64 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 14 May 2017 - 06:45 PM, said:

I personally think the issue with lights is they still dont have a crucial role to play in the game. Theyre forced into a combat role which most of them arnt that good at.

Rather than rescaling lights I think a better focus would be giving lights a more crucial role when it comes to scouting/spotting, electronic warfare, and general support of the heavier mechs on their team. If lights have other important things to do besides combat then the scaling issues dont matter as much.

Unfortunately, unless PGI restructures the reward system, lights will still be the unwanted red-headed stepchildren of MWO.

[Y E O N N E]

A restructured rewards system wouldn't fix anything if doing what is required to get those rewards isn't, on its own, fun and engaging.

[Alex Morgaine]

Next April fools, reverse the scaling. 150+kph atlas sized locust :3

[The6thMessenger]

Requiemking, on 14 May 2017 - 07:47 PM, said:

Bishop, let me ask you a question. Do you really think it is ok for a 35 ton humanoid Light mech, such as the Wolfhound, to be so large that it looks like a somewhat emaciated 65 ton Heavy?

Considering same skill level? or the Wolfhound pilot has better skill level? What about build?

[Khobai]

Quote

Bishop, let me ask you a question. Do you really think it is ok for a 35 ton humanoid Light mech, such as the Wolfhound, to be so large that it looks like a somewhat emaciated 65 ton Heavy?

to be fair its nowhere near the size of a 65 tonner. its closer to a 45-50 tonner.

a large part of the problem is people exaggerating

[Bishop Steiner]

Requiemking, on 14 May 2017 - 07:47 PM, said:

Bishop, let me ask you a question. Do you really think it is ok for a 35 ton humanoid Light mech, such as the Wolfhound, to be so large that it looks like a somewhat emaciated 65 ton Heavy?

yes, actually.

Short and stout, tall and thin, mechs come in all shapes and sizes. So if to have the proper "skinny" profile of a design means its tall... then yes. It certainly shouldn't be super skinny and the height of another mech twice as wide.

[Requiemking]

The6thMessenger, on 14 May 2017 - 07:52 PM, said:

Considering same skill level? or the Wolfhound pilot has better skill level? What about build?

Oh no, none of that now. I am asking him if he was truly ok with any and all 30-35 ton humanoid Lights being this size of a slightly underfed 65 tonner.

[CK16]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

yes, actually.

Short and stout, tall and thin, mechs come in all shapes and sizes. So if to have the proper "skinny" profile of a design means its tall... then yes. It certainly shouldn't be super skinny and the height of another mech twice as wide.

Yup guess it's to much to ask for people to understand simple Geometry and Physics these days.

[Requiemking]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

yes, actually.

Short and stout, tall and thin, mechs come in all shapes and sizes. So if to have the proper "skinny" profile of a design means its tall... then yes. It certainly shouldn't be super skinny and the height of another mech twice as wide.

Then let me ask you in another way. Are you ok with the Piranha being the size of an emaciated Centurion?

[CK16]

God an M60 and. Bradley are "bigger" than an Abrams they must weight more!

[Tripzter]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2017 - 07:33 PM, said:

well, shoot em in the legs and you avoid that issue.

Doesnt solve the problem that lights are getting hit with 30pt alpha and not registering damage.

[Andi Nagasia]

Requiemking, on 14 May 2017 - 07:47 PM, said:

Bishop, let me ask you a question. Do you really think it is ok for a 35 ton humanoid Light mech, such as the Wolfhound, to be so large that it looks like a somewhat emaciated 65 ton Heavy?

let me just give my perspective,
is it ok for a mech to look the size of a larger mech?
from a certain angle, yes,

you may have a Standard sheet of paper(11x8) look like its bigger than your Standard Pencil(7.5),
but the Pencil has more Volume even though the Paper looks like it takes up more space,

[Bishop Steiner]

Requiemking, on 14 May 2017 - 07:55 PM, said:

Then let me ask you in another way. Are you ok with the Piranha being the size of an emaciated Centurion?

if that is the correct size, volumetrically, to happen? Then yes. But it would likely actually be closer to an emaciated Firestarter. But hey, exaggeration is good, I guess? If it were Centurion tall, it would basically just be a hatrack.

[Khobai]

the problem is certain dimensions are worse than others

height is the worst dimension because it makes you easier to hit from the front and sides

so the fact the wolfhound is tall is still worse than another light thats say wider or has more depth.

theres definitely a problem with the wolfhound, we just seem to disagree on the extent of the problem. I personally dont think its that big of a deal. nothing quirks cant fix.

the bigger problem for me is that lights in general have no role in the game. id rather see a major issue like that get fixed than worry about the wolfhound being a little too tall. if the wolfhound had an actual role that would make it a better mech than if it was a bit shorter.

