953 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

Arkhangel, on 15 May 2017 - 10:47 PM, said:

of course those mechs are both more agile than warhammers. they weigh less. try using a lighter IS heavy, like the Roughneck, Dragon, Quickdraw, so on. new skill tree'll let you make them fair more durable than they've ever been.

fact is, Engine Desync is really mostly meant to de-incentivize using the top end of a weight class, and incentivize using the smaller, more agile mechs in it. Mechs like the Victor, Awesome, Gargoyle, etc, get ignored simply for the fact they can't have the firepower their bigger cousins have, or the durability. giving them the edge in agility'll give them much more usability.

I mean, look at what's most often seen with IS drops. other than Locusts and the occasional ECM Commando, you'll hardly ever see a Light that isn't in the top of the bracket. for IS mediums, good luck seeing anything under 50 tons unless it's the occasional scout Cicada. Same with heavies apart from the occasional Catapult, and the Roughneck simply because it's new and has some decent hardpoints.

honestly, every weight bracket, roughly 70% of the time, is going to be full of whatever mechs top that bracket out, 35 tonners, 55 tonners, 75 tonners, and 100 tonners, and the only outliers will be the mechs people deem "useful" because the hardpoints are easier to use, even though a lot of those other mechs are perfectly viable if people actually took the time to get used to piloting them.

"Try the Quickdraw?! Try a Dragon!!?"

The 4G and 4H have been rendered into bricks by this. 60% and 40% agility gone in exchange for what? Higher hard points? No? Better hit boxes? No. Oh! they fixed the CT missile tubes! That will make them kick a$$ in exchange for immobility! These people do not play their own game and it shows.

[kutkip]

Zodie, on 16 May 2017 - 01:34 AM, said:

Thank you PGI, the best part is that skill tree removed, so I do not need to purchase mech I do NOT need to master other mech.

This is really something i look forward to, and not having to search for modules. Great patch

[Arkhangel]

invernomuto, on 16 May 2017 - 01:38 AM, said:

Did you read the Q&A on skill tree? I think that the sentence you quoted is explained there.

of course he didn't. that would involve him getting his *** off that pedestal he put himself on. Fact is, bad or good, it's happening, and we'll adapt. There really was only so much you can do PTSing the Skill Tree, and they did it A LOT.

fact is, only reasonable way to get things to where the MAJORITY of the community WANTS THEM is by actually putting the stuff in use BY the majority of the community. regardless of all the damn naysayers, there's always going to be people who keep playing MWO, people who bail because they don't like change, and people who'll join up or come back because they DO like the new change. it's the same for every MMO when a big patch hits, or a new expansion, whatever.

Regardless of PGI does, even if it pisses me off, I'm still going to play the game, because I enjoy the challenge. I enjoy working as a team, I enjoy hanging out with my unit, and I enjoy building and trying out new Mechs. I have never played the game strictly for the sake of wanting to win all the time. Even if I'm a merc, I'm IS, always have been, always will be, and I'd rather my piloting skills be the stick I'm measured by, not how much I jump on the meta bandwagon. In fact, I usually specifically pick a mech out BECAUSE that mech or variant tends to be bashed about sucking, and work on builds to figure out how to make it work best.

out of irony, many of said builds for said mechs tend to work best if the team is actually acting as a TEAM, such as the RA Dual PPC Dual AMS Head Medium Laser VND-1AA. on its own, even with a very good pilot, it's likely to get its *** kicked. however, if the team works to keep the enemy distracted, or draws them into the open, that VND-1AA suddenly shines as a mobile mid-range direct fire support mech with excellent anti-ECM capability.

[Lucky Noob]

Anyone tought about that Clans now get Buffed Armor and Structure ?

Will be fun on the Battlefield

[Kalleballe]

invernomuto, on 16 May 2017 - 01:38 AM, said:

Did you read the Q&A on skill tree? I think that the sentence you quoted is explained there.

You mean the last question here:
https://mwomercs.com...d-chris-lowrey/

IMHO, that is much too vague to mean anything vs the real patch notes now.

[Aramuside]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 15 May 2017 - 08:49 PM, said:

Very miffed with the removal of agility quirks from the Kit Fox, but I suppose I'll have to see what I can do with it post-dequirkening.

