953 replies to this topic

[BEARDOOM]

I'M OUT... Something is missing, lot is overnoding... Mistakes are expensive!
Deleted game after year of every day gaming.
METAL SLUG... Except bulk armor, my SCORCH is slug, bad cooldown. I like consumubles!
Old system was bad, becouse of 3 chasies. But this... It's to NOD-ius.

I will install on July becouse of DEATHSTRIKE and new weapon.

[BEARDOOM]

Overhorny. To much waithing of the girl. She is here, and she is preety, and she have lot of requests. But I'm tired.

[Aramuside]

HeresWhy, on 17 May 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

The module value is just an extension of the larger and more impactful issue that is costing players hundreds of millions of cbills in value under this system. Those who bought a bunch of modules for all their mechs versus those who swapped their modules around. Your suggestion exacerbates the larger issue created by a players preference to either minimize downtime or diversify their gameplay experience.

In which case you should counter it with the advantage you had from those modules over their entire ownership. You tried to game the system and get free modules and now you're complaining you got burnt.

Crockdaddy, on 17 May 2017 - 05:46 PM, said:

We should EXPECT full price as we put in FULL time to earn said items. Many of the salty ones have been the biggest supporters of this game over the years. I don't typically overreact much but I am seriously wondering if I want to put time into this. I have more pre-orders I am deciding if I should cancel or not. I am just not feeling it. It feels like a lot of work.

I think most likely I will cancel 1/2 my pre-orders (I can't cancel the Timber MkII) and take a break. Its over due anyway and come back at this later with a fresh perspective so I can enjoy playing again. I enjoy MWO despite its shortcomings but I've been playing this game for over 5 years now ( Sept 2012 closed Beta) ... I think maybe it's just time for a break.

Despite my salt, I think the skill tree needs tweaks and adjustments but is a better way forward for newer players and ultimately for the game itself. I just don't want to deal with it right now.

Full price less depreciation for all the use you had from them... wait thats essentially what they did...

[Aramuside]

Gernot von Kurzmann, on 17 May 2017 - 10:44 PM, said:

Iam also done with MWO after this patch of hell!

But i will miss my untit the GCGB!

But now MWO is a time waste out of hell for me and no fun is the reason!

I doesnt play the game any longer and i hope all the guys who hate this patch like iam will follow me

AND LEAVE!

That is no protest leave only - but it hurts what way mwo is walking.

Iam angry how long time i spend too mwo for ending so bad.

But a good thing at the end.

My new beautiful girlfriend dont like online gamers - and so iam never be anymore an

Online gamer!!


FREEDOM!!!!

I thought you told us you had already gone?

[brove]

weapons tree is totally broken.
basically the idea is not that bad, but now we always have to skill cooldown, range and velocity together for ALL weapons - how stupid is that? back in the module days e.g. you could use range module for C-ERML and cooldown module for C-LPL to bring them at almost equal range and cycle time. same for SRM and MPL..
in this config we would need at least something like a triangle where u can distinguish missile/energy/ballistic cooldown and range separately...
also i am not happy with the new radar derp - instead of using ONE mech module (with 2-3 remaining for weapons) now i have to use almost one entire tree for highest result - if you wanna have equal pre-patch mobility and heat diss., this means you have to reduce firepower or structure for radar derp

[Storyteller]

Dear Devs,

thanks for the new skilltree. Basically I like it a lot and I am more than happy that you finally released it against all odds.

But of course there is still room for improvement. Here is my wishlist:

1. Dye all skillpoints of the same type in the same color (f.e. all cooldown nodes = green)
2. If you hover with your mouse over a skill, all skills of the same type in the tree should be highlighted.

Both features are already shown here: https://kitlaan.gitlab.io/mwoskill/

3. If you want to get to a specific skill like ECM, the skilltree should show you the most efficient way to go there - like Google Maps pathfinding. If you okay with the preset path, you just have to klick the last skill and all the skills on the way there are automatically selected.
4. Have a deep look at the balancing, especially regarding the Night Gyr and jump sniping.

Thanks for reading.
Storyteller

[MrKvola]

Bad update is bad.

1. I participated in both PTS sessions and provided constructive feedback (as well as a lot of other players did). I do not believe that much of it was taken into account, PGI's vision seems to overshadow all and everyone. Not sure that this is the right way to go. Feedback shows.

2. The complexity was criticized since day one. The improvements made here were rather insignificant. I still do not believe that a skill tree this complex provides us with more customization options (as desirable nodes are heavily gated) than a significantly simpler model. Many examples were provided, apparently none considered as PGI already had this mess in place.

3. The UI/UX is just dreadful and in need of dire improvement. This reservation seems to have been absolutely ignored, although feedback was provided since day one on it. The number of clicks necessary and time spent has not decreased a bit.

