MechLab scratchbuilding
#561
Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:07 PM
Both?
Buy options to include the following (example only):
Mech option A
Mech option B
Mech option C
Stripped Mech
#562
Posted 25 March 2012 - 04:46 AM
I for one would LOVE the option of building a mech from the ground up.. but just prob. not a good idea. Varients AND possible field mods like the SRM6/AC-5 changes would be nice (at that time Citytech wasn't out yet so that was the only AC)
So after all that.. i would say Varients would count as "Stock" since they are usually the version of that mech that a specific House builds, and with that.. i would say stock mechs (even though i can be very picky about my mechs)
#563
Posted 25 March 2012 - 04:57 AM
Tweaks, on 17 December 2011 - 06:01 AM, said:
For example, you could buy (or acquire through salvage) a 'Mech of a certain model and variant, and decide you want to convert it into another variant. You would have to purchase a Refit Kit to go from your variant to the one you want, and depending on the amount of things that have to be modified, require a certain type of facility (field, maintenance or full blown factory). The installation of the Refit Kit would take a certain amount of time (from several hours, to days or weeks), and the quality of the resulting work would be subject to the skill level of your Tech crew.
If you think weeks or days is too long, then think about skill training in EVE Online... It's real time too, and everybody's fine with it. Training a level 5 skill can take more than a month of real time. I don't see why intensive refits in MWO should take less if they are that worth it.
Most people will probably prefer to buy stock 'Mechs and stick to their original design, and only apply small Refits (class A stuff, changing only one gun for example), but someone who can't afford a whole new 'Mech of a certain variant (because it's too rare), might buy a stock 'Mech with a basic variant, and then slowly apply refits to it until it matches the new variant he wants. The process would take weeks, but in the end, he'd have what he wants, and be that more attached to it.
The FrankenMech rules (which is what MW3-style 'Mechlab was all about really) are completely ridiculous and offer so much possibilities that it would be impossible for PGI to balance them all properly and avoid overpowered combos.
(edit) As Nik Van Rhijn pointed out, MWO's timeline will be real time (1:1, It is now December 17, 3048 in MWO), it makes absolutely no sense at all to allow for instant Class-F refits, which by the book, should take weeks to complete, and require a full blown factory grade facility. That point alone, just nullifies every claim that instant-refits would be feasible in MWO!
I'm with Tweaks on this one
Kensai the wandering warrior
#564
Posted 25 March 2012 - 05:21 AM
Edited by Strumtruppen, 25 March 2012 - 05:24 AM.
#565
Posted 25 March 2012 - 07:41 AM
When you get your salvage, that's when you can start to tinker and change things. Labbing always came after a mission, and sometimes it was necessary. You lost that PPC, but you have no replacements? Perhaps it's time to slap on that Large Laser you salvaged the last time...
And I think MechWarrior 2: Mercenaries had the best ideas.
- There are campaigns, and there are missions. Once you start a campaign that lasts several missions, you can't go elsewhere until it ends or you abort it (no jumping to Solaris VII halfway through.) Of course, there are those single missions you can take.
- You can only do customisation between campaigns if you are a Lone Wolf, like the player character in MechWarrior 2: Mercenaries. This does not occur in the other games, as some kind of MechLab (MFBs or whatever) is usually close by (usually the case if you are House military.)
- Customisations are charged per critical, so a few tweaks here and there cost much less than something involving switching to an XL Engine, Ferro-Fibrous Armour and Endo-Steel internal structure. Of course, Mercs and Lone Wolves are more likely to get such parts (since they can buy them) than House military forces (how are you going to salvage an XL engine?)
#566
Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:46 AM
The canon does not preclude customization or FrankenMechs.
What everyone is worried about is inevitable minmaxing leading to weird variants dominating the battlefields.
Three-word solution: Customization should cost.
I'm willing to bet the devs have figured this one out as well. We'll soon know. ;)
#567
Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:26 AM
- Engines and internal structures can't be altered without access to both a factory and a technical team with the knowhow. The internal structure consists of: the endoskeleton, the cockpit, life support, sensors, gyros, the engine, shoulders, upper/lower arm acutators, hip, upper/lower leg acutators and foot acutators.
- It should be possible for players to get rid of any weapon or equipment at any time that isn't part of the internal structure.
I'd create a layer on top of the TT style mechlab in same way we have modules for the cockpit;
- Mechs would need connectors for mounting different types of weapons/equipment (read the TRO3058 Blackjack entry for more info).
- A connector would essentially create a hardpoint of sorts for a specific weapon type. Some connectors would support multiple types of weapons.
- Connectors aren't all that common, you would need to either buy them from vendors that support your mech chassis or salvage them from other mechs.
- A Hunchback HBK-4P would mount 8 energy based connectors in its chassis, salvaging this type of mech would net you those 8 connectors for a Hunchback chassis if you gutted this machine
- Special equipment like ECM or BAP would need to be supported by your cockpit, this would require extra wiring and firmware upgrades for the cockpit. Again, this needs to be bought form special vendors or gutted from salvaged machines.
