299 replies to this topic

[- MEDUSA -]

justcallme A S H, on 16 May 2017 - 07:56 PM, said:

Yeah man, talking to a lot of our pilots - break is on the cards, myself included. It's just ridiculous and so convoluted I don't even know where to start?

I spent 20mins this morning trying to theorise one mech because you are effectively punished for making a bad choice with reskill costs... So I just logged off and went to work. I'd planned to spend a few hours but, after how bad it is. Fk it.

QP / FP / Comp all need different builds, plans, skills. You literally have to spend DAYS in the mechlab trying to sift through it all to even get a vauge idea of what is going to work in each circumstance/modes/area of the game.

I cancelled my pre-order as well for this reason. Voting with my wallet on this one.

Just made the same! Until Sunday I play normally 3 to 4 hours at day and buy a lot of mech packages, from the patch day, after two days of WTF I stopped and I asked the refound for all my preorders.
Thx for this, fortunally on June Battletech will come out so...I will felt a bit less sad.....probably not sad for all!

[Moebius Pi]

Leopardo, on 19 May 2017 - 12:32 AM, said:

guys guys plz - we all can agree that if PGI will make this tree in normal way and give the weapon specialization nodes - also remove this stupid rule - that you cant have what you want with out the **** around - this tree can be good - its a step forward guys anyway,

So all we need is to make them remake the tree with our needs - all is here in this post! plz who can show it to pgi
collect the ideas and send them....or give it to those who can send.....PLZ

I'd definitely think that streamlining it into less of a snarl would be far more intuitive... but what you'll just end up with is the go-to "no matter what, you likely want these" nodes will cost more than one skill point instead of being gated if you want to see some tree diversity and debate if its REALLY worth that extra 1 or 2% for the node investment, or better off put into another tree. Nobody will be grabbing shock absorbance. Hill Climb. Gyros etc. (where they work better as sidegrade perks rather than their own thing). Few will give a flying **** about any infotech beyond ECM and Seismic nodes etc. which is precisely why it was made the way it was.

Not the most elegant setup, but the most "here's some extra goodies". As is I've already ran into maybe a good 4 or 5 tree setups I'll be using for almost every one of my 160+ mechs. There are some outliers, but only a handful (could go up to 6 though). If they let you save the templates though, I think it'd spare the majority of the headache folks are running into, including time consumption, along with mouse drag and drop over nodes to create a path, instead of clicking each, but what's good for one, rarely is good for everyone.

You'll just end up with less side perks than you get currently (though it will look massively cleaner). If you're expecting just to get all the highly desired optimizations at normal cost... there's little point customizing anything, and you may as well stick with the old pointless tree because it'll be a carbon copy across every loadout at that point beyond near heat neutral ones.

As is, if they went the cleaner route... I wouldn't overly complain, though I'd get less in general out of it for the node investments (assuming they didn't **** the bed and basically turn it like the old crap setup). Apparently the 91 node setup is just too hard for some people (boggles my mind, but hey, the complaints are there), though I'm used to far more Byzantine tree setups that are far less transparent on what their real end benefits will end up as in other games, so that may be why. Customization is one of my big draws to this game anyhow; I'm not really big on the "Stock Lore or Bust" mentality, so the more I can tinker with, the more interested I usually am.

[justcallme A S H]

DAEDALOS513, on 17 May 2017 - 03:42 AM, said:

This is a great point Ash and another reason why this patch wasn't 'value-added' to the user. If you want to change your build on a whim for comp or lobby fights, and do it optimally, you have to devote serious time for this and points. Then don't forget you have to revert it back to your normal build, which will take even more time and points cuz you know, there's no way to save tree loadouts..

..I seem to recall in a town-hall meeting ages ago that they said they were gonna work on a way to allow the player to save their loadouts to a file? Now THAT would have been a value-added feature!

Yeah man, this is what is killing it for me ATM.

The QP / FP / Comp build variance.

