953 replies to this topic

[Aramuside]

tee5, on 16 May 2017 - 12:56 AM, said:

C-Bills MC SP GSP HSP XP GXP HXP You weren't able to find an more complicated way to implement the skill tree?

They had a simpler system and then people started complaining... you essentially need a lot of "currencies" for all the edge cases to provide a reasonably fair way to transfer things and not have us up in arms over the refunds.

On the good side - new players won't have some of those.

invernomuto, on 16 May 2017 - 01:31 AM, said:

The devs stated that on june patch they will balance energy weapons.
IMHO they will nerf clan energy weapons. Clan ballistic weapons and LRMs are already sub par respect to IS counterparts.
I do not understand why they wait a month for that, making IS pilots unhappy, but - at least - the plan is to:
1) make a general nerf because there is too much powercreep;
2) focus on IS vs clan balance with modifications on base tech and not relying too much on quirks.
At least there seems to be a plan by the devs for the future, I'll give them a couple of months before saying that is all wrong...

Well the general rule is not to bring in multiple new systems at once.

[Gannycus]

Quote

The following ‘Mech Mobility Attributes are no longer directly determined by your Engine:

• Acceleration
• Deceleration
• Turn Rate
• Torso Twist Speed
• Arm Speed

Question to PGI:
When you lose a side torso with a Clan XL or future IS Fusion Engine equipped, did you still lose 20% of Acceleration, Decelaration. Turn Rate, Torso Twist Speed and Arm Speed abilities?

Edited by Gannycus, 16 May 2017 - 03:50 AM.

[Marius Romanis]

ZortPointNarf, on 16 May 2017 - 03:42 AM, said:

Just top of my head, the reduction in numbers of Kodiaks, (although this is due to engine desyncing).
With the higher heat, the 5P is gonna have a hard time cooling down, and they would have to spend skills on jump jets if they want to keep poptarting.

5H is the heat reduction poptart losing its heat reduction, 5P is the 5 er large tanky one losing its range.

Daemon04, on 16 May 2017 - 03:45 AM, said:

Another really important question:

On my clan-account Ive got lots of mechs being just basic'ed because i only own one variant of em and they have racked up good amounts of xp. excessive xp on lots of my IS-mechs, too actually.

what is going to happen to these extra xps? example: my viper-c variant. basiced and has extra of 95,536 points available.
if it was mastered. 95.536 - 43000 = 52.536 left over.

there is no note of that in the patch notes or did i miss something?

You missed something, Its called HXP, they keep all xp, you will just need to add cbills to the HXP to turn it into SP. (if you have clan lights or IS lights/mediums that you play with 2 variants but havent bought a 3rd its worth buying a 3rd and burning GXP to max them out in skill chart including the mastered extra module (HSP for mastering mechs is worth 4.1 mill cbills + saves some xp costs pre patch to post patch), better hurry you've got 5 hours !





Oh and thankyou pgi for pressuring me into spending 2 hours of my time video recording what I have and notepad calculating my refund ledger for what I can safely return for half value because you couldn't answer a simple question about how your game stores "modules owned" data that some of us have been asking for over a month. You should have added a GSP to Cbills - xp conversion button with no mc charges. Going to have 3.1 years of GSP on my Clan account, cbf working out IS account.

Edited by CadoAzazel, 16 May 2017 - 04:05 AM.

[Aramuside]

Bud Crue, on 16 May 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

"Try the Quickdraw?! Try a Dragon!!?"

The 4G and 4H have been rendered into bricks by this. 60% and 40% agility gone in exchange for what? Higher hard points? No? Better hit boxes? No. Oh! they fixed the CT missile tubes! That will make them kick a$$ in exchange for immobility! These people do not play their own game and it shows.

Well effectively they've just moved the quirks from visible up front to the chassis - the engine is a totally different matter of course. The mechs I tried on PTS generally retained their mobility (once I had skilled them up to roughly normal levels) where they were supposed to be agile. Problem is I only tested lights, mediums and assaults - so no idea if they fall into that category. Assaults turned very slowly in the case of the DWF and AS7.

[Aramuside]

Kotev, on 16 May 2017 - 03:09 AM, said:

I like these new changes, just dont understand all those people complaining about IS mechs get nerfed or maybe is oposite like they cant shoot anymore 5-6 er l lasers alpha from 1000 meters away doing great dmg and disaper ������ Be honest folks with all those quirks some IS mechs are way better then Clan.

Such as (with builds so we can compare them to other mechs)?