I suppose when every other mech has its mobility quirks stripped, it does level the playing field somewhat. A 33% reduction in accel/decel/turnrate/torso yaw is still smaller than the ~40% reduction that assaults and heavies took. But it's really small consolation given how squishy the mech is to begin with.

Challenge accepted regardless. I will enjoy the tears of fatmech pilots when their precious mechs disintegrate.

This may have been answered already (if so apologies!) but from my PTS testing all the lights I tried retained their agility once they had skillpoints in them. The first PTS of PTS 1 was awful for lights but after they patched the lights in steadily it got a lot better. Some people I tested with thought they even improved but possibly they put more points into mobility than I did!

justcallme A S H, on 15 May 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

1. Yes, they are. Go read the patch notes. Clan mechs are getting quirks they did not have before. Heat gen & duration. Previously did not exist in clan space save for set of 8 quirks, which, still remain.

2. A EBJ/HBR under this new system becomes more agil than say a WHM. Therefore the EBJ/HBR do not even need to invest in agility. So how is a Clan mech sacrificing agility when they are gaining it?

3. There is no balance of tech in this patch. So what do we do then? Just, wait, hope?

I get what PGI are doing but you cannot break your game and leave it for months while you "get there". That is what is happening here.

Just to say from my PTS testing if you don't put any points into mobility you will definitely be less agile than at present.

[Boomzill4]

Hype!

As a relatively new player this looks great. Hopefully it encourages more new people to join the game.

[Arkhangel]

@Boom: it's likely to bring back a lot of the oldsters from WAY back too, who remember when PGI originally promised a skill tree like this, before IGP boned them and forced a ton of stopgap measures in, like the old skill tree, and quirks.

not a lot of IS seem to remember we actually did somewhat fine against Clanners without quirks. damn things were really a slippery slope.

[ZortPointNarf]

BarmazelselRS, on 16 May 2017 - 12:41 AM, said:

Are you a junkie addict?
You will be deprived of the freedom of choice in skills, they cut furs into their unique abilities, all the furs are equal to one comb. Everyone is made the same. Everything is done the same - and you are happy and you say thank you.
----------------------------------------------
Players like you are spoiling games.

You clearly have not played PTS, nor do you comprehend what they are trying to achieve here. Some of us come from a development background and understand the challenges facing them, admittedly some are self imposed. Overcoming them is what keeps me interested in this game, the changes being made, and those ones they have been making lately reflect that. A lot of this release is doing groundwork that will only show the foresight and planning that went into it after the Civil War update.
Gone are the days of Min Maxing, now you can have a mech play completely differently to suit your style. There was no real choice in the old system, you clicked the same 13 upgrades in usually the same sequence, and that's it, it could have happened automatically as far as choice was concerned. That is not customization, merely process.
However, I do agree that some of the uniqueness of some of the chassis will fall by the wayside, and if I really hate the change that much I can always sell it and play with the 99 other mechs I have.

re: Are you a junkie addict? Who knows, I will be spending time and money unlocking all the skills per chassis on the ones I like, the ones I don't will just get 91. Once that is all done, I will start buying additional mechs, and with that, bays, colours, patterns etc.

and re: "Players like you are spoiling games.", Players like me are funding games. I am by no means the biggest whale as far as spending on this game, but I do spend, and frequently. It would be quite nice to mute all forum warriors that haven't made a single purchase in the last 6 months to a year. I really wonder what this thread would look like then.

[Bud Crue]

Arkhangel, on 16 May 2017 - 02:33 AM, said:

@Boom: it's likely to bring back a lot of the oldsters from WAY back too, who remember when PGI originally promised a skill tree like this, before IGP boned them and forced a ton of stopgap measures in, like the old skill tree, and quirks.

not a lot of IS seem to remember we actually did somewhat fine against Clanners without quirks. damn things were really a slippery slope.

I think those "oldsters" are looking for an actual skills tree though. Like a tree. With skills, that you as a player unlock as a form of leveling.

That is not what we have here.

