655 replies to this topic

[IHateAtlas]

...

Both?

Buy options to include the following (example only):

Mech option A
Mech option B
Mech option C
Stripped Mech

[Temu]

Cannon had field modifications either "common" tricks such as taking out a SRM 6, mounting 6 small lasers in the missile ports and HS where the ammo was, or a AC-5 for a Large laser and more HS. Even then they would sometimes have problems with actuators or armor plate with anything more drastic then that. Any modifications beyond that was done in House Engineering labs. (Banshee S is the ultimate house mod) But to build a Mech from scratch if you have enough credits.. you were looking at massive costs and time. A company that builds ONE Base mech frame (Example: Bandersnatch) with choice of weapons takes 10 months to assemble from a crew that specializes in exactly that.

I for one would LOVE the option of building a mech from the ground up.. but just prob. not a good idea. Varients AND possible field mods like the SRM6/AC-5 changes would be nice (at that time Citytech wasn't out yet so that was the only AC)

So after all that.. i would say Varients would count as "Stock" since they are usually the version of that mech that a specific House builds, and with that.. i would say stock mechs (even though i can be very picky about my mechs)

[Kensaisama]

Tweaks, on 17 December 2011 - 06:01 AM, said:

Precisely. The Strategic Operations rulebook details the rules that I find acceptable to include in MWO, which are the Refit Kit and Customizations rules (which are applied like a refit kit). That system could be implemented very well in the F2P model of MWO (PGI would create and release Refit Kits, thus controlling what can be customized to maintain balance, but still have the option to offer a lot of variety).

For example, you could buy (or acquire through salvage) a 'Mech of a certain model and variant, and decide you want to convert it into another variant. You would have to purchase a Refit Kit to go from your variant to the one you want, and depending on the amount of things that have to be modified, require a certain type of facility (field, maintenance or full blown factory). The installation of the Refit Kit would take a certain amount of time (from several hours, to days or weeks), and the quality of the resulting work would be subject to the skill level of your Tech crew.

If you think weeks or days is too long, then think about skill training in EVE Online... It's real time too, and everybody's fine with it. Training a level 5 skill can take more than a month of real time. I don't see why intensive refits in MWO should take less if they are that worth it.

Most people will probably prefer to buy stock 'Mechs and stick to their original design, and only apply small Refits (class A stuff, changing only one gun for example), but someone who can't afford a whole new 'Mech of a certain variant (because it's too rare), might buy a stock 'Mech with a basic variant, and then slowly apply refits to it until it matches the new variant he wants. The process would take weeks, but in the end, he'd have what he wants, and be that more attached to it.

The FrankenMech rules (which is what MW3-style 'Mechlab was all about really) are completely ridiculous and offer so much possibilities that it would be impossible for PGI to balance them all properly and avoid overpowered combos.

(edit) As Nik Van Rhijn pointed out, MWO's timeline will be real time (1:1, It is now December 17, 3048 in MWO), it makes absolutely no sense at all to allow for instant Class-F refits, which by the book, should take weeks to complete, and require a full blown factory grade facility. That point alone, just nullifies every claim that instant-refits would be feasible in MWO!

I'm with Tweaks on this one

Kensai the wandering warrior

[Strumtruppen]

MechLab is half the game for me. i enjoy custom equiping my mechs cause it allows me to fouces on the way i want to fight and where i want to fight. hey look i have two AC 10's and a puma thats looking pretty crappy right now i would really enjoy customizing my mechs from the get-go

Edited by Strumtruppen, 25 March 2012 - 05:24 AM.

[Lancehead]

I think we should start with stock Mechs, like we did in every MechWarrior game I can think of.

When you get your salvage, that's when you can start to tinker and change things. Labbing always came after a mission, and sometimes it was necessary. You lost that PPC, but you have no replacements? Perhaps it's time to slap on that Large Laser you salvaged the last time...

And I think MechWarrior 2: Mercenaries had the best ideas.

- There are campaigns, and there are missions. Once you start a campaign that lasts several missions, you can't go elsewhere until it ends or you abort it (no jumping to Solaris VII halfway through.) Of course, there are those single missions you can take.

- You can only do customisation between campaigns if you are a Lone Wolf, like the player character in MechWarrior 2: Mercenaries. This does not occur in the other games, as some kind of MechLab (MFBs or whatever) is usually close by (usually the case if you are House military.)

