines more of the Battletech mech archetype than from any other anime. Not to mention even its style of combat.

Anime mecha universes also feature heavily European factions, almost like Japanese stereotypes of Europeans. Whats more obvious than the Zeons in Gundam but there are also quite a few others.

Dougram emphasizes military tactics over sheer anime power for winning. The way the narrative focuses on a small unit, is also similar to the way the first BT or Mechwarrior narratives focus on a small unit.

https://en.wikipedia...the_Sun_Dougram

Edited by Anjian, 07 May 2017 - 11:56 PM.

[Anjian]

Fang of the Sun Dougram leads to Armored Trooper Votoms, which again, has a similar universe construction, with federations and confederations of human colonies across the stars, settling issues with mecha. Heavy Gear is more inspired from the Armored Trooper Votoms.

https://en.wikipedia..._Trooper_Votoms


Given the context of today's anime environment, I find it hard to think they would ever make anime such as Dougram or Votoms again.

Anime has gone down the moe spiral far too deep to extract itself. The best hope for a cheesy stompy robot movie might be from Russia, which is bursting with creative talent and is discovering scifi in a big way.

Edited by Anjian, 08 May 2017 - 12:11 AM.

[Nesutizale]

xengk, on 07 May 2017 - 11:13 PM, said:

The author has started work on a Mecha inspired anime project this year.
It is still early enough to influence the script.

Looks good. I like his style. Hope he gets some good voiceactors as those are very importend to give the characters more feeling to them.
There are so many bad dubed Films/Series here that I started to watch either in english or japanese with subtitles.

Quote

Orion being kickass always bring tears to my eye.

This one is also good. Don't know if the artstyle can carrie an entrie series though and the fighting is a bit to much Mech-Fu for me.

[Zigmund Freud]

Exilyth, on 07 May 2017 - 05:12 AM, said:

Why does the opening post of this thread remind me of pokemon evolution stages so much?

Anyway, if a battletech anime series was made, it would have do away with the overabundant "generic moeblobs slice of life" style and go for a more realistic style, like Jin-Roh, Patlabor or GiTS.

Well, yes, of course there should be a beach episode, but only as a backdrop/excuse for an attack by frogmen and battle armor, coming out of the waves and opening fire.

Then again, a "game of thrones in space" style series with real actors might work better.

GoT are cool aslo because one episodes cost several million or more. And it doesn't even have giant robot fights that have to look good. Anime, or better non-{Capellan}-styled cartoon would be better for number of resons: cheaper, easier to do rediculously massive mech fights, and possibly more profits (giant stompy robot fights and animated TV shows are generally liked by the same age group. Disregard a bunch of old farts that is MWO)

[Zigmund Freud]

xengk, on 07 May 2017 - 11:13 PM, said:

The author has started work on a Mecha inspired anime project this year.
It is still early enough to influence the script.

So basically we should kidnap the japanese guy and make him draw BT serise, and in 8 years we'll have our first episode.

Anjian, on 07 May 2017 - 11:55 PM, said:

Anime has gone down the moe spiral far too deep to extract itself. The best hope for a cheesy stompy robot movie might be from Russia, which is bursting with creative talent and is discovering scifi in a big way.

Is that a battlefield 2142? Seriously, it's russian walker "Bogatir" from BF, with just a bit pointier nose.

[Red Shrike]

As neat as the tie fighter short film is, the art style leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If a mature BT 2D or 3D animation is a must, then let it be a western art style with western writing.

At this time, I cannot conjure up an example beyond what has already been mentioned.

[Nesutizale]

@Zigmund Freud
Paul Johnson dosn't sound very {Capellan} to me.
Also the style he uses isn't directly Anime but 80' style US with a bit of Anime influance I would say.

Edited by Nesutizale, 08 May 2017 - 02:08 AM.

[Koniving]

Leone, on 07 May 2017 - 10:53 PM, said:

Because the Japanese language did not use the written word till it was imported from China. Seriously, there are all four different alphabets showcased.


Seriously? That's like telling Koniving he doesn't get to weigh in on a lore or table top mechanics discussion because he didn't write the books.

