953 replies to this topic

[Hobbles v]

Those IS 65 tonners are even worse off than the warhammerstandard after the patch. Other than the roughness almost all IS 65 ton mechs are heavily offensively quirks and many of them had agility quirks too.

Mobility wise most of those 65 tonners that were more agile than ebons and hellbringers are now equal to or lesser than the clan mechs due to lower engine cap.

The bull**** about base stats of mechs being adjusted to reflect the mobility quirks they lost never happened in most cases. Example both the grasshopper and warhammer have agility pre patch. Post patch warhammer does not but grasshopper does.

Weak mechs like the Orion mk 1 got shafted. They all had agility quirks making them more agile than the superior Orion iic. Now they are equal in agility.

[Ulvar]

Steinkrieg, on 16 May 2017 - 07:40 AM, said:

You absolutely DO NOT get more out of them than you invested. The value of a module is in it's usage, not the cost associated with the purchase. Or did you not move your modules around to other mechs? All mechs owned could run one radar dep, one seismo, etc. You really think that getting a finite number of HSP as a refund for an item that had a one time purchase cost of c-bills and gxp that you could use on every mech you owned is a fair trade? Really?

you can only use them to skill mechs, but thats where the module bonuses are now. without the sp it would cost exp too to unlock a skill while you only have paid credits for them. so yeah i think this is fair.

[Kaethir]

MechsForTheMechGods, on 16 May 2017 - 07:16 AM, said:

Oh I see. Thanks for explaining it.
Which post is that from because I didn't see that when reading the Skill Tree Q&A or the patch notes.

Sorry for all the questions, haven't really been following the forums since last year. Been too busy with work.

From the patch notes at the beginning of this thread...

InnerSphereNews, on 15 May 2017 - 06:39 PM, said:

The amount of GSP you receive for your Owned Modules is determined by the Total Purchase Value of all your Owned Modules divided by 45,000 (the C-Bill cost of a Skill Point). For example, a total Purchase Value for all your Owned Modules of 50,000,000 C-Bills would result in you receiving 1,112 General Skill Points (the final value is rounded to to the nearest decimal).
These General Skill Points can be consumed to unlock Skill Nodes for any 'Mech you wish without needing to spend the usual 45,000 C-Bill and 800 XP cost associated with purchasing a standard Skill Point directly.
As a result, the Module > GSP refund process provides you with a great deal of free XP integrated into the GSP conversion. In the above example, 889,600 free XP has essentially been provided to the player in the form of their 1,112 GSP.

[dario03]

MovinTarget, on 16 May 2017 - 07:06 AM, said:

That's not the reasoning.

You spent cbills for mech enhancements (modules). They at first announced that we were getting a full refund in cbills for said mech enhancements, but as the Skill Tree morphed with the PTS, they decided all pre-announcement modules will be refunded as GSP instead of cbills to counter the cost of respeccing.

So they basically refunded your incompatible mech enhancements with compatible mech enhancements. Yes it sucks if you were expecting a full cbill refund as per the original announcement, but in some ways this would have made more sense if it were done from the beginning since its a fair translation of enhancement->enhancement.

Yes, some will kvetch but people who invested in mechs instead of modules will *never* get a 100% cbill refund, will they? Bought weapons? you get a 100% refund for that?

When you bought modules pre-Dec 3rd, were you thinking to yourself "I can't wait to get multiple years usage out of these modules and fully expect PGI to one day give me every cent back!"?

No, you didn't. People latched on to the idea of a 100% refund and they would rather see the skill tree not improve and keep the cbills rather than have the understanding that this was done as a fair(er) compromise between those that invested in mech enhancements and those that did not.

So you can take the GSP (I'll find a use for the 20k+ GSP I'm getting) or you can play the new mini-game "Try to guess with modules I can sell that wouldn't be refunded for 100%"

I lobbied for the GSP to have a resale value, but its not happening... at least not yet.

