655 replies to this topic

[Kristov Kerensky]

Halfinax..go hit the Sarna wiki..look up the Catapult specifically...on second thought..here..

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Catapult

Please look over the variants listed..those are all stock configs. Please take note of the fact that there IS a Catapult without missiles at all, the CPLT-K2 variant..with further variations of THAT config..which was created prior to 3040 I might add.

So..anyone ELSE who's never played anything but MW4/MA want to tell us about how certain Mechs ONLY used certain weapons? Odds are..you'll be wrong, especially if you are just experienced with MW4/MA, because those games tend to be Clan heavy on Mechs or, even worse, using post Clan Invasion refits of the Inner Sphere Mechs. There's a lot of Mechs we won't see in MWO when it comes out because..they don't EXIST in the Inner Sphere yet. Anything Clan..not gonna be there. Anything with an Omni point of any sort..not gonna be there. Anything designed/fielded after 3050..not gonna be there. BTW, that's a big chunk of the list in MW4, and most of the list in MA..actually..there's 3 Mechs in the MA list that would be around in 3049..Atlas, Catapult and Ymir..and they will not have the weapons you see in MA either.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page
Check it out, see what Mechs you loved in MW4 or MA and see who made them and when..dates can be found in the TRO/book they were introduced in, bottom of the Mech's page, references section.

It's actually pretty rare to see a Mech with a specific single function, and those rare exceptions are like the Hatchetman..a Mech designed specifically for melee combat. They ALWAYS have that melee weapon on them..but everything else on them can be and often is, changed for different situations, House specific alterations(Kurita's version uses a katana, the hatchet isn't a weapon a Samurai would use..seriously, Kurita spent years getting a katana designed and built before their people would use the Mech!), or just upgrades due to new tech being availible.
*edit*
Forgot to add..people only experienced with MW4/MA, specifically any Mech with an Omnipod..you DO realize that the point of the Omnipods was to be able to swap out the weapons packages, and sometimes the electronics, on a Clan Mech quickly(a few hours max) in the field without requiring a full workshop to refit a Mech for combat specific alterations..right? That was one of the reasons the Inner Sphere got their collective ***** kicked during the initial stages of the Invasion, Clan tactics were to send some Mechs out for the enemy to see carrying specific weapons..then return to base and SWAP those weapons for something else so the enemy would be unprepared. THAT was something the Inner Sphere couldn't do, swap out the complete weapon load on a Mech in a matter of a few hours..in the field! Omnipods can also include adding/removing jump jets btw.

*edit* realized I'd missed the CPLT in MA..duh..

Edited by Kristov Kerensky, 21 December 2011 - 04:08 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Halfinax, on 21 December 2011 - 02:08 AM, said:

I don't see the option I want. I agree with Gorith and many other posters in here. At most I want to see very limited customization. I can see having the ability to further customize a 'Mech within it's role, but being able to customize it to such an absurd extent (as in previous SP titles) that it is being used well outside of it's intended role just seems wrong. At that point the 'Mech is nothing more than aesthetic in purpose, and that just doesn't work for me on many levels. I want a Catapult to be a FS 'Mech not just a aesthetic choice, and the same goes for the Atlas, Jenner, Hunchback, Dragon, etc. It should remain within it's principle role if it can be player customized and isn't an OmniMech.

I don't mind if a 'Mech is highly specialized within it's role on the battlefield, but it does bother me if it is completely re-purposed.

To add to the good point on the Catapult, Hunchbacks that remove their AC20 and replace it with a variety of other weapons is given the nickname "Swayback". Lot's of Mechs have a prefab weapons load that doesn't fit the "intended role" of the original. Take the Valkyrie The original had a Large Laser and a small LRM or medium SRM rack. That would have given the Mech a different mission profile all together.