I mean, go ahead and argue all you want, but atleast have the decency to come up with an actual arguement.

~Leone.

Actually I came to realize that I was focused on the text on the far left, square sign. The vertical sign above it is most definitely Japanese. That complex one on the left though is definitely not Kanji. So perhaps Katakana? It's definitely a more complex Japanese if it isn't Chinese, those four characters probably represent an entire sentence.

[Ryllen Kriel]

I have an idea, let Harmony Gold handle the license and just see what happens to the lore. We'll get a really weird Battletech universe reverse mutation of the Macross/Robotech scenario. Hahaha!

[Koniving]

RaptorRage, on 07 May 2017 - 09:44 PM, said:

Could use a MechWarrior game that portrays BattleMech movement and combat based on the source artwork and lore for a change instead of continuing to stick to the stiff and safe giant walking tank meme that all the games have used. In that sense it would probably be more of an anime style of combat with regard to portraying human like movement with the Mechs controlled by myomers and neurohelmets that hasn't really been properly represented in any title to date. Not to mention integrating melee combat that is a prominent feature of the series that is often derided because of its anime mecha roots. Also having the pilot actually be a meaningful part of the Mech's control and performance like they are usually shown in mecha anime since pilots are supposed to be personally affected by things like heat buildup in the Mech, which is why they have cooling vests, and take neural feedback damage as well from ammo explosions and such.

I agree. Most of the 'stiff'ness comes from the first Mechwarrior game and the Battletech cartoon.
The Mechwarrior game (1 and 2) were severely limited by technology at the time.
The cartoon, in truth, was limited severely by a tiny budget and extremely new computer animation technology (which undoubtedly since my computer years later was a Pentium 1 with 16 megabytes of RAM, god only knows what they were using 3 years prior, since windows 95 wasn't out yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqzEssjkMeU'
Skip to 2 minutes in. Of course in the second episode you will see a jumpjetting Centurion. It evidently is supposed to be a jumpjetting Centurion by the 'kill shot' to the VTOL craft is supposed to be an AC not a laser according to the Sommerset striker compendium.

The lore bases itself on Real Robot genre anime of the time, such as VOTOMS Armored Trooper, Patlabor, Dougram (loosely), 08th MS team, non-gundam mechs in Gundam, Macross/Robotech (where LAMs came from), and the anime that the Scorpion came from for how Quads move.

LAM example chosen from a far newer, somewhat more realistic moment than the original inspirations. Sadly CG has brought a lot of "flash" to Macross which really cuts back on the realism most of the time in order to pull some "amazing" visuals.

Scorpions evidently came from Dougram, as did the Shadowhawk and the Thunderbolt. Notice the strafing movement Quads are known for? And the immense speed the Scorpion is known for?

Macross/Robotech is also where the basic cockpit design including throttle and flight stick, came from.
Other cockpit styles mentioned in lore are borrowed from Gundam G Fighter, Patlabor (there's a specific reference in the techmanual about gloves to be more articulated with mech hands; something that is frequently done by Noa Izumi whom practices "Cat's Craddle" by placing yawn on her Labor's fingers and trying to manipulate the yarn-puzzle from within the cockpit, thus increasing her fine piloting skills [there's a plethora of things she does including a custom program, another thing also done in Votoms to give the hero an improved chance against the Perfect Soldier [Clan genetics program inspiration btw] ] that's coming after him. This custom program thing is also frequently mentioned in Battletech as something that pilots do to try and get an edge by tailoring their mech DI computer to better suit their individual styles, whether it is customizing messages the machine gives for status reports, modifying the interface for their tastes or simply their language, or going all out to incorporate dance moves into their default dodging routines automatically handled by the DI computer.)

Clans are a combination of the VOTOMS perfect soldier program (as is the field repair/customization rules also from VOTOMS), and Star Trek's Klingons (I honestly think the two inspired each other, considering the drastic changes that Klingons made in the 80s versus the 70s.)

Edited by Koniving, 08 May 2017 - 02:58 AM.

