953 replies to this topic

[PirateLincoln]

Is the quirks document linked here accurate? The Hunchback, Enforcer, Crab, and Trebuchet are now all going to have identical movement profiles? Either that's wrong, or I'm failing to grasp a fundamental concept of the changes (very possible).

[justcallme A S H]

Prosperity Park, on 15 May 2017 - 10:11 PM, said:

Clans are not getting "more quirks." The new skill tree gives you the chance to invest in firepower, yes, but you have to sacrifice agility and heat reduction skills from the old tree to get there, anf there are no modules to boost weapons or sensors. Every mech in the game gets access to the same skill tree.

What we need is a balance of base tech instead of relying on quirks.

PGI is claiming to want to balance base tech. Of course as par for the course they do half the job first (nerf IS) and then rebalance after. However, once the civil war tech drops and they finally begin to assess interfaction tech they might finally do what should have been done when clan wave 1 dropped:. Nerf Clans, use fewer quirks for IS.

1. Yes, they are. Go read the patch notes. Clan mechs are getting quirks they did not have before. Heat gen & duration. Previously did not exist in clan space save for set of 8 quirks, which, still remain.

2. A EBJ/HBR under this new system becomes more agil than say a WHM. Therefore the EBJ/HBR do not even need to invest in agility. So how is a Clan mech sacrificing agility when they are gaining it?

3. There is no balance of tech in this patch. So what do we do then? Just, wait, hope?

I get what PGI are doing but you cannot break your game and leave it for months while you "get there". That is what is happening here.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 15 May 2017 - 10:44 PM.

[Marius Romanis]

Ok so the patch is a little over 10 hours away and they still wont give us the INFO REQUIRED to be able to sell back our modules at 50% return safely.... im off to sleep in under 6 hours .... good work pgi, good work.....

[brroleg]

Well, this is definitely step in right direction. I completely stopped playing MWO cause lack of something new happening in it. This new skill tree will bring me back into the game for some time while i will be fidelling with it i will be entertained for some time, dont know for how long, maybe a day or month.. but then new tech will come out, and i again will be entertained with new stuff. I think PGI actually understood the way they need to move.

Edited by brroleg, 15 May 2017 - 10:47 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

CadoAzazel, on 15 May 2017 - 10:44 PM, said:

Ok so the patch is a little over 10 hours away and they still wont give us the INFO REQUIRED to be able to sell back our modules at 50% return safely.... im off to sleep in under 6 hours .... good work pgi, good work.....

They are all asleep man. So, you don't heard anything.

I know which modules I purchased last year and on what mechs.
So going to sell them tonight - Given I don't need 200+ mechs worth of GSP when I have 108 after 2 years...

Edited by justcallme A S H, 15 May 2017 - 10:47 PM.

[Arkhangel]

Hobbles v, on 15 May 2017 - 09:17 PM, said:

Rip IS

The ebons and hellbringers are now more agile than warhammers. Agility was one of the two things keeping the IS in contention in FP. The other being low durations/single slug ac fire.

of course those mechs are both more agile than warhammers. they weigh less. try using a lighter IS heavy, like the Roughneck, Dragon, Quickdraw, so on. new skill tree'll let you make them fair more durable than they've ever been.

fact is, Engine Desync is really mostly meant to de-incentivize using the top end of a weight class, and incentivize using the smaller, more agile mechs in it. Mechs like the Victor, Awesome, Gargoyle, etc, get ignored simply for the fact they can't have the firepower their bigger cousins have, or the durability. giving them the edge in agility'll give them much more usability.

I mean, look at what's most often seen with IS drops. other than Locusts and the occasional ECM Commando, you'll hardly ever see a Light that isn't in the top of the bracket. for IS mediums, good luck seeing anything under 50 tons unless it's the occasional scout Cicada. Same with heavies apart from the occasional Catapult, and the Roughneck simply because it's new and has some decent hardpoints.

honestly, every weight bracket, roughly 70% of the time, is going to be full of whatever mechs top that bracket out, 35 tonners, 55 tonners, 75 tonners, and 100 tonners, and the only outliers will be the mechs people deem "useful" because the hardpoints are easier to use, even though a lot of those other mechs are perfectly viable if people actually took the time to get used to piloting them.