A major improvement would be automatic path selection for tree branches - i.e. you could highlight nodes that lead to a node which the cursor hovers over (activated by left-click) and if more paths are possible to reach said node you could cycle those with a right click. I believe a similar idea was already raised in PTS1 feedback. No reaction as of now (Or, just to be fair, it was MENTIONED in the recent Q&A, but no implementation deadlines, not even promises of implementation).

Also, please introduce a dead zone on mouse click when selecting a node - when in a hurry the tree map is moved instead of selecting a node (or make the map move with right-button clicks only).

The ability to save say 4 skill node templates from existing skill trees - now that would be helpful! (and again I believe this was already suggested in PTS1... why was nothing like this implemented?) Potentially saving hundreds, thousands or perhaps even tens of thousands of mouse clicks per player seems to be quite an improvement...

4. The "economy" and grind are way out of whack. PGI did decrease node cost, however they hid the skillup costs otherwise - you now have to pay for each and every node you want to at least TRY OUT. And it never gets repayed back. Even if you have no desire to use it on that 'mech ever. I did fiddle around with a couple of 'mechs and found that I was re-speccing around 30 nodes if I found the initial selection unsatisfactory. Which gets us to a total of 120-ish (and often more) purchased nodes. This has led me to a total cost of around 100k XP and 5.4 mil c-bills for tricking out a 'mech. Which about equals mastering 3 'mechs in the previous system. Bar the c-bill cost, of course. If somebody says that the Skill Tree provides you with a better sense of progression, I would just like to point out that in the time it takes you to trick out a single 'mech now you would have levelled up almost three. I believe that is less reward for effort spent. I am not even considering the extra c-bill cost here.

It is not as much of an impact now, while most of the players have historic SPs and all other levelling resources lying around. That may also be the intended way to sneak this past, so players don't notice it that much.

5. I am not even going into the re-spec cost because that is just utterly bad. It is punishment for experimentation (as well as the need to purchase node unlocks).

In my opinion the only investment we should be making is the purchase of Skill Points which we should be able to re-assign as we see fit. Now THIS approach would encourage experimentation and diversity. With the current model players will just converge to models that some people will come up for metamechs or somesuch as they are effectively punished for any kind of experimentation with the current model.

6. LRMageddon - to sufficiently skill up Sensors for a LRM boat you require 11 skill nodes. And need to skill up in nothing more than the weapons tree after.

To fully activate Radar Dep you need 20. I do not see how Target Decay and Radar Dep are of different value for opposing 'mechs - the lurmer needs an enabler to deal damage, the direct damage dealer needs a way to elude him. Making LRM-related skills lower value introduces imbalance to the game.

Even with Radar Derps all around you could successfully lurm in QP - just had to add some actual skill to the game, not just stand 3/4 of a click behind the battle line. And hope for a NARCer (where getting NARCed on Polar was and still is an almost inescapable death sentence no matter your skill).

7. Module removal - there is one significant aspect that was removed, and that is the possibility to mount modules on a fresh 'mech. Doing so did reduce the disadvantage of having a totally fresh 'mech at least a little bit in that you could improve it's performance right from the start. You now do not have that choice anymore and having to face skilled out opponents just brings you terribad match scores and gaming experience unless you are facing absolute potatoes.

I could go on, I just don't believe it will have much effect if I do. And so I choose to not spend any more energy on this right now.

I may provide additional feedback if I see that even this post had any kind of effect. Feel free to engage any of the people whose feedback you liked directly, PGI - you have our e-mails.

Oh and in regards of choice deprivation - we were deprived of choice. I could choose to swap modules around or grind extra c-bills to have dedicated sets of modules. I do not have that freedom now. There is some semblance of choice in the Skill Tree, but I believe it is severely limited due to node gating (and in order to take full advantage of mastery status you have to purchase at least 91 Skill Points). So no cheapskates anymore. I bet Russ is happy.

edit: misplaced a sentence.

Edited by MrKvola, 18 May 2017 - 07:08 AM.

[Duilliath]

HuntingU, on 17 May 2017 - 06:37 PM, said:

OMG. The new skill tree is the absolutely most amazing invention ever. So Canon!

I see what you did there.

[KKrazy]

~100 clicks per mech, 52 mechs (sorry for those of you that have many many more) ...5000+ clicks to quirk all mechs.... f that.. good bye. Was fun PGI, but this is just dumb

[Sky Hawk]

MrKvola, on 18 May 2017 - 04:29 AM, said:

...
6. LRMageddon - to sufficiently skill up Sensors for a LRM boat you require 11 skill nodes. And need to skill up in nothing more than the weapons tree after.
...

