299 replies to this topic

[Witchytripod]

Commander A9, on 25 May 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

Mechwarrior 4's upgrade and mech design system was somewhat similar. You had a limited amount of tonnage which you could allocate to armor, electronics, and of course weapons, engine power, and heat sinks.

This tree reminds me of that in a sense...

Sorry guys, but you have to adapt to survive. If not, if pointing and clicking and 'sucking it up' is too much for you, well, hell, there's always the Uninstall button. XD

Thanks for the good advice! Uninstalled! Game ruined.

[Randomage]

Commander A9, on 25 May 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

Guys, why not just skill up the mechs you use the most often...and only apply skillpoints to the other mechs when you need them?

It took me maybe an hour's worth of discussing what all the buttons did on the skill tree with my team, experimenting with THIS (https://kitlaan.gitlab.io/mwoskill/), and then clicking "Apply."

Now I have 8 ready-to-drop mechs for my drop decks, all mastered and kicking ***. They're the only ones I skilled up because they're the only ones I need.

What's the problem? What, because you actually have to put work and effort into 'getting good' or preparing your mechs in greater detail for battle?

You're complaining about clicking a goddamn computer mouse!

You ever work on a truck before that needs maintenance? Ever change oil? Improve the transmission? Fix your 'idiot' lights? How about change a timing belt? Yeah, I can tell you that takes more than a few point-and-clicks!

Because when you change a skill tree, you perform maintenance on a mech. Just be thankful this doesn't require actual power tools.

It takes me 5-10 minutes to skill a mech, it would be less if I didn't feel like I have to get it right first time but if I want to change it later it costs XP and CBills (I do use the skills grid site and metamechs to help plan).

This causes two problems for me (and I realise this isn't the case for everyone):

1. That 5-10 minutes isn't fun. The comparison to maintenance is accurate, but maintenance isn't fun (again, for me). I enjoy changing builds because in short space of time I can have a completely different experience in a mech, my experience with the skill tree is the opposite.

2. It limits what mechs I play. I've skilled about 8 mechs, if I want to play something different everyone I'm playing with has to wait, and that's not fun for them. Even if we all take a break at the same time to skill mechs then it's time that we're in the game but not having fun, so most of the time we just don't bother, which doesn't feel great.

To be clear, I'm not complaining about clicking a mouse or having to make decisions to get the best out of my mech. Customising my loadouts is a lot of fun and one of the main things that keeps me coming back to the game. I'd love to have a fun way of doing the same for quirks, but the skill tree does not feel fun. No one has to be told to 'suck it up' to customise their loadouts because it's something that 99% of players enjoy, which to me indicates that the skill tree has issues.

[Pokey McFlankerson]

Randomage, on 28 May 2017 - 05:52 AM, said:

It takes me 5-10 minutes to skill a mech, it would be less if I didn't feel like I have to get it right first time but if I want to change it later it costs XP and CBills (I do use the skills grid site and metamechs to help plan).

This causes two problems for me (and I realise this isn't the case for everyone):

1. That 5-10 minutes isn't fun. The comparison to maintenance is accurate, but maintenance isn't fun (again, for me). I enjoy changing builds because in short space of time I can have a completely different experience in a mech, my experience with the skill tree is the opposite.

2. It limits what mechs I play. I've skilled about 8 mechs, if I want to play something different everyone I'm playing with has to wait, and that's not fun for them. Even if we all take a break at the same time to skill mechs then it's time that we're in the game but not having fun, so most of the time we just don't bother, which doesn't feel great.

To be clear, I'm not complaining about clicking a mouse or having to make decisions to get the best out of my mech. Customising my loadouts is a lot of fun and one of the main things that keeps me coming back to the game. I'd love to have a fun way of doing the same for quirks, but the skill tree does not feel fun. No one has to be told to 'suck it up' to customise their loadouts because it's something that 99% of players enjoy, which to me indicates that the skill tree has issues.

Well put Randomage.. although creative, Commander's analogy wasn't apt here. We perform maintenance on our vehicles out of necessity, not pleasure.. we play MWO for pleasure, not necessity.