- Customisations are charged per critical, so a few tweaks here and there cost much less than something involving switching to an XL Engine, Ferro-Fibrous Armour and Endo-Steel internal structure. Of course, Mercs and Lone Wolves are more likely to get such parts (since they can buy them) than House military forces (how are you going to salvage an XL engine?)

[Paskow]

I guess it is a given that we are going to have customization in some form.
The canon does not preclude customization or FrankenMechs.
What everyone is worried about is inevitable minmaxing leading to weird variants dominating the battlefields.

Three-word solution: Customization should cost.

I'm willing to bet the devs have figured this one out as well. We'll soon know. ;)

[Stormwolf]

I'd personally like to see a TT mechlab with limitations:
- Engines and internal structures can't be altered without access to both a factory and a technical team with the knowhow. The internal structure consists of: the endoskeleton, the cockpit, life support, sensors, gyros, the engine, shoulders, upper/lower arm acutators, hip, upper/lower leg acutators and foot acutators.
- It should be possible for players to get rid of any weapon or equipment at any time that isn't part of the internal structure.

I'd create a layer on top of the TT style mechlab in same way we have modules for the cockpit;
- Mechs would need connectors for mounting different types of weapons/equipment (read the TRO3058 Blackjack entry for more info).
- A connector would essentially create a hardpoint of sorts for a specific weapon type. Some connectors would support multiple types of weapons.
- Connectors aren't all that common, you would need to either buy them from vendors that support your mech chassis or salvage them from other mechs.
- A Hunchback HBK-4P would mount 8 energy based connectors in its chassis, salvaging this type of mech would net you those 8 connectors for a Hunchback chassis if you gutted this machine
- Special equipment like ECM or BAP would need to be supported by your cockpit, this would require extra wiring and firmware upgrades for the cockpit. Again, this needs to be bought form special vendors or gutted from salvaged machines.

And to give you a taste of what vendors could alter what mech:
Atlas: Yori 'Mech Works, Defiance Industries, Independence Weaponry, Robinson Standard BattleWorks
Jenner: Diplan 'Mechyards, Luthien Armor Works
Dragon: Luthien Armor Works

You can't completely alter that captured Dragon you have without access to Luthien Armor Works, this would be rather difficult for a LC or FS player. Your only options would be scavenge captured Dragons or buy them from 3rd party traders for higher prices or switch to a faction mech and sidestep the problem altogether.

Later there would be omni mechs, those mechs would have all the connectors built in within the podspace.


This maybe a complete brainfart since I'm still not 100% sober while writing this.

[Toothman]

They've already said they are using a hardpoint system which will limit custom builds right there. As for the giant slow monster alpha strike mechs. You just out manuver them and shoot them in the back. At the absolute worst they'll take one person with them.

[BattleBadger]

As long as people don't put long toms and ride around long tomming everyone like in mw4merc online, i would love a mechlab. One of biggest problems with mwll was having no mech lab. I would like to be able to take say a raven variant, get rid of narc and put on some extra armor.

Here is example of possible system that would of course need some changing...


You don't want the mech to be an omni mech, but also mechs were quite often customized throughout the novels. Maybe if you want a non omni mech to be customized in the pod system it would take much longer and be more expensive than customizing an omni mech.

some ideas, but mech lab needs to be in the game

[Pyotr]

What I would like to see from both a balance and gameplay perspective would be something slightly more restrictive than MW4's system for weapons and engines, but would also be notably less restrictive for special equipment (ex: BAPs, ECMs, AMS, etc.).

Weapon slots would be divided into two categories:

Weapon banks. Weapon banks can carry multiple weapons of the same general type (ex: lasers, missiles, or ballistic weapons), as in MW4. However, unlike in MW4, there would be restrictions. Specifically, rather than having restrictions based solely on the size of the bank, there would also be restrictions on the maximum weapon size that can be loaded into them and the maximum tonnage they can be loaded with. For example, you might be able to replace a bank of 4 medium lasers with a pair of medium pulse lasers or maybe even 8 small lasers, but you could not necessarily load a large laser or PPC into them, as the structure isn't necessarily there for them. Similarly, if you have a weapon bank with an AC/5 and an AC/10, you could replace that with a trio of AC/2s, a pair of AC/2s and an AC/5, an AC/10 and an AC/2, or, if the bank can support it, an AC/10 and two AC/2's. However, you could not load in an AC/20 or a Gauss rifle.