So which configuration should a player be held to? Should all Centurions have an AC10 (standard) or the Large Laser of House Liao or maybe everyone should have the option to to use Kai Allard-Liao's Yen-Lo-Wang. There are at least 3 versions of almost every Mech in the 3025 era. Which one should we be stuck with?

[Brakkyn]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 December 2011 - 04:04 AM, said:

To add to the good point on the Catapult, Hunchbacks that remove their AC20 and replace it with a variety of other weapons is given the nickname "Swayback". Lot's of Mechs have a prefab weapons load that doesn't fit the "intended role" of the original. Take the Valkyrie The original had a Large Laser and a small LRM or medium SRM rack. That would have given the Mech a different mission profile all together.

So which configuration should a player be held to? Should all Centurions have an AC10 (standard) or the Large Laser of House Liao or maybe everyone should have the option to to use Kai Allard-Liao's Yen-Lo-Wang. There are at least 3 versions of almost every Mech in the 3025 era. Which one should we be stuck with?

I don't have a problem with a Medium Laser-toting Hunchback, nor would I have a problem with a Capellan-specific Centurion. As long as it would logically appear in the era and it was a legitimate, canonical variant that you could purchase or refit, not something someone threw together.

Yen-Lo-Wang is a different story--it was specific to an individual, just like Widowmaker and Prometheus.

[Tweaks]

Wolvers, on 21 December 2011 - 12:45 AM, said:

By looking at it's guns, how exactly will the guns change their look then in full customization? If they keep each gun looking exactly the same no matter what mech it's on, then you can still have this thrill of recognizing, the basic design of the mech also wouldn't change.

Wolvers, on 21 December 2011 - 12:45 AM, said:

Well you could know what weapons if the weapon designs remained constant regardless of the mech it's attached to. As for armour, I'm sure they could do something slightly different to show that a mech might be using reflective or ballistic or hardened armour. Knowing how the internals have changed is neither here nor there for me. As for the where to hit to do the most damage, well, I think if anything, that's an argument for customization, so we get to see more base mech designs out there, rather than the same looking mechs all over the place.

Identifying a weapon from far away is far more difficult. You know what I meant, don't pretend you think it's exactly the same thing.

Wolvers, on 21 December 2011 - 12:45 AM, said:

Yes and they want MechWarrior Online to be as close to the TT as possible, part of that is being able to customize.

I agree for some customization, with Refit Kits and limited options. Not full-blown MW4-style customization (or worse, MW3-style). Don't forget OmniMechs will not be part of MWO until at least 2013 (or 3050 MWO time, when the clans invade). Until then, hot-swappable pods just didn't exist.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Given the inherent advantage of lasers (and PPC's) over ballistics and missiles why would anyone use anything else? Especially given the linmited ammo and very real danger of ammo explosions? I like the Hunchback as an urban mech. It only has 5 shots for It's AC20 so it initially deals 33 damage, dropping to 13 once it's ammo is exhausted. If you optimise it for short range in 3049 tech with just medium lasers and double heatsinks you get this.
Swayback Mk 2

Mass: 50 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-D
Production Year: 3049
Cost: 3,712,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,258

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 200 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
10 Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 83 points 5.00
Engine: Fusion Engine 200 8.50
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 15(30) 5.00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 LA, 1 RA
Gyro: Standard 2.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 169 9.50
Armor Locations: 1 HD, 2 CT, 2 LA, 5 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 16 24
Center Torso (rear) 8
L/R Torso 12 18
L/R Torso (rear) 6
L/R Arm 8 16
L/R Leg 12 24

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Medium Lasers RT 15 5 5.00
5 Medium Lasers LT 15 5 5.00
Free Critical Slots: 2

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 6 Points: 13
4 5 5 0 0 2 0 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SOA

It can do 50 points of damage, alternating with 45 all day long with no risk of ammo explosions. plus no leading moving targets etc.
Why. if you wanted a Hunchback type mech would you use anything else?

[Ferrox]

Why can't we do it both!