Edited by Arkhangel, 15 May 2017 - 10:55 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

They need to be more agile though because of the key point you are missing - IS XL. You gotta have agility to be able to twist and counter the horrid mechanic that is a torso loss.

Without it IS mechs (which the vast majority require XL) are now dead in the water if Clans are more agile, particularly a EBJ - One of the best avail tonnage mechs in the game.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 15 May 2017 - 10:51 PM.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

Dear PGI, please keep the play test environment open.

Seeing that you have still failed to have a "mech lab simulator" environment like the MW games from 20 years ago, it means we're going to have to waste lots of time, effort and points to mess about.

I want to play test mechs to see if the tree's are even beneficial to it e.g. agility quirks are helpful or not or if the mech needs extra cooling help etc.

Thanks !

[Marius Romanis]

justcallme A S H, on 15 May 2017 - 10:46 PM, said:

They are all asleep man. So, you don't heard anything.
I know which modules I purchased last year and on what mechs.
So going to sell them tonight - Given I don't need 200+ mechs worth of GSP when I have 108 after 2 years...

Except if you bought ANY more of that module after dec 3rd you wont make cbills, you will lose cbills. in a 1 for 1 sell rate of b4 and after dec 3rd.

[Kmieciu]

InnerSphereNews, on 15 May 2017 - 06:39 PM, said:

Many ‘Mechs previously balanced around superior Mobility Quirks have instead seen those Quirks integrated into the inherent Mobility attributes of the 'Mech. Those inherent Mobility attributes have then been evaluated and adjusted against similar 'Mechs within their tonnage bracket.

Many, but not all.
Vindicator, the biggest underdog in the game had up to +90% accel/decel and +50% turn/torso turn rate.
According to quirk sheets, all Vindicators will get the same mobility attributes as a Stormcrow!
BUT! Stormcrow is 15 kph faster therefore it will be even more agile.

This is the epitome of PGI balancing:
55 ton Clan omnimech that is capable of 5xMissile or 13xEnergy builds vs a 45 ton IS Battlemech stuck with 3 Ballistic 2 Energy (1 in the head) and 1 missile. And the latter is less agile.
But wait, there's more! Let's reduce the PPC velocity quirk by 30% because skill tree (you could buy 10% back with C-bills and XP). Not to mention the Stormcrow can enjoy +10% ERPPC velocity as well.

InnerSphereNews, on 15 May 2017 - 06:39 PM, said:

We want to assure everyone that balance remains a core focus of the design team, and we will be working heavily to monitor and improve it after the release of the Skill Tree in May, the release of new tech in July, and on into the future.

How are you going to monitor the performance of the Vindicator chassis if no one in their right mind should ever field that POS ?

Edited by Kmieciu, 15 May 2017 - 11:20 PM.

[XX BURT XX]

brroleg, on 15 May 2017 - 10:46 PM, said:

Well, this is definitely step in right direction. I completely stopped playing MWO cause lack of something new happening in it.

Funny statement. I wonder why Gretzky did not quit ice hockey cause there certainly is nothing new happening in it

[justcallme A S H]

CadoAzazel, on 15 May 2017 - 11:01 PM, said:

Except if you bought ANY more of that module after dec 3rd you wont make cbills, you will lose cbills. in a 1 for 1 sell rate of b4 and after dec 3rd.

It says purchase date. Given people buy more than one of a type of module - It logically can't be anything else?

[Dudicus Rex]

With all of the 'Mechs that will need to be trained, we need a "Trainable" button, similar to the "Favorites" button, to filter the 'Mechs that don't have all 91 skill nodes active.

[Duke Nedo]

Kmieciu, on 15 May 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

Many, but not all.
Vindicator, the biggest underdog in the game had up to +90% accel/decel and +50% turn/torso turn rate.
According to quirk sheets, all Vindicators will get the same mobility attributes as a Stormcrow!
BUT! Stormcrow is 15 kph faster therefore it will be even more agile.