I bought extra modules for convenience and part of the justification was that I could sell the modules if I needed cbills fast. So no, I didn't buy the modules to get them refunded, but I did base some of the purchase on the ability to sell them.

Edited by dario03, 16 May 2017 - 08:00 AM.

[FreakinLazerbeams]

So originally i thought when the skill tree was coming to mwo it would be heavily spent using xp. haha i racked up 2000000+ xp for nothing on my kdk-3, o well :'(

Looking forward to this skill tree phase since most of my mechs i play don't have any much of quirks before the skill tree.

But in any case, im sure this skill tree will change in time. Sometimes u gotta take one step back to take two steps forward. Will it improve, probably. Just everyone needs to be patient.

Quirks/mech don't make the pilot IMO.

[Duilliath]

Navid A1, on 15 May 2017 - 06:40 PM, said:

now... let me just put this here while I read this




ok...

may I just ask for the reason behind the 400XP re-activation cost of a skill node?

To discourage experimentation. As stated in their goals, right?

[Steinkrieg]

Ulvar, on 16 May 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

you can only use them to skill mechs, but thats where the module bonuses are now. without the sp it would cost exp too to unlock a skill while you only have paid credits for them. so yeah i think this is fair.

You are out of your mind. You seriously think that a one time buy with a SP is equal to infinite movability of a module. That's like saying you prefer a finite fuel resource to an infinite one. And then, on top of that, if you choose to switch around your nodes, you are charged 400xp every time you reactivate it. It's like having to buy a new kitchen knife every time you want to cut something for cooking.

[MovinTarget]

dario03, on 16 May 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

I bought extra modules for convenience and part of the justification was that I could sell the modules if I needed cbills fast.

I.... I... dunno what to say...

You're right, if you really wanted to invest in the most expensive elements of the game with the expectation of only getting a 50% return... Sure, sell 'em now and you are getting EXACTLY what you expected...

...but is it me or that just an interesting way to burn through cbills...?

[Ulvar]

dario03, on 16 May 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

I bought extra modules for convenience and part of the justification was that I could sell the modules if I needed cbills fast. So no, I didn't buy the modules to get them refunded, but I did base some of the purchase on the ability to sell them.

so where is the problem? you have 53 minutes to do that.

[groundpounder47]

Ah yes, it's finally here. Well, I'll keep an eye on this game but for now, I'm done. I'm sorry, MWO. It was a good run.

[Thorqemada]

What to say - the use of "Consumables" is now not more an urgent recommendation but imperative!

I hate consumables...

[dario03]

Ulvar, on 16 May 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

so where is the problem? you have 53 minutes to do that.

The problem is I am losing that option in 34 minutes. Before it was sell whenever I want.
And who said I am only talking about me? What about the guys that don't even know the skill tree is coming? There was very little said in game about this, I think the pts announcement and the patch notes are about the only thing. Or players that have a lot invested but have been on break?

[Lovas]

What I find most amusing is their approach to balance the game, this is my translation to their approach.

"We have no idea how to balance IS vs Clan....so we are going to remove everything, let you fight each other for a bit and see how bad it really is - then in a few months we'll have enough data to adjust base stats."

They expect people to play absolute garbage mechs and get stomped in them for months. In the real world people will stop playing. Then PGI can complain that they do not have enough data points to balance the game so they leave it as is.

**EDIT**
I have no doubt that PGI cares, and I think they try real hard (whomever is left working on this that hasn't been pulled over to MechWarrior 5). Honestly, they should stop game development and just be a subcontractor to another game company and do the art for them.

Edited by Lovas, 16 May 2017 - 08:33 AM.

[MovinTarget]

dario03, on 16 May 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:

The problem is I am losing that option in 34 minutes. Before it was sell whenever I want.
And who said I am only talking about me? What about the guys that don't even know the skill tree is coming? There was very little said in game about this, I think the pts announcement and the patch notes are about the only thing. Or players that have a lot invested but have been on break?