The tree does get easier to use with experience but it definitely makes changing builds more difficult.

Edited by Pokey McFlankerson, 28 May 2017 - 08:51 AM.

[Z3roZ3ro]

what have you done!!!!??!!!my mech feels like S..T NOW!!thnx!

[Chrome Hawk Xi]

Oh the pain... When you make a change, everyone will be upset.

There are so many reasons to be upset. But I can't say any of the complaints above bother me. In the past, I purchased mech packs because I always wanted the ones with pretty colors, not because I needed 3 mechs to level up the skill tree. Now, with all this change here are my complaints:

Because of the new system, I CAN'T FIND MY MODULES!!!
I am also peeved because I can now ONLY BUY ONE MECH TO LEVEL IT. How am I going to help support PGI after this new change?
I only need to build one or two mechs per variant now to fill out my drop decks. What turds!
There is so much more value to the original variants that I no longer need to buy a ton of omni pods to build the perfect mech. Just one, and stay true to the core omni-pod design and I get a serious bang for the buck. I love switching out OMNIPODS!!!
And here is the most annoying one of all. I get to change my settings and selections on this new skill tree, I am not locked in! Who wants that? Always having options to try something new that fits my game style is NOT what I wanted from a game, I ALWAYS preferred to be stuck with a skill tree that was unchanging, and one where I never bothered to unlock all the module types because there were so many! Give me back my straight jacket PGI!!!

[Pokey McFlankerson]

Ok the skill tree has grown on me.. what would bring it closer to perfection is the ability to save 'Tree-Templates.' So if for example one wants to change their build from energy to ballistic.. all they would have to do is mount their weapons and load their 'ballistic tree' template from a drop-down box.. saving tons of redundant, mind-numbing, head-shaking, clicking.

Edited by Pokey McFlankerson, 30 May 2017 - 07:06 AM.

[Dark_Horse]

Only been playing 2 years and over that time the devs had IMO achieved the toughest development challenge in any game, balance. Barring a few minor imbalances the game was playing great. The grind to skill 3 mechs on a new chassis was petty painful but by the second tier on a mech it was fun to play and rewarding.
Now not only is the experience of playing already elite mechs poorer, but I expected that new mechs from scratch would be improved. Not the case. For a new player I cannot see them sticking with the game. The issue lies with not just converting the previous skill system but by removing agility from engines, and wholesale removal of quirks. All that careful balancing work undone.

[Randomage]

Thunder Hawk Xi, on 29 May 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

Because of the new system, I CAN'T FIND MY MODULES!!!

This is probably my favourite thing about the skill tree, it saves me some time every time I switch mechs (that I've already skilled).

Thunder Hawk Xi, on 29 May 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

I am also peeved because I can now ONLY BUY ONE MECH TO LEVEL IT. How am I going to help support PGI after this new change?

This doesn't bother me too much because I like playing multiple variants and I've been playing for long enough that CBills aren't in short supply, but it's good for people who like buying one-offs and absolutely fantastic for newer players.

Thunder Hawk Xi, on 29 May 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

And here is the most annoying one of all. I get to change my settings and selections on this new skill tree, I am not locked in! Who wants that? Always having options to try something new that fits my game style is NOT what I wanted from a game, I ALWAYS preferred to be stuck with a skill tree that was unchanging, and one where I never bothered to unlock all the module types because there were so many! Give me back my straight jacket PGI!!!

I agree with you here too, an easily customisable skill tree is way better than what we had, and I was really looking forward to getting rid of the old system from the first time PGI said they wanted to replace it.

My issues aren't with the principle of the skill tree but the implementation. I don't want to revert to how things were before, I'd like the tree to be improved to the point where it's as uncontentious as the mechlab.

[DDcross]

Everyone said it all...waste of time skill tree, my mech is Weaker then before!

[Dollar Bill]

DAEDALOS513, on 16 May 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

boon·dog·gle (a.k.a Skill Tree)

noun
noun: boondoggle; plural noun: boondoggles

• work or activity that is wasteful or pointless but gives the appearance of having value.

verb


verb: boondoggle..