Giving the palyer the option of buying a stock mech with everything pre installd for more money or buying only a chassis without everything for less money. With everything customisable it should't be that hard.

And about the thing with overpowerd min/max mechs.
Everyone will have fight with stock mechs to get the money for that.

Edited by Ferrox, 01 January 2012 - 03:29 PM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Because people want to win, particularly in PvP, so why would you not min/max where you can?

[MaddMaxx]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 21 December 2011 - 05:45 AM, said:

Because people want to win, particularly in PvP, so why would you not min/max where you can?

Isn't that the point most who wish for less customization use as the reason? Allowing full custom negates 75% of all weapons and other builds. Min/Max wins out because in order to compete you also have to have a min/max Lance. Tactics go out the window if you can get 1 or 2 shotted from long ranges. That leaves only hiding and pop-tarting if your driving anything that can't close the distance quickly.

It has been seen before and will become the norm again. It is human nature to play Whack - a - Mole if the Dev allow it. It has been far to long to go back there and if it is allowed it may spell then end for the franchise once and for all.

That may be Doom-Sayer type rhetoric but we have ONE more shot here folks. Better get it right this time out. I have faith in the Dev and look forward to what they provide the MW Community going forward.

P.S. It is Wednesday right? Woohoo!

Edited by MaddMaxx, 21 December 2011 - 06:31 AM.

[Ghost73]

MaddMaxx, on 21 December 2011 - 06:29 AM, said:

Isn't that the point most who wish for less customization use as the reason? Allowing full custom negates 75% of all weapons and other builds. Min/Max wins out because in order to compete you also have to have a min/max Lance. Tactics go out the window if you can get 1 or 2 shotted from long ranges. That leaves only hiding and pop-tarting if your driving anything that can't close the distance quickly.

It has been seen before and will become the norm again. It is human nature to play Whack - a - Mole if the Dev allow it. It has been far to long to go back there and if it is allowed it may spell then end for the franchise once and for all.

That may be Doom-Sayer type rhetoric but we have ONE more shot here folks. Better get it right this time out. I have faith in the Dev and look forward to what they provide the MW Community going forward.

I feel that full customization will not break the game as long as the customizations are balanced. That means that the all-rounder builds are just as viable as the min/max builds. Nothing wrong with min/maxed mechs as long as they aren't overpowered.

As a latecomer to the BT Universe, the Mechlab has always been an integral part of Mechwarrior games for me. The problem is not with the concept of a Mechlab, but the execution. There's nothing wrong with customizing your mech the way you want it. It is the designer's fault if they haven't taken into account the customizations that players can create, but I have confidence in the people at PGI.

Edited by Ghost73, 21 December 2011 - 09:38 AM.

[guardiandashi]

with the hunchback only having 5 "shots" for its ac20 that is only 1 specific varient that has that limitation

standard 3025 TRO hunchback the HBK-4G 50 tons total, 13 std heat sinks (it pays for the 3 additional ones) 10 tons of armor 1 ac20 @ 14 tons, 2 tons of ac20 ammo (10 rounds) 2 medium lasers @ 1 ton ea 1 small laser @ 0.5 tons

the "upgraded" HBK-5M huinchback is also 50 tons, 13DHS (double heat sinks for a total of 26 heat dissipation) 10 tons of armor, 1 ac20 @ 14 tons, 1 ton of ac20 ammo, CASE (Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment, used to minimize the damage if the ammo detonates inside the mech) 0.5 tons 2 medium lasers @ 1 ton each, and the small laser was "upgraded" to a small pulse laser 1 ton

as can be seen the differences between the units are VERY small and can actually be done (other than the case) as a maintenance level refit or less. the problem is that while in theory the upgrade is excelent:
1 it increases survibability (CASE)
2 it improves the heat dissipation rates
3 it upgrades the small laser to a small pulse laser

in actuality it is a fair to poor upgrade
1 it trades fully 1/2 the ammo supply for the case and small laser to small pulse laser "upgrade"
2 for the weight spent on the small pulse laser it could mount a 3rd medium laser
3 it doubles the heat dissipation 13 to 26 ... for a design that can at most generate 21 heat if it runs and fires "everything" meaning 2 DHS are never going to be used unless someone hits it with infernos or something.