Our unit had 20 guys on TS over 14hrs trying to figure it out for just comp. I'm also trying to figure it all out for FP as that is my main focus.

It's just time, on time, on time because of this convoluted rubbish selection and making the best of the "crap" nodes that I DO NOT WANT.

Like we have comp spreadsheets right now that would make you cry that is how much info is in them. Even after playing a mech for a couple of hours I'm back in Skill Tree adjusting (and paying penalties) etc etc. It's just ridiculous. It just should not be this hard.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 19 May 2017 - 02:05 AM.

[Horseman]

Leopardo, on 19 May 2017 - 12:32 AM, said:

guys guys plz - we all can agree that if PGI will make this tree in normal way and give the weapon specialization nodes - also remove this stupid rule - that you cant have what you want with out the **** around - this tree can be good - its a step forward guys anyway,
So all we need is to make them remake the tree with our needs - all is here in this post! plz who can show it to pgi
collect the ideas and send them....or give it to those who can send.....PLZ

The problem is that this feedback was already given to PGI from the first PTS onward and was mostly disregarded.

justcallme A S H, on 19 May 2017 - 12:36 AM, said:

I'm all for Skill Tree - just not this horrific implementation of it.

QFT. This seems to be a common sentiment.

Moebius Pi, on 19 May 2017 - 12:51 AM, said:

but what you'll just end up with is the go-to "no matter what, you likely want these" nodes will cost more than one skill point instead of being gated if you want to see some tree diversity and debate if its REALLY worth that extra 1 or 2% for the node investment, or better off put into another tree.

I'd say we're already at that point now - people will copy-paste same loadouts across their mechs en masse rather than put in more serious consideration about weighing the benefits against each other.

Quote

Nobody will be grabbing shock absorbance. Hill Climb. Gyros etc. (where they work better as sidegrade perks rather than their own thing).

The problem those upgrades have is that they're one-trick ponies without a hook that would entice the players to choose them.
That would be easy to fix by giving them additional properties that are inherently desirable, eg Speed Retention and Shock Absorbance buffing leg structure or Gyro upgrade improving your turn rate (perhaps acting as a multiplier rather than merely additive bonus?).

Quote

Apparently the 91 node setup is just too hard for some people (boggles my mind, but hey, the complaints are there)

Or at least tedious and requiring an investment of time and effort they see as excessive.

[Hymirson]

All I can say the new patch sucks, that´s the end for me playing MWO.
I just do not have the time and do not want to have to redo the whole again.

[DAEDALOS513]

Moebius Pi, on 19 May 2017 - 12:51 AM, said:

I'd definitely think that streamlining it into less of a snarl would be far more intuitive... but what you'll just end up with is the go-to "no matter what, you likely want these" nodes will cost more than one skill point instead of being gated if you want to see some tree diversity and debate if its REALLY worth that extra 1 or 2% for the node investment, or better off put into another tree. Nobody will be grabbing shock absorbance. Hill Climb. Gyros etc. (where they work better as sidegrade perks rather than their own thing). Few will give a flying **** about any infotech beyond ECM and Seismic nodes etc. which is precisely why it was made the way it was.

You'll just end up with less side perks than you get currently (though it will look massively cleaner). If you're expecting just to get all the highly desired optimizations at normal cost... there's little point customizing anything, and you may as well stick with the old pointless tree because it'll be a carbon copy across every loadout at that point beyond near heat neutral ones.

Thanks Moebius for pointing out a fundamental problem pre, and post tree... there are enhancements that nobody wants.. PGI needs to create more useful enhancements than this sorry handful. It's been suggested many times over in years gone by.. but PGI ignores.. so if you won't equip these enhancements, they now FORCE you to.. lol

if they did create useful enhancements, there would be much more role-warfare and less cookie-cutter loadouts.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 19 May 2017 - 03:49 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

justcallme A S H, on 19 May 2017 - 02:04 AM, said:

It just should not be this hard.

Truer words were never spoken.