What we have in MWO (as of tomorrow) are a series of cut branches...webs maybe...of nodes that are not skills but rather a proxy for quirks. Quirks which apply to individual mechs. There is no sense of skills being developed, of leveling, or even of a friggin tree. And that combination of traits is what at least some of us "oldsters" think of when we think of a "skills tree". This aint that.

ZortPointNarf, on 16 May 2017 - 02:39 AM, said:

You clearly have not played PTS, nor do you comprehend what they are trying to achieve here. Some of us come from a development background and understand the challenges facing them, admittedly some are self imposed. Overcoming them is what keeps me interested in this game, the changes being made, and those ones they have been making lately reflect that. A lot of this release is doing groundwork that will only show the foresight and planning that went into it after the Civil War update.
Gone are the days of Min Maxing, now you can have a mech play completely differently to suit your style. There was no real choice in the old system, you clicked the same 13 upgrades in usually the same sequence, and that's it, it could have happened automatically as far as choice was concerned. That is not customization, merely process.
However, I do agree that some of the uniqueness of some of the chassis will fall by the wayside, and if I really hate the change that much I can always sell it and play with the 99 other mechs I have.

re: Are you a junkie addict? Who knows, I will be spending time and money unlocking all the skills per chassis on the ones I like, the ones I don't will just get 91. Once that is all done, I will start buying additional mechs, and with that, bays, colours, patterns etc.

and re: "Players like you are spoiling games.", Players like me are funding games. I am by no means the biggest whale as far as spending on this game, but I do spend, and frequently. It would be quite nice to mute all forum warriors that haven't made a single purchase in the last 6 months to a year. I really wonder what this thread would look like then.

Did you really just assert that this skill tree results in "gone are the days of Min Maxing"? Huh.

[mad kat]

I'm so glad i used up all my GXP and went and sold most of my modules last night, i'll gladly take the 50% hit if it allowed me to buy a Bushwacker P1 and re-purchase a Griffin 3M. (The latter just so i could restore the mastered skill points).

Although i left behind the Radar Derp module which should give me 133 ~ skill points to use on the mechs i hadn't finished?!?

I just hope that the mechs i didn't finish basic-ing and eliting i get those 'equivalent' skill points that the PTS said i should.

Edited by mad kat, 16 May 2017 - 04:26 AM.

[invernomuto]

Kalleballe, on 16 May 2017 - 02:06 AM, said:

You mean the last question here:
https://mwomercs.com...d-chris-lowrey/

IMHO, that is much too vague to mean anything vs the real patch notes now.

I beg to differ, the devs said essentially that:
1) They do not want the skill tree to be a tool to achieve balance between mechs;
2) They are reducing the importance of quirks as a mean to balance IS vs Clans;
3) They want to balance IS vs Clan essentially with base tech and in June patch there will be a review of the energy values, with expected IS buffs / Clan nerfs

I can understand the criticism on timing (there is 1 month delay between energy stats revision and the removal of quirks) and the parts with no ETA (too vague) but for the other parts to me it seems well explained.
I cannot understand why people are complaining that the skill tree will worsen clan vs IS balance. It's exactly what PGI wants, it will be addressed in the next patches with tech stats changes...

[xengk]

Quote

Victor and Quickdraw Missile Retrofit

IS Orion could use some of that too, the waist missile box will display 10 tubes no matter what missile is install there.

Can someone check did Victor get their abysmal tube count increased?

[ZortPointNarf]

Bud Crue, on 16 May 2017 - 02:42 AM, said:

Did you really just assert that this skill tree results in "gone are the days of Min Maxing"? Huh.

It will shift, before there used to be fairly predictable Min Maxes for each chassis, but it always consisted of load-out not skills. Now skills will have a real tangible impact on those. You could go full glass cannon or tank, the choice is now yours and you actually have the skills to suit your playstyle a bit more.
edit: Or in other words, there will be a lot more variability in the meta per chassis than before.
Not that I really care about meta, I tend to like playing the underdog mechs, just to see if I can get a build on them that works.
Maybe another way of stating it would be, that the meta is about to shift massively, what was known before may not apply anymore.

Edited by ZortPointNarf, 16 May 2017 - 03:15 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Commander A9, on 15 May 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

[Censored] thieves...

When the hell does it matter when the module was purchased? It's in my inventory-it ought to be refunded for the full C-Bill amount!