Well if all you used the modules for was a terrible form of investment then yes, you are losing that... feature...

However, *in theory* you will now have a more flexible system to augment mechs. *In Theory* you will be able to "level" them in a more measured pace (each unlock is cheaper than a current skill, they all cost the same) in fact your leveling of a mech will actually speed up (performance improves, cost of future unlocks remains constant) as opposed to now where later skills cost more.

I am sorry if you feel like you are losing something, but if what you are gaining is of ZERO interest to you I guess I can see your point.

Still seems like the Bernie Madoff of investment plans to me though...

[dario03]

MovinTarget, on 16 May 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

Well if all you used the modules for was a terrible form of investment then yes, you are losing that... feature...

However, *in theory* you will now have a more flexible system to augment mechs. *In Theory* you will be able to "level" them in a more measured pace (each unlock is cheaper than a current skill, they all cost the same) in fact your leveling of a mech will actually speed up (performance improves, cost of future unlocks remains constant) as opposed to now where later skills cost more.

I am sorry if you feel like you are losing something, but if what you are gaining is of ZERO interest to you I guess I can see your point.

Still seems like the Bernie Madoff of investment plans to me though...

The whole point is that modules could be sold, its not something I would do often but it was an option. So if I have to get GSP in exchange instead of the cbills that I spent, then they should have that option. I see no reason for it not to be.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

There is discrepancy between what's stated in the skill tree screenshots, and what's stated in terms of the tables. Hope the skill tree is right and the maximum cooldown value has been increased 11.25%

[Steinkrieg]

MovinTarget, on 16 May 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

Well if all you used the modules for was a terrible form of investment then yes, you are losing that... feature...

However, *in theory* you will now have a more flexible system to augment mechs. *In Theory* you will be able to "level" them in a more measured pace (each unlock is cheaper than a current skill, they all cost the same) in fact your leveling of a mech will actually speed up (performance improves, cost of future unlocks remains constant) as opposed to now where later skills cost more.

I am sorry if you feel like you are losing something, but if what you are gaining is of ZERO interest to you I guess I can see your point.

Still seems like the Bernie Madoff of investment plans to me though...

I don't think that he bought them as an investment plan. I bought a few Radar deps because I had the cash available at the time and didn't want to have to move only one around when I switched mechs between matches. I bought them to effectively reduce downtime between matches, and so that all of the mechs in my drop deck for CW would have them. The idea of "I can sell it if I needed cash really quick" is more likely an afterthought and justification for purchasing more than one, not the reason for purchasing more.

[WolfOfLight]

I know pgi thinks this will be good... but as someone mentioned awhile back, we don't get enough cbill payouts per match for this kind of patch... any time i try to introduce anyone to mechwarrior they play for a week and then quit for the same reason

4 mechbay at start, and only make about 10,000 cbills tops per match since being new they cant get kills, hell, they can barely pass 100 dmg a match, and even when they get good (5+ kills a match) only 100,000 per match, and that's from trying hard.


please pgi, give us better Cbill rates to counteract the addition of skill tree costs...

[PhoenixNMGLB]

Well, I'm excited for this update including the engine desync.

I appreciate that in the short term there will be a big hit to balance but in the long run we will have a system better than the quirkening , which obviously hasn't worked.

Great job PGI - keep it up.

[D V Devnull]

To anyone that doesn't know me, I'm a "Non-Meta, Non-Brawler, Casual"-type of MechWarrior. I'm also getting to this thread more than 14 hours late. Sadly, PGI has finally blown it, and forced me to quit MWO abruptly. I left them a series of warnings, including...