[axerion]

it took me about 30 minutes to think about some decisions and then make the clicks to level up 2 of my mechs... remaining 248...

i signed up for MECHwarrior online... Not CLICKwarrior online...

plz implement some sort of "Fast skill Mode" or at least let me duplicate build just by clicking "Duplicate" or something like that, but like this, I even don´t want to login any more, seeing all that unneccesary work that has to be done, just to get my mechs fixed up again...

[Brom96]

Again, as many has pointed out (and I must say that I never saw a game with skill tree, and had no idea what on earth that is until I saw this abomination) - it is tedious, has too many useless things that no one ever used (hill climb, etc.) and waste of time. It almost looks like an attempt to kill the game.

[Psycho Cop]

It pays to boat.. Mechs with good hardpoints and hit boxes are even better..
The people who are satisfied with the skill tree take out overpowered mechs that previously didn't have quirks, of course they are overjoyed their Kodiaks, Timberwolves, Ebon Jags and Marauder IICs make them feel godlike.
I feel the wrong incentives are placed in the game now.

You can't have the same skill tree for a KDK3 (assault) and for example a Locust-1E (lights).
Most skills do not benefit the one or the other. There should be separate skill trees that would be beneficial to lights. And separate skill trees for overpowered chassis. I know this will take a lot more time to design and think out. But it sure as heck would be a lot less time than your whole user base breaking their heads on how to balance out this fecal storm.

[Horseman]

Brom96, on 19 May 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

I must say that I never saw a game with skill tree, and had no idea what on earth that is until I saw this abomination

This actually is not representative of how most games handle the concept. Usually there's a fair amount of wiggle room, but the overall thing is still fairly focused and your next options are relatively clear:

Diablo II is often brought up as a model: http://diablo.gamepe...zon_(Diablo_II)

More free-form systems also exist, for example in Witcher 3 you invest into three categories of talents, but the only thing that gates your access to higher tier abilities is the amount of points you've invested into the category so far: http://thewitcher3.w...%28Abilities%29

Dead Island does it similarly, but with much less skills to choose from (and usually only requiring 3 points spent on the previous tier): http://deadisland.wi...Trees#Fury_tree

Edited by Horseman, 19 May 2017 - 05:40 AM.

[Dark_Horse]

oh dear, not angry just gutted. Would have been better to just remove the 3 mech unlock to limit the 'new mech' grind pain, but skills are a monstrosity now. In combination with the quirk changes lots of the unusual-fun builds are not viable, but 'hands up' I didn't try the public test and provide feedback, and here it is. Cant imagine it will roll back, what a shame :-(
As far as I can see the only improvement in the patch is that the loadout screen shows the modified values.

Let me just say though big hats off to the support guys, always found them very responsive and understanding, by far the best for any mmo.

[TheRealSloth]

I believe this is my first post on the MWO forums, as I tend to just stick to the OutreachHPG subreddit and in game chat.

I'm a long time Locust pilot. I've also not experience Battletech when I was growing up at all. MWO single-handedly brought Battletech to me and made me adore the setting, and I have a lot of happy memories of playing MWO with my brother.

When the Skill Tree was first announced, I loved the idea. I don't at all mind the idea of sitting down and thinking about what you're going to do for a good long while, I actually *love* when games encourage that. Of course, I have less then 10 mechs, so... obviously, I'm a bit biased in that regard. Anyways, when Skill Tree went to PTS, first thing I did was take my LCT-1E and try it at max mobility/firepower with Radar Dep. Holy ****, was it cool. It felt like maybe a slight buff, or similar to before, but it was *at worst* a slightly modified LCT-1E. Not worse, not better. Then I took my gimmick LCT-3S build in, which I run with no armor and 2 srm 6's as a sort of joke pugstomper build and also to help teach myself how to flank and deal with loners / LRMboats. Holy ****, did that one get a buff. Crazy firepower, *INSANE* mobility due to the 3S' inherent quirks (We're talking a near 360 of the torso in barely a second). It was *fun*.