You want to give us numbers? I'll give you numbers...

-2,520 MC worth of premium consummables
-$14,020,000 worth of standard consummables
-$292,000,000 worth of modules

While I get what you're saying, they changed their minds months before this went live but decided to honor the refund of modules from the point where its possible player purchased them with the expectation that they would be refunded. Prior to Dec 3rd that would not have been a consideration.

Does it suck? For many, yes, but you asked for the reason and that is it.

[Kotev]

I like these new changes, just dont understand all those people complaining about IS mechs get nerfed or maybe is oposite like they cant shoot anymore 5-6 er l lasers alpha from 1000 meters away doing great dmg and disaper ������ Be honest folks with all those quirks some IS mechs are way better then Clan.

Edited by Kotev, 16 May 2017 - 03:11 AM.

[Meldric Ward]

This is completly useless. There was nothing wrong with the old system other than that you could never find any of the modules.

But why this extremly complicated system where you need to have 7263 pages of patchnotes to explain your calculations up and down? Why have 4 (?) different kinds of currencies to handle back and forward conversions all the way? Just to hide the real cost for the player as much as possible? Why waste money on solving problems that have not been problems? Why not fix CW for once? Or find a connection to BattleTech in your so-called "Events" (like "Tukayyid") that do not have anything in common with BattleTech but the name?

Why do even the few minutes it took to write this feel like a complete waste of time?
I am not sure, but I sure know that there are alternatives.

Edited by Meldric Ward, 16 May 2017 - 03:54 AM.

[Bud Crue]

ZortPointNarf, on 16 May 2017 - 02:53 AM, said:

It will shift, before there used to be fairly predictable Min Maxes for each chassis, but it always consisted of load-out not skills. Now skills will have a real tangible impact on those. You could go full glass cannon or tank, the choice is now yours and you actually have the skills to suit your playstyle a bit more.
edit: Or in other words, there will be a lot more variability in the meta per chassis than before.
Not that I really care about meta, I tend to like playing the underdog mechs, just to see if I can get a build on them that works.
Maybe another way of stating it would be, that the meta is about to shift massively, what was known before may not apply anymore.

Disagree. What in this skills tree or its associated changes will cut down on the clan PPFLD meta or the two IS mechs that get played (Grasshopper 5P and Battlemaster) to counter it? What specifically can you point to which suggests that this "meta is about to shift massively"?

Edited by Bud Crue, 16 May 2017 - 03:21 AM.

[ZortPointNarf]

Bud Crue, on 16 May 2017 - 03:21 AM, said:

Disagree. What in this skills tree or its associated changes will cut down on the clan PPFLD meta or the two IS mechs that get played (Grasshopper 5P and Battlemaster) to counter it? What specifically can you point to which suggests that this "meta is about to shift massively"?

Just top of my head, the reduction in numbers of Kodiaks, (although this is due to engine desyncing).
With the higher heat, the 5P is gonna have a hard time cooling down, and they would have to spend skills on jump jets if they want to keep poptarting. What is unknown is where the players will make those trade-offs. Maybe somebody decides to start running LXB Timber wolves instead of the normal lazer vomit, as the heat might be too high. Hell you could even go for a pop poptarting timber now.

Ironically they are introducing so many changes at once, it will be hard to tell initially what has had the most impact and why.

In any case, I am happy they they are introducing a skill tree that at least involves some choice and is not just ceremonial.

Aside: As to FW, I do not care about that (latency too high to be effective), I predict the changes I am mentioning in QP not FW. I'm sure the cookie cutter crowd will find something and stick to it like good lil droids

Edited by ZortPointNarf, 16 May 2017 - 03:44 AM.

[Daemon04]

Another really important question:

On my clan-account Ive got lots of mechs being just basic'ed because i only own one variant of em and they have racked up good amounts of xp. excessive xp on lots of my IS-mechs, too actually.

what is going to happen to these extra xps? example: my viper-c variant. basiced and has extra of 95,536 points available.
if it was mastered. 95.536 - 43000 = 52.536 left over.

there is no note of that in the patch notes or did i miss something?

Edited by Daemon04, 16 May 2017 - 03:51 AM.