[stocky0904]

For me right now its an overly complicated very time consuming (I have to master 250 Mechs, 15 min each -> 62.5 hrs) road to disaster for this game.

I hope for the best but expecting the worst.

But thats just my opinion...

[Aramuside]

Meldric Ward, on 16 May 2017 - 03:18 AM, said:

This is completly useless. There was nothing wrong with the old system other than that you could never find any of the modules.

But why this extremly complicated system where you need to have 7263 pages of patchnotes to explain your calculations up and down? Why have 4 (?) different kinds of currencies to handle back and forward conversions all the way? Just to hide the real cost for the player as much as possible? Why waste money on solving problems that have not been problems? Why not fix CW for once? Or find a connection to BattleTech in your so-called "Events" (like "Tukayyid") that do not have anything in common with BattleTech but the name?

Why do even the few minutes it took to write this feel like a complete waste of time?
I am not sure, but I sure know that there are alternatives.

I'm afraid your clan creche needs some improvement is you mistake 7,263 for the actual number.

Was it long - sure. It was also about the length of the last two sets which you would have known if you'd read them. I am slightly amused you don't want PGI to document the changes fully though

[Meldric Ward]

How do you know I did not read them? Pathetic really. I want PGI to document ANY reasonable (!) change in all epic lengthyness. I just do not think this is usefull or that it does help with ANY of the real problems...
Very simple.

[Daemon04]

CadoAzazel, on 16 May 2017 - 03:58 AM, said:

You missed something, Its called HXP, they keep all xp, you will just need to add cbills to the HXP to turn it into SP. (if you have clan lights or IS lights/mediums that you play with 2 variants but havent bought a 3rd its worth buying a 3rd and burning GXP to max them out in skill chart including the mastered extra module (HSP for mastering mechs is worth 4.1 mill cbills + saves some xp costs pre patch to post patch), better hurry you've got 5 hours !

Thx for the fast answer. with the new xp and sp variants (hxp,xp,sp,hsp,gsp) being introduced it seems i got lost for a second.
spent all my gxp on mechs that i could master up already. both accounts are kinda "ready" for the patch.

Edited by Daemon04, 16 May 2017 - 04:18 AM.

[jss78]

I am very happy to see this land. IMO there's no doubt that it's an improvement on the previous skill "tree"

I'm especially happy that -- the best I can tell -- the skill tree is used as a vehicle to address some long-term issues in the game. Mainly some of the InfoWar mechanics are incorporated in the skill tree, and also JJ's are finally buffed.

Also it's GREAT that engine size no longer affects agility. However, while you're doing this, I'd also seriously consider giving first 10 DHS equal effectiveness, whether in-engine or not. This'd mainly help many lights and slower mediums -- a blanket buff to these would IMO be harmless and probably improve balance.

Edited by jss78, 16 May 2017 - 04:22 AM.

[Excalibaard]

Please for the love of this game listen to the non-toxic part of your community.

Don't introduce 2 things that radically change mech performance at once. Now the mobility quirks are removed in favor of a general skill system, and mobility from large engines has been removed in general, that's a double nerf that a reduced integration into the mech weights will not fix, especially for mechs which are supposed to be more mobile (f.e. Victor vs Awesome).

Then the skill maze. I understand that you want to make it difficult to get everything good at once, but there have been LOADS of ideas, linear and non-linear, that would've achieved the same 'big investment for everything of a stat, small investment for additional similar stats' idea.

Spoiler

Take for example an idea where you need to hit thresholds of points spent in the tree before you can get a certain skill, or a certain level of a skill with simple [+] and [-] button which tells you how much points you still need to spend in the tree before you can get the next level.

This achieves EXACTLY the same thing you've made now, general skills leading to specialized skills with bonuses along the way resulting in less wasted skill points. But, contrary to the current system, you can actually make it into an easily understandable UI element instead of something where I deliberately have to describe it as the skill MAZE.

Other ideas include: cumulative cost per stat (ME2), basic stat investments with side-chains (Grim Dawn), separating the (likely popular) firepower tree from the rest or removing it altogether (why would the same weapons behave differently?), grouping similar skill nodes with quick shortcuts (PoE), the list goes on and on.

91 points of trying to find stats, distributed all over the trees, that's not user-friendly, for both people who have 250 mechs and new players.

Every time I come back to this game it's just disappointment. It's a good game, but it could've been so much greater if you made better design decisions that don't alienate potential players with unnecessary complexity. For most people, the mechlab and separate torso/leg movement is complex enough. I'm just here to shoot parts off robots and for battletech lore mechs, man.