Weapon hardpoints. Weapon hardpoints would only be able to support one weapon apiece, equal in size or smaller than the original. Consequently, you might be able to mount a Gauss rifle, AC/10, or even an AC/2 (if you wanted) on the standard Hunchback in lieu of the AC/20, but you couldn't replace the AC/20 with a pair of AC/2s or something of that nature.

Summary. Have each weapon slot have a set of values associated with it: (1) maximum total tonnage, (2) maximum total crit slots occupied, (3) maximum number of crit slots allowed for individual weapons, (4) maximum number of weapons, (5) weapon type.

I think this would allow canon variants to be important (as they would allow for you to have different weapon slot arrangements on the same 'mech), ensure that boats of both the "only one weapon type" and "only huge weapons" varieties are largely impossible except on 'mech variants that were already boats in their base configurations (ex: Swayback), and still allow for a fair bit of customization, as Mechwarrior games should have.

[Steel Talon]

Hardpoints:
Usually at hull, in diferent size can mount specific size of weapons
Module points:
Usually on hands/extensions, can mount modules like in MWLL vid, which therfore provides hardpoints for weapons
Build-in weapons:
Like torso mounted missile banks, only ammotype can be midified

CryEngine works with models & bullet point of origin, so even if void, weapons must have models which must be placed on mech respecting customization

[Rigamortice]

MY opinion I say both really, let it be a choice, purchase a battle-frame bare no armorments or with. this way for the more seasoned player scratch build is nice and pre-made for those who are not ready for that.

[Kifferson von doober]

How about frankenmechs being possible but more prone to component failure due to juryrigging, sounds like a decent compromise to me!

[Wolfbite]

I like the Idea of a refit time combined with cost...

And limits For an example... No mounting ac/20's into a missile point unless you can buy a a refit kit (I think someone mentioned that) But the refit kit would take say a couple of days to mount and that refit kit wouldnt let you load missiles in it but no ac's...(Not too sure about the refit kit idea overall.

Overall I think the Mech warrior 4 set weapon type slot was overall the best way to do it . But it just need time delays and and refit charges... The more upgrades you do at once the longer it takes but cheaper than doing it one by one... If you do it one by one it could be like 5% faster but cost about 10% more... Makes you decide how you want to manage your time and credits.

Also in regards to salvage It should probably be set so that the person who inflicts the most damage gets first call on it.. Then the person who got the kill gets second call and after that it goes into a team bid for salvage maybe.. And each mech bay should have limited storage for parts/mechs until you upgrade either. Then It makes you consider what you need instead of just hoarding everything you can.

saFactor Wolfbite

[Steel Talon]

Wolfbite, on 27 March 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

I like the Idea of a refit time combined with cost...

And limits For an example... No mounting ac/20's into a missile point unless you can buy a a refit kit (I think someone mentioned that) But the refit kit would take say a couple of days to mount and that refit kit wouldnt let you load missiles in it but no ac's...(Not too sure about the refit kit idea overall.

AC/20 is classified as Super-Heavy(assault) weapon, which require reinforced assault hardpoint/module, duno mech that got such thing in shoulder extension where missiles are used to be

[Javelin156]

It makes me sad that everyone is voting against scratch building. This is what seperates mechwarrior from simulation/strategy to first person arcade shooter which mechwarrior 4 really was for the most part.

[syngyne]

Javelin156, on 27 March 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

It makes me sad that everyone is voting against scratch building. This is what seperates mechwarrior from simulation/strategy to first person arcade shooter which mechwarrior 4 really was for the most part.

I don't understand how not allowing minmaxing and laserboating turns this into an arcade game. If you want to simulate the BattleTech universe, you as a MechWarrior are not going to be able to walk into a factory with a blueprint and say "build this."

I'd rather not see this game turned into Armored Core: Slow, Hot, & Heavy Edition.

[Javelin156]

Yes you are. Thats what battletech is all about. better have the c-bills though.

[OnLashoc]

From one extreme to the other..

This is what you tabletop sim guys envision when thinking of MW4:




This what us MW4 players (I consider middle of the road) envision when thinking of tabletop Battletech:




I pray to God they develop this thing with some balance...

[Javelin156]

This is how i feel about MW4.



Dont reinact seens from platoon with Charlie Sheen!