• waste money or time on unnecessary or questionable projects.

This has to be the best description of the Skill Maze yet. That word fits it like a glove.

P.S. this post just became my new signature.

[NomadicCanuck]

It has been a few weeks now and although I could make some observations, the only one that matters is that our unit's TS3 server has dried up of MWO pilots. I would be curious to see what the participation rates have been lately; How many games have been played? How many unique pilots? Has the skill tree shut the taps off overall or just in certain units?

I, for one, have played very few games myself since I don't have enough time to research, experiment, trial and perfect new builds that work for me.

Will the skill tree be significantly altered?

[Electron Junkie]

I hopped on today for the second time since I said "farkitall" and just to see if a little time away would make me see things in a different light.

Looked at my friends list... ALL OFFLINE
Looked at my unit list... 2 Online... The rest OFFLINE

Played 3 matches... Still feels like crap and the wait times for matches were horrible...

Sadly modules were so much better than what the skill tree currently is that 99% of the people I know here said "farkitall" too. The tree need to be turned to simple level up bars and more nodes need to be able to be assigned. The way it is now any change you make to a mech is a penalty to the wallet and play time.

[Caboose]

^^^ This! A thousand times this! Every chat service I subscribe too is overly silent since the patch.

[DAEDALOS513]

Here's my 3rd week update on the tree.. Just like most others players that stuck with the game through this frustra.. i mean transition, I did get accustomed to the change. Clicking through the trees requires little to no thought at this point and spec'ing a mech takes about 2 minutes in the UI plus 2 or 3 drops to fine-tune the nodes. That's fine, I can live with that, but did it increase our enjoyment level of the game? hmmmmm

Some mechs that were underperforming before have been made more viable now.. some that were viable before are now not worth playing.. and yet others that were great before are even better now.. I'd say this area is a wash. Although CLAN mechs clearly got a boost over IS so as far getting closer to a balanced state, I don't believe it achieved this. So the question remains, did the change actually increase enjoyment? I wonder..

LURMS. Now any mech with missile slots and the appropriate tree-quirks can be an effective lurmer.. did all this new-found lurming increase quality of the game? Something to ponder....

I know what I'm not enjoying.. the loss of playerbase.. I can feel it when trying to find a match (thank God for Oceanic)... certain times of the day scouting and group play is impossible. PGI, with such a small player base you have to realize the game cannot afford such drastic changes that will likely intimidate new players and frustrate a group of established players to the point of giving up on the game (or at the very least taking a leave of absence). For now, I would keep it simple... continue adding maps (at a much more rapid pace however), add more weapon variety, add new or keep tweaking existing game-modes, GET RID OF ALL THE BUGS AND MAKE MORE QUALITY OF LIFE IMPROVEMENTS. Stop shaking things up until the player base has at least doubled.

Honestly, if you stop to think about it, are you, as a player, really having more fun than you did before? On the fun scale I'd say it was more of a lateral improvement rather than vertical.

Bottom line, at this point. I was having the same amount or maybe even more fun with the game before the tree than now. I'm still dreading having to outfit my 100's of mechs.. and it's not about getting them to perform as well as before, it's about getting them to perform at their peak. This takes time.. time I had already invested before the tree.

Although you didn't 'ruin' our game as I stated when I first started this thread, but overall, I don't believe you increased our enjoyment of it... at best it remained the same.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 07 June 2017 - 03:29 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

DAEDALOS513, on 06 June 2017 - 05:13 PM, said:

Here's my 3rd week update on the tree.. Just like most others players that stuck with the game through this frustra.. i mean transition, I did get accustomed to the change. Clicking through the trees requires little to no thought at this point and spec'ing a mech takes about 2 minutes in the UI plus 2 or 3 drops to fine-tune the nodes. That's fine, I can live with that, but did it increase our enjoyment level of the game? hmmmmm

Although you didn't 'ruin' our game as I stated when I first started this thread, but overall, I don't believe you increased our enjoyment of it... at best it remained the same.

Wait until the energy weapon pass... Then new tech.

Enjoy almost certain need for some reskilling / testing all over again! YAY!