Now the Skill Tree hits live, really tweaked. I went for pretty much the same nodes as I did before for my 1E, but I had to sacrifice radar deprivation-- something that is *essential* for a Locust-- just to have good firepower.

I take it ingame, and... it performs pretty much the same as pre-buff. Now I just lost my Radar Dep and perform basically the same-- in fact, even worse due to not having quirks to help with heat buildup.

Come to find out, this Skill Tree update seems to absolutely gimp lights and hit mediums pretty hard as well. So, thanks for scaring off a fairly dedicated fan, PGI.

To those that enjoy it, have fun. I'm sure it's a lot more enjoyable from a heavy/assault perspective and maybe even a good change in that sense as well.

[Leopardo]

Moebius Pi, on 19 May 2017 - 12:51 AM, said:

I'd definitely think that streamlining it into less of a snarl would be far more intuitive... but what you'll just end up with is the go-to "no matter what, you likely want these" nodes will cost more than one skill point instead of being gated if you want to see some tree diversity and debate if its REALLY worth that extra 1 or 2% for the node investment, or better off put into another tree. Nobody will be grabbing shock absorbance. Hill Climb. Gyros etc. (where they work better as sidegrade perks rather than their own thing). Few will give a flying **** about any infotech beyond ECM and Seismic nodes etc. which is precisely why it was made the way it was.

Not the most elegant setup, but the most "here's some extra goodies". As is I've already ran into maybe a good 4 or 5 tree setups I'll be using for almost every one of my 160+ mechs. There are some outliers, but only a handful (could go up to 6 though). If they let you save the templates though, I think it'd spare the majority of the headache folks are running into, including time consumption, along with mouse drag and drop over nodes to create a path, instead of clicking each, but what's good for one, rarely is good for everyone.

You'll just end up with less side perks than you get currently (though it will look massively cleaner). If you're expecting just to get all the highly desired optimizations at normal cost... there's little point customizing anything, and you may as well stick with the old pointless tree because it'll be a carbon copy across every loadout at that point beyond near heat neutral ones.

As is, if they went the cleaner route... I wouldn't overly complain, though I'd get less in general out of it for the node investments (assuming they didn't **** the bed and basically turn it like the old crap setup). Apparently the 91 node setup is just too hard for some people (boggles my mind, but hey, the complaints are there), though I'm used to far more Byzantine tree setups that are far less transparent on what their real end benefits will end up as in other games, so that may be why. Customization is one of my big draws to this game anyhow; I'm not really big on the "Stock Lore or Bust" mentality, so the more I can tinker with, the more interested I usually am.

can only agree

and about the feed back yeah - they don't read it al all.

[The Lost Boy]

Tenfingers, on 17 May 2017 - 08:14 PM, said:

Yuppers break time...maybe for good....If you haven't wrote a review on steam i'd take the time to do so now....maybe if enough people leave they will learn.... well once less founder, been here from the kickstarter....i kicked them money, they kicked me in the balls

That is sooooo amusing.

What happened to "Man up, Mech up"?

[Horseman]

Lemming of the BDA, on 19 May 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

What happened to "Man up, Mech up"?

I'm guessing he hit his breaking point.

[Kusunoki Masashige]

I completely HATE you PGI for ruining the game. this skill tree crap is worthless and a waste of my time. Hours i have spent playing these mechs and now you tell me i have to pull my hair to tweak my mech on you f'd up skill tree to try and find a semblance of how it used to run. Well guess what i am not going to waste my time on this game anymore till you get rid of this skill tree misery.
Will be looking for a refund for this now unplayable product.

[HooverGKMMC]

Improvise, adapt, overcome...

[DAEDALOS513]

HooverGKMMC, on 19 May 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

Improvise, adapt, overcome...

No time for that sh*t... PGI need to realize this..

[Pixelpilot]

singed.

The new Skill tree is frustraing. Before i waste my time and money i will take a break too until they fix it.