This is the epitome of PGI balancing:
55 ton Clan omnimech that is capable of 5xMissile or 13xEnergy builds vs a 45 ton IS Battlemech stuck with 3 Ballistic 2 Energy (1 in the head) and 1 missile. And the latter is less agile.
But wait, there's more! Let's reduce the PPC velocity quirk by 30% because skill tree (you could buy 10% back with C-bills and XP). Not to mention the Stormcrow can enjoy +10% ERPPC velocity as well.


How are you going to monitor the performance of the Vindicator chassis if no one in their right mind should ever field that POS ?

Word!

I read through the quirk nerfs again and they are nothing short of full ******. PGI must be really really afraid of stacking problems in the new tree... that's fair enough, but then you must COMPENSATE nerfs with buffs in other areas. You can't just nerf the Pretty Baby and think balance was improved. You just put Baby in the corner, and nobody puts Baby in a corner!

Nothing in terms of balance is being improved by this, because you nerf bad variants and chassi harder than good mechs. The best became better, the worst became worse. Fixing tech balance and laser balance will not change that (though I am happy that it's addressed eventually). Tech will affect all variants/chassi the same, the nerfed weak ones are still broken.

[Moadebe]

So much salt from so many tears...

i want full c-bills for all my modules no matter what....
I cant click that many times to remaster my mechs even though i click alot while playing...
I am too lazy to work out my own builds so ill wait till there are templates from other players out...
ENGINE DE-SYNC WHAT!!!
WAAAAAHHHHH CHANGE!!!!!

I needed the salt for my popcorn so thanks...

[XV25]

I suppose that the Tukayyid experience has taught you nothing.
9 days of **** of the Inner Sphere resulted in the fact that you reduce the quirks of IS Mechs.
Mmm...sweet abomination.

[AnHell86]

"So It Begins"

I am against the "clickety click" of the 91 SP nodes. But it's fine; I will play with my favorite mechs and tune them up one by one. Hopefully, I won't get rekt too many times process.

One critique: Why didn't PGI show us the engine desync on Assault mechs too? (you know, the other range of the spectrum?) I guess one of us will have to upload that comparison in YouTube.

o7

[Cub]

Ed Steele, on 15 May 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

Looks like a good patch to me. To all the people crying, the detailed skill tree is something that was promised since before this game was in beta and they were not able to do it at the time, so we got the dumbed down placeholder that we have had all these years. Also, I bet there will be just as many people who actually quit over this as there were butthurt Trump-hating Hollywood actors and Actresses who actually left the USA like they said they would if Trump won

[Redacted, please keep politics out of this!]

Edited by Zoeff, 16 May 2017 - 04:17 PM.

[Marius Romanis]

justcallme A S H, on 15 May 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

It says purchase date. Given people buy more than one of a type of module - It logically can't be anything else?

Read the post with vegeta pic page 2 if it does't make sense ill try again

[ZortPointNarf]

I for one am super stoked for this release.

They resolved most of the issues I had with it, especially in the firepower tree. My only gripe is in the one tree where you are forced to gate through crap like hill climb, but I can live with that and hope they change that in future.

One I saw they snuck in without much fanfare was this:
"Game Modes can now be weighted by our event staff for selection in the voting screen, enabling greater flexibility and reliability for any mode-specific Events." This is great, so they can now weight new game modes for events when they do arrive. Jipee.

Finally, getting the Clan Diamond Shark Emblem just made my day, I was honestly expecting those to only ship with Civil War. So big thanks for that.

The recent approach of telling people why you are doing things is great and I hope you will keep that up. As well as the progres shares such as the CW mech previews.

So many of my IS mechs are losing their offensive quirks, you know what I am happy about that, it allows me more freedom to run it with the weapons I want without feeling like I am missing out on its true potential (even though I usually just ignore those anyway).

Can't wait to start tinkering with this tomorrow night as the update will kill my (CET time) prime play time tonight. So much to play with, jipeee
(maybe give all players a day premium time for the big down time (just a suggestion))

Edited by ZortPointNarf, 15 May 2017 - 11:55 PM.