Edited by Excalibaard, 16 May 2017 - 08:24 AM.

[ZortPointNarf]

stocky0904, on 16 May 2017 - 04:07 AM, said:

For me right now its an overly complicated very time consuming (I have to master 250 Mechs, 15 min each -> 62.5 hrs) road to disaster for this game.

I hope for the best but expecting the worst.

But thats just my opinion...

My suggestion would be to just leave them parked till you actually intend to take em out for a spin. The squirrel sense tells me that they might add bether node selecting in a future release. In addition, I view it as a bit of, let me get to know this old hulk anew.

[CK16]

Seems pants on head idiocy is not lost....

Bye to all the people quiting cause cant fathom change, can I have your stuff?

Edited by CK16, 16 May 2017 - 04:24 AM.

[Meldric Ward]

I personally do not mind change at all. But this all is like putting a new car stereo in a car that would need some tires to actually start moving.

[TKSax]

jss78, on 16 May 2017 - 04:18 AM, said:

and also JJ's are finally buffed.
.

I tried them on the pts filled out the jj tree on mechs that were poor jump jet mechs did not noticed a huge difference mechs that were already good jump snipers (night gyr, hbr-iic) will jump fine even without the skill tree for jump jets maxed out and maxing the jump jets tree really was not that much of an effect. So no JJ are not getting much of a buff.

[Kurbeks]

All those IS puggies gona get creamed so hard. Lucky for players with Clan mechs.

[TKSax]

Hmm some of the quirk changes to the IS mechs are head scratching. Nerfing most of the IS offensive quirks and nerfing mobility in bad clan mechs really just increases the gaps between the haves and have nots. The top performing mechs that do not have quirks and will now be able to get skills to improve them even more. Faction play is going to tilt even more towards the clans. I am not sure changing quirks to balance mechs is going to be able to wait for once a month patches. I fear this patch could be the NPE or mwo.

Edited by TKSax, 16 May 2017 - 04:38 AM.

[Bigbacon]

after reading about all 100 skill trees. I feel it is best I just sit it out for a few months until there is some kind of default setup per mech pretty much other wise I'll be specing mechs completely wrong. Someone better make an interactive skill tree builder website

Love the ECM nerf unless you unlock it. Why not do the same with BAP?

And my poor myst lynx troll build with 2 NARCs will no longer get extended NARCs unless I unlock it

Edited by Bigbacon, 16 May 2017 - 04:40 AM.

[pyrocomp]

Excalibaard, on 16 May 2017 - 04:20 AM, said:

Please for the love of this game listen to the non-toxic part of your community.

Don't introduce 2 things that radically change mech performance at once. Now the mobility quirks are removed in favor of a general skill system, and mobility from large engines has been removed in general, RIP dragons, quickdraws and all mechs that are mobile according to lore and use mobility as their main trait. A victor is now an awesome. Mech identity is down the drain, you just pick the profile with the highest hardpoints.
Why not AT LEAST introduce baseline changes per mech to mitigate this double nerf to already underperforming mechs, just like each has their own torso twist range and arm movements?

Actually, that very same thing is written in the `Mobility' section of patch notes:

Quote

Rather than being dictated by Engine size, the above Mobility attributes will instead be integrated as baseline attributes on an individual variant basis. These attributes have been primarily distributed based on tonnage values, and at a top-down level you can expect Mobility to now be roughly equal across tonnage lines.

So, roughly equal does not mean equal and some Mechs will have better twist. On the other hand, knowning the historical disregard to the lore... Chek it when the patch goes live and then advocate for mobility archetype (I'm sure, something like than is there to `streamline the process') change on certain Mechs.

[BMKA]

heres my thoughts :
-pros
1.I will able to give love to my favorites mechs(crabs,wolves,wolverine(L) )
2.Some strong quirks will remain
3.Unpredictable builds(depends on the mech)
4.urbie OP (?)
5.MWO is a RPG (?)
6.(coming)
-Cons
1.potatoes is real because we lost our comfortable zone and some players cant deal with it.( this mean some mechwarriors might leave, I hope not)
2.Very poor comparation/balance between Skill trees (5% CD new skill tree vs 17% CD old skill tree/10% cool run new skill tree vs 20% old skill tree and so on)
3.(coming)

Im gonna read this patch again, read some replies and cool my mind.
This skill tree is a good idea, but still need some re-work.