[xengk]

Koniving, on 08 May 2017 - 02:08 AM, said:

Actually I came to realize that I was focused on the text on the far left, square sign. The vertical sign above it is most definitely Japanese. That complex one on the left though is definitely not Kanji. So perhaps Katakana? It's definitely a more complex Japanese if it isn't Chinese, those four characters probably represent an entire sentence.

Both the far left square and rectangle sign are displaying Kanji.
Kanji look a lot like Traditional Chinese.

Rectangle LED = group discount
Yellow square = "red light" info center
Yellow flag with ! = beware of pimps

[MeiSooHaityu]

I wouldn't be against an anime movie or series for Battletech. I think that would be ok. It would use the current mech designs laid out by Catalyst Game Labs (maybe even PGI's designs), but don't expect those older designs to be used.

In an ideal world, I would love to see a live action Game of Thrones-esque treatment of the Battletech universe, but if an anime of BT was good (with a nice gritty feel to it), I could enjoy that as well.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Oh, and as for the OP's title...

Battletech is stronger now than it has been in years. With Catalyst Game breathing more life into the table top, and PGI and HBS's efforts bringing the franchise back into the PC gaming scene, Battletech is healthier and thriving more than it has in years. Say what you want about PGI and MWO's quality, but realize that without their effort, we wouldn't be seeing a resurgence in the PC gaming scene like we are today.

It has a long way to go, and is still not anywhere near it's peak (maybe late 90's early 00's), but it is making a come back without an anime or anime influence.

You just can't keep a good franchise down

[Karl Streiger]

Koniving, on 08 May 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

I agree. Most of the 'stiff'ness comes from the first Mechwarrior game and the Battletech cartoon.

Of course the "walking tank" trades the effect on moral he might have with the disadvantage to be the biggest target on the field.
So the mobility need to be much better - atlas should not behave like the ATAT but more like the Wanzers from front mission (minus the skidding)

[C E Dwyer]

No just no.

There is so much that is bad now in early anime, that I'm sure the creators cringe inside when it gets asked about, for the time it was acceptable, but not now.

Later anime may have a place, but not the social dinosaur of the early series.

Battle tech cartoon is just as bad, though part of that's problems is the sweeping opinions at the time of cartoons are for kids right !

It also suffers from being made on the cheap.

An animated series might be the way, but to 'get it out there' in any meaningful way, that won't make the franchise look a joke, is money and large amounts, and there just isn't anyone around with the kind of money need that is willing or able to spend it.

Personally when I'm gone I'd rather my Grand children find my stuff in the attic and then go I wonder what this is. Ask my daughter about it and maybe if it sparks interest in the right people it will be revisited twenty five, fifty years from now, rather than a desperate half baked idea that makes the franchise look a joke, played by a small number of fantnatics

[C E Dwyer]

Scout Derek, on 07 May 2017 - 05:41 PM, said:

Some people say no.....

But I say yes, to something that can be animated well that is. This is why:



I don't think I've ever really looked to find the animator to this. we should find them, and perhaps get him to start a paetron since PLEXI dipped out on the short animations awhile back >:-(

This is I think the only thing I've seen that can convince me, it can be done well. I was not impressed by the mech animation, but the intensity, or how it was presented and the emotions shown in the faces of the people, made a big impact

[Koniving]

There's like 80% of the posts that are like "OH GOD NO NOT ANIME" or "DONT MAKE CARTOON"

.....and the original post has nothing to do with making a cartoon or a style of movement.

The original post is saying "Battletech's mechs look like **** because this."

Looks like ****...

when compared to this.


Even though both are of the Exact Same Thing.

He's talking about the Mech art for the Battletech board game.
Not MWO, not Mechwarrior, not Battletech PC game by harebrained but Battletech the board game's art style.

Because this...




Looks like ****.

Edited by Koniving, 08 May 2017 - 05:32 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

No thanks.

If I want to watch anime, I'll go watch Robotech or Gundam. One of the very positive things I like about MWO has been PGI's artwork. Battletech/MechWarrior can stand on it's own as a gritty realistic Western war genre, we don't need to copy Anime style.....