• Don't mess with LRM Range -- it should remain at a 1000-Meter BaseLine
  This is because they're not messing with Energy or Ballistic Weapon Ranges in any severe way. Worse, an awful change like this therefore severely advantages those who are using the "Gauss/ERPPC Meta", or for that matter anyone who boats Energy Weapons and/or Ballistic Weapons, such as those "Call of Duty"-based Sniping Whiners who are trying to remove LRMs. Sadly, the LRM weapon system is part of what makes MechWarrior (and BattleTech in general) the game it happens to be, and to make it bad in such a manner removes its' ability to work in MWO. PGI's action has therefore made MWO no longer a MechWarrior game to me, and I hope that PGI soon finds out how awful and ugly of an error they have made here, as they slowly see this game turn into "Call Of Duty Mechs".
  Further of note, Teamwork will now also get worse, as people used to help others in order to get extra earnings during a match. Now they won't see as much benefit, and therefore that edge and angle to both LRM and Non-LRM users will go out the window. Say goodbye to teammates helping teammates get Enemy Mechs off each other's backs.
  Also, as one last note, people with older computers who can't put up the Real $$$ to upgrade get screwed here as well, as they were depending on LRMs remaining useful in order to continue playing. They don't have the computer systems to handle Brawling and/or Long-Range Rendering for Direct-Fire Situations.
  
• Lowering LRM Range Limits hurts the insertion area for I.S. MRMs
  I really tried to warn PGI about this, but it seems they're not listening. Any pilot who uses I.S. Mechs at all, you have my sincerest condolences about the matter. Unfortunately, you're not going to see the useful range beyond the Streak SRMs (which have up to a 400-Meter Limit, I think?) now that you should have been given (a 700-Meter Limit at the Minimum), and the usefulness of the MRM Weapon System is going to start out Nerfed and Damaged in the first place. What a wreck, even before the "Civil War Update" that was supposed to happen in July.
  
• 91 Nodes is far too few -- give 120 Nodes minimum for Non-Meta Pilots
  Frankly, I feel that PGI should be giving even more (about 150!), but I was trying not to be rabid. I worked over the Skill Tree images several times, attempting to find some way under the new systems to keep all my mechs (and therefore any Non-Meta Design) up to some minimum level of effectiveness to a team. Each and every time, I came up 29 Nodes Short, which brought me to a 120-Node Number. Further, a game called "BorderLands" had managed to balance out at a '13 Nodes Allowed for every 21 Nodes Available' system. Calculating on that, PGI would have to 'Allow 147 Nodes for the 237 Nodes Available'. But, I was trying to avoid over-boosting Meta-Type Pilots in the process of coming up with a suitable number to keep Non-Meta Mech Designs from being completely ruined. Sadly, the only people who are going to benefit now are Meta-Type Mech Pilots because they don't need as many Nodes as a Non-Meta Pilot. I can pretty much call it right now that MWO is going to devolve into "MetaMech Online" only, and that all other Pilots are going to be driven away.
  
• Stop with your "Clan-aimed Hate", PGI -- No, really!
  What PGI has failed to notice is where the skilled players have gone, because of where they think they can get the best enjoyment from the game with their "Meta Designs" and such. Sadly, too many moved Clan-side, and there weren't enough in the Inner Sphere to properly represent so that PGI could get the data they needed to balance MWO, just because those high-skilled players wanted their Victory Trophies and such. (In case you're wondering, I was 'Clan' during "Tukayyid 3" for other reasons, as I'm NOT that highly skilled myself!) Unfortunately, this means that PGI has once again continued to hate Clan Technology, where such hate was NOT due. I guess you'll all be seeing the constant devolution of MWO over this unnecessary hate causing a problem spot as well.

...and I'm sure there was more that I should be posting here, but I can't think of it at the moment. Still waking up, feeling worn out, and then I see how badly PGI screwed everything up. No, I won't be patching, I won't be playing anymore. PGI has finally driven out a 'Voice Of Reason', as I can't handle their insanity anymore. I've got other games to take up as options to play, so I'm going to leave and have fun with them.

~Mr. D. V. "To hell with PGI and MWO... Goodbye... Enjoy watching the meltdown, if you stick around." Devnull