Actually, if you want a nice working LRM-boat, you need a bunch of heat-stuff from the Operations (like 21/25) and least some Mobility nodes too (like some Hard Break/Kinetic Burst)..

[Iqfish]

Why the flying flip does reequipping already purchased nodes cost me XP?!

Wasn't it enought to take like 500.000.000 C-Bills from me which I spent on modules and converting them to "HXP" I can't use without spending more money?

This is so insanely stupid, I am not willing to spend a week figuring out skill paths to my 100 mechs. WTF.

[Simos The Greek]

Gernot von Kurzmann, on 17 May 2017 - 10:44 PM, said:

My new beautiful girlfriend dont like online gamers - and so iam never be anymore an

Online gamer!!


FREEDOM!!!!

you call this "freedom"?

we need new event asap!

[MrKvola]

Sky Hawk, on 18 May 2017 - 05:15 AM, said:

Actually, if you want a nice working LRM-boat, you need a bunch of heat-stuff from the Operations (like 21/25) and least some Mobility nodes too (like some Hard Break/Kinetic Burst)..

Tried a quick sim, got this:
Anchor Turn +5% Cool Run +6% Cooldown −12% Hard Brake +14% Heat Containment +9% Heat Gen −10.5% High Explosive +15% Hill Climb +5% Improved Gyros −17.5% Kinetic Burst +21% Missile Rack +2 Missile Spread −5% Quick Ignition −7% Range +15% Sensor Range +35% Speed Retention +20% Target Decay +3.5 Target Info Gathering +21% Target Retention +200 Velocity +8%

Top tier improvements (for skills that matter) almost across the board and I barely had to make any compromises... and got to spend 55 (!) nodes in Weapons tab.

[Kalleballe]

Gman posted some short thoughts:
http://metamechs.com...hts-skill-tree/

Make the damn maze smaller, like 1/2 or less. Otherwise it don't matter too much, have to balance around it anyway (if that ever happens)

More sad about quirks scaled back, now chassis is more similar and less reason to collect different ones. Guess PGI don't care about selling mechbays.

[HuntingU]

I love how the radio chatter is all propaganda now. Nothing about the community backlash over the skill tree. Way to #coverup!

[Horseman]

Iqfish, on 18 May 2017 - 05:17 AM, said:

Wasn't it enought to take like 500.000.000 C-Bills from me which I spent on modules and converting them to "HXP" I can't use without spending more money?

The modules are refunded as GSP, not as HXP. Look at the refund ledger - you can spend the GSP on any mech without investing any XP or C-Bills.

HuntingU, on 18 May 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

I love how the radio chatter is all propaganda now. Nothing about the community backlash over the skill tree. Way to #coverup!

I'd expect that's because plenty of the detractors have already left the game in disgust.

Edited by Horseman, 18 May 2017 - 06:11 AM.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

Horseman, on 18 May 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

The modules are refunded as GSP, not as HXP. Look at the refund ledger - you can spend the GSP on any mech without investing any XP or C-Bills.
I'd expect that's because plenty of the detractors have already left the game in disgust.

And the GSP are useless since mechs are mastered and HSP are available, meaning he has to grind 125 new mechs to use the GPS he got.

[MovinTarget]

Cara Carcass, on 18 May 2017 - 06:19 AM, said:

And the GSP are useless since mechs are mastered and HSP are available, meaning he has to grind 125 new mechs to use the GPS he got.

Yeah all they need to do is give us an ability to sell GSP and many would be much happier. I want *some* GSP, it is useful for new mechs and free respeccing but I don't need 18k GSP methinks...

[Arkhangel]

I believe it was meant as a suggestion, considering you clearly aren't.

[Arkhangel]

brove, on 18 May 2017 - 04:13 AM, said:

weapons tree is totally broken.
basically the idea is not that bad, but now we always have to skill cooldown, range and velocity together for ALL weapons - how stupid is that? back in the module days e.g. you could use range module for C-ERML and cooldown module for C-LPL to bring them at almost equal range and cycle time. same for SRM and MPL..
in this config we would need at least something like a triangle where u can distinguish missile/energy/ballistic cooldown and range separately...
also i am not happy with the new radar derp - instead of using ONE mech module (with 2-3 remaining for weapons) now i have to use almost one entire tree for highest result - if you wanna have equal pre-patch mobility and heat diss., this means you have to reduce firepower or structure for radar derp

Actually, you don't, if you took the time to notice the web between points. I've managed to get all range, CD, heat, and laser duration without even touching velocity.

HuntingU, on 18 May 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

I love how the radio chatter is all propaganda now. Nothing about the community backlash over the skill tree. Way to #coverup!

that's mostly because there really isn't much of one. the vast majority of PLAYERS are actually either enjoying it, or adapting. it's only about half the forumwarriors that're whining, and most of you probably didn't play that much to begin with.