And to give you a taste of what vendors could alter what mech:
Atlas: Yori 'Mech Works, Defiance Industries, Independence Weaponry, Robinson Standard BattleWorks
Jenner: Diplan 'Mechyards, Luthien Armor Works
Dragon: Luthien Armor Works
You can't completely alter that captured Dragon you have without access to Luthien Armor Works, this would be rather difficult for a LC or FS player. Your only options would be scavenge captured Dragons or buy them from 3rd party traders for higher prices or switch to a faction mech and sidestep the problem altogether.
Later there would be omni mechs, those mechs would have all the connectors built in within the podspace.
This maybe a complete brainfart since I'm still not 100% sober while writing this.
#568
Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:39 AM
#569
Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:55 AM
Here is example of possible system that would of course need some changing...
You don't want the mech to be an omni mech, but also mechs were quite often customized throughout the novels. Maybe if you want a non omni mech to be customized in the pod system it would take much longer and be more expensive than customizing an omni mech.
some ideas, but mech lab needs to be in the game
#570
Posted 25 March 2012 - 02:42 PM
Weapon slots would be divided into two categories:
Weapon banks. Weapon banks can carry multiple weapons of the same general type (ex: lasers, missiles, or ballistic weapons), as in MW4. However, unlike in MW4, there would be restrictions. Specifically, rather than having restrictions based solely on the size of the bank, there would also be restrictions on the maximum weapon size that can be loaded into them and the maximum tonnage they can be loaded with. For example, you might be able to replace a bank of 4 medium lasers with a pair of medium pulse lasers or maybe even 8 small lasers, but you could not necessarily load a large laser or PPC into them, as the structure isn't necessarily there for them. Similarly, if you have a weapon bank with an AC/5 and an AC/10, you could replace that with a trio of AC/2s, a pair of AC/2s and an AC/5, an AC/10 and an AC/2, or, if the bank can support it, an AC/10 and two AC/2's. However, you could not load in an AC/20 or a Gauss rifle.
Weapon hardpoints. Weapon hardpoints would only be able to support one weapon apiece, equal in size or smaller than the original. Consequently, you might be able to mount a Gauss rifle, AC/10, or even an AC/2 (if you wanted) on the standard Hunchback in lieu of the AC/20, but you couldn't replace the AC/20 with a pair of AC/2s or something of that nature.
Summary. Have each weapon slot have a set of values associated with it: (1) maximum total tonnage, (2) maximum total crit slots occupied, (3) maximum number of crit slots allowed for individual weapons, (4) maximum number of weapons, (5) weapon type.
I think this would allow canon variants to be important (as they would allow for you to have different weapon slot arrangements on the same 'mech), ensure that boats of both the "only one weapon type" and "only huge weapons" varieties are largely impossible except on 'mech variants that were already boats in their base configurations (ex: Swayback), and still allow for a fair bit of customization, as Mechwarrior games should have.
#571
Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:11 PM
Usually at hull, in diferent size can mount specific size of weapons
Module points:
Usually on hands/extensions, can mount modules like in MWLL vid, which therfore provides hardpoints for weapons
Build-in weapons:
Like torso mounted missile banks, only ammotype can be midified
CryEngine works with models & bullet point of origin, so even if void, weapons must have models which must be placed on mech respecting customization
#572
Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:26 PM
#573
Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:35 AM
#574
Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:36 AM
And limits For an example... No mounting ac/20's into a missile point unless you can buy a a refit kit (I think someone mentioned that) But the refit kit would take say a couple of days to mount and that refit kit wouldnt let you load missiles in it but no ac's...(Not too sure about the refit kit idea overall.
Overall I think the Mech warrior 4 set weapon type slot was overall the best way to do it . But it just need time delays and and refit charges... The more upgrades you do at once the longer it takes but cheaper than doing it one by one... If you do it one by one it could be like 5% faster but cost about 10% more... Makes you decide how you want to manage your time and credits.
Also in regards to salvage It should probably be set so that the person who inflicts the most damage gets first call on it.. Then the person who got the kill gets second call and after that it goes into a team bid for salvage maybe.. And each mech bay should have limited storage for parts/mechs until you upgrade either. Then It makes you consider what you need instead of just hoarding everything you can.
saFactor Wolfbite
#575
Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:47 AM
Wolfbite, on 27 March 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:
And limits For an example... No mounting ac/20's into a missile point unless you can buy a a refit kit (I think someone mentioned that) But the refit kit would take say a couple of days to mount and that refit kit wouldnt let you load missiles in it but no ac's...(Not too sure about the refit kit idea overall.
AC/20 is classified as Super-Heavy(assault) weapon, which require reinforced assault hardpoint/module, duno mech that got such thing in shoulder extension where missiles are used to be
#576
Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:24 AM
#577
Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:50 AM
Javelin156, on 27 March 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:
I don't understand how not allowing minmaxing and laserboating turns this into an arcade game. If you want to simulate the BattleTech universe, you as a MechWarrior are not going to be able to walk into a factory with a blueprint and say "build this."
I'd rather not see this game turned into Armored Core: Slow, Hot, & Heavy Edition.
#578
Posted 27 March 2012 - 09:10 AM
#579
Posted 27 March 2012 - 09:20 AM
This is what you tabletop sim guys envision when thinking of MW4:
This what us MW4 players (I consider middle of the road) envision when thinking of tabletop Battletech:
I pray to God they develop this thing with some balance...
#580
Posted 27 March 2012 - 09:56 AM
Dont reinact seens from platoon with Charlie Sheen!
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