Edited by Khobai, 14 May 2017 - 08:08 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 14 May 2017 - 08:04 PM, said:

the problem is certain dimensions are worse than others

height is the worst dimension because it makes you easier to hit from the front and sides

so the fact the wolfhound is tall is still worse than another light thats say wider or has more depth.

theres definitely a problem with the wolfhound, we just seem to disagree on the extent of the problem. I personally dont think its that big of a deal. nothing quirks cant fix.

the bigger problem for me is that lights in general have no role in the game. id rather see a major issue like that get fixed than worry about the wolfhound being a little too tall. if the wolfhound had an actual role that would make it a better mech than if it was a bit shorter.

actually, width is usually more an issue than height. And if you get flanked, then depth is a big issue, at least for IS XL use.... a Hussar would not do well in a scrum. Height is, aside from being spotted, usually not that big a deal, which is why pre rescale the very tall Shadowhawk was still very durable.

[Requiemking]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

if that is the correct size, volumetrically, to happen? Then yes. But it would likely actually be closer to an emaciated Firestarter. But hey, exaggeration is good, I guess? If it were Centurion tall, it would basically just be a hatrack.

And if I said that Volumetric scaling is, without a doubt, the worst thing to happen to MWO, how would you react? How would you counter if I said that Scaling should be based on surface area, because Volumetric scaling unfairly nerfs humanoids and makes Chicken walkers the defacto king of mech designs, outside of a few edge cases.

[Bishop Steiner]

Requiemking, on 14 May 2017 - 10:20 PM, said:

And if I said that Volumetric scaling is, without a doubt, the worst thing to happen to MWO, how would you react? How would you counter if I said that Scaling should be based on surface area, because Volumetric scaling unfairly nerfs humanoids and makes Chicken walkers the defacto king of mech designs, outside of a few edge cases.

I'd react how you would expect. By laughing.

Since you know...most of the meta designs in use are humanoids. ACH. HBK-IIC, Huntsman. Griffin. Warhammer. Grasshopper. Kodiak, off the top of my head. Since the actual "meta" machines are few and fa between to begin with, I'd say pretty well represented, actually.

But I know you wont that stop you.

Very edge, there.

[Dogstar]

Wil McCullough, on 14 May 2017 - 05:42 PM, said:

Ive been playing my ach exclusively the last season. Show everyone on the paper doll where i touched you.

Well, basically everywhere, you filthy tubespawn

Also, the ACH and the LCT were the only two mechs that WEREN'T subjected to a resize, so it's bizarre that they're somehow now better than almost all other lights as they must have been the 'right' size before...

Edited by Dogstar, 14 May 2017 - 10:52 PM.

[Requiemking]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2017 - 10:48 PM, said:

I'd react how you would expect. By laughing.

Since you know...most of the meta designs in use are humanoids. ACH. HBK-IIC, Huntsman. Griffin. Warhammer. Grasshopper. Kodiak, off the top of my head. Since the actual "meta" machines are few and fa between to begin with, I'd say pretty well represented, actually.

But I know you wont that stop you.

Very edge, there.

Well, lets look then shall we?

1)ACH: There is no way around it. Clan Lights, with the exception of the Cheetah, are pretty much bad by design, whether it be by being under engined, overburdened by hard-locked equipment, or being simply too large.

2) HBK IIC/ Huntsman: Everything one could do with these mechs can be done equally well by a Storm Crow or a Nova.

3) Warhammer/Grasshopper: Well, considering that the Marauder has far better frontal hitboxes than either of these two, has similar quirks, and requires less torso movement to spread damage......

4) Kodiak: Again, the Kodiak is one of two exceptions in a weightclass where most(if not all) Clan entries seem to be bad by design. Similar to Lights, Clan Assaults suffer from being under engined, overburdened by hardlocked equipment, being too large, being overengined, or some combination of the above.

[adamts01]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 May 2017 - 07:59 PM, said:

let me just give my perspective,
is it ok for a mech to look the size of a larger mech?
from a certain angle, yes,

you may have a Standard sheet of paper(11x8) look like its bigger than your Standard Pencil(7.5),
but the Pencil has more Volume even though the Paper looks like it takes up more space,

So the pencil gets 3x the hit points in a fps, and they wonder why no one plays as paper.... Game play was incredibly linear before the nerf, then when the fast, small, agile class was removed the game just became unbearable. One of the biggest things holding this game back is the lack of meaningful roles, and ruining lights was a step in the wrong direction. I'm sure I'm not the only player who left after that change, there was no need to further gimp the weakest class.