Agree, enjoyment has not gone up, not at all.

[D i r t]

DAEDALOS513, on 06 June 2017 - 05:13 PM, said:

Here's my 3rd week update on the tree.. Just like most others players that stuck with the game through this frustra.. i mean transition, I did get accustomed to the change. Clicking through the trees requires little to no thought at this point and spec'ing a mech takes about 2 minutes in the UI plus 2 or 3 drops to fine-tune the nodes. That's fine, I can live with that, but did it increase our enjoyment level of the game? hmmmmm

Some mechs that were underperforming before have been made more viable now.. some that were viable before are now not worth playing.. and yet others that were great before are even better now.. I'd say this area is a wash. Although CLAN mechs clearly got a boost over IS so as far getting closer to a balanced state, I don't believe it achieved this. So the question remains, did the change actually increase enjoyment? I wonder..

LURMS. Now any mech with missile slots and the appropriate tree-quirks can be an effective lurmer.. did all this new-found lurming increase quality of the game? Something to ponder....

I know what I'm not enjoying.. the loss of playerbase.. I can feel it when trying to find a match (thank God for Oceanic)... certain times of the day scouting and group play is impossible. PGI, with such a small player base you have to realize the game cannot afford such drastic changes that will likely intimidate new players and frustrate a group of established players to the point of giving up on the game (or at the very least taking a leave of absence). For now, I would keep it simple... continue adding maps (at a much more rapid pace however), add more weapon variety, add new or keep tweaking existing game-modes, GET RID OF ALL THE BUGS AND MAKE MORE QUALITY OF LIFE IMPROVEMENTS. Stop shaking things up until the player base has at least doubled.

Honestly, if you stop to think about it, are you, as a player, really having more fun than you did before? On the fun scale I'd say it was more of a lateral improvement rather than vertical.

Bottom line, at this point. I was having the same amount or maybe even more fun with the game before the tree than now. I'm still dreading having to outfit my 100's of mechs.. and it's not about getting them to perform as well as before, it's about getting them to perform at their peak. This takes time.. time I had already invested before the tree.

Although you didn't 'ruin' our game as I stated when I first started this thread, but overall, I don't believe you increased our enjoyment of it... at best it remained the same.

Nah brah, I uninstalled the game. Years of playing and hundreds of mechs. I'm done

[FrostyBurn]

i for one like the new tree. It gives me more to play with rather then just pass by. Skilling goes very fast like 30s. I dont see any significant drop in players during EU time. Fact is a lot of players complain about lack of features and when they get something like the skill tree all I see is compliant. Stuff like, too little payback, too high cost, too high cost for respect, too many clicks, not like something in another game or not like something I dreamt up.

If PGI would listen to everything they would best case don't do anything and worst case commit suicide. Sorry but it is white wine to complain about clicks in a game that's free to play. A LOT of players like the new tree even if its not perfect. But NOTHING is perfect so don't expect it.

Too bad you and your friends dont like the game and I hope you find enjoyment with something else.

[DAEDALOS513]

-Dirt-, on 07 June 2017 - 06:35 PM, said:

Nah brah, I uninstalled the game. Years of playing and hundreds of mechs. I'm done

Sad to see you go soldier.

[KarrRadane]

I am waiting for the patch that makes sense of the skill tree and puts it in some sort of reasonable order. It's a mess. Not played since staring at a seething mass of mess.

Sad as I do like the game but this is one backward step to far - a skill tree yes - but this one - no!

Edited by KarrRadane, 08 June 2017 - 12:15 PM.

[QuePan]

after spending this amount of time with it the one thing its done is encourage me not to buy any more mechs , with the cost of skilling , engines , heatsinks ,weapons, endo steel , Artimis , the cost is way to high still , ive leveled new mech from scratch and hell its EXPENSIVE not worth the time spent to earn the bills there is no difference in CB cost for earn XP or GXP use this has to be daunting for new players , im lucky , i have 99% of my mechs elite before the change which means those mechs are set . a new player is hosed , a bare bones unskilled mech will just have a bad day overall
the whole system just OVER QUIRKS everything . thats the sad truth