in summary a simple and effective "refit" that would aleviate the limited ammunition issue without adverse side effects, would be to remove 2 DHS, (bringing the total to 11/22 and replace them with 2 additional tons of ac ammo, bring it up to a total of 15 "shots"

[Phades]

guardiandashi, on 21 December 2011 - 09:39 AM, said:

with the hunchback only having 5 "shots" for its ac20 that is only 1 specific varient that has that limitation

standard 3025 TRO hunchback the HBK-4G 50 tons total, 13 std heat sinks (it pays for the 3 additional ones) 10 tons of armor 1 ac20 @ 14 tons, 2 tons of ac20 ammo (10 rounds) 2 medium lasers @ 1 ton ea 1 small laser @ 0.5 tons

the "upgraded" HBK-5M huinchback is also 50 tons, 13DHS (double heat sinks for a total of 26 heat dissipation) 10 tons of armor, 1 ac20 @ 14 tons, 1 ton of ac20 ammo, CASE (Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment, used to minimize the damage if the ammo detonates inside the mech) 0.5 tons 2 medium lasers @ 1 ton each, and the small laser was "upgraded" to a small pulse laser 1 ton

as can be seen the differences between the units are VERY small and can actually be done (other than the case) as a maintenance level refit or less. the problem is that while in theory the upgrade is excelent:
1 it increases survibability (CASE)
2 it improves the heat dissipation rates
3 it upgrades the small laser to a small pulse laser

in actuality it is a fair to poor upgrade
1 it trades fully 1/2 the ammo supply for the case and small laser to small pulse laser "upgrade"
2 for the weight spent on the small pulse laser it could mount a 3rd medium laser
3 it doubles the heat dissipation 13 to 26 ... for a design that can at most generate 21 heat if it runs and fires "everything" meaning 2 DHS are never going to be used unless someone hits it with infernos or something.

in summary a simple and effective "refit" that would aleviate the limited ammunition issue without adverse side effects, would be to remove 2 DHS, (bringing the total to 11/22 and replace them with 2 additional tons of ac ammo, bring it up to a total of 15 "shots"

Meh, the hunchie loses to the nova every single time except possibly the 5p variant while employing coordinated strikes. That is the machine he was trying to reverse engineer. Other custom designs can beat out what he was listing, especially ones that force heat on the opponent limiting return fire or up time or potential mutually assured destruction.

Two camps really. Either you reverse engineer the superior design, come up with a unique counter, or lock in the tech at 3025 and see folks pick the same series of chassis for specific purposes over and over again.

[MaddMaxx]

guardiandashi, on 21 December 2011 - 09:39 AM, said:

with the hunchback only having 5 "shots" for its ac20 that is only 1 specific varient that has that limitation

standard 3025 TRO hunchback the HBK-4G 50 tons total, 13 std heat sinks (it pays for the 3 additional ones) 10 tons of armor 1 ac20 @ 14 tons, 2 tons of ac20 ammo (10 rounds) 2 medium lasers @ 1 ton ea 1 small laser @ 0.5 tons

the "upgraded" HBK-5M huinchback is also 50 tons, 13DHS (double heat sinks for a total of 26 heat dissipation) 10 tons of armor, 1 ac20 @ 14 tons, 1 ton of ac20 ammo, CASE (Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment, used to minimize the damage if the ammo detonates inside the mech) 0.5 tons 2 medium lasers @ 1 ton each, and the small laser was "upgraded" to a small pulse laser 1 ton

as can be seen the differences between the units are VERY small and can actually be done (other than the case) as a maintenance level refit or less. the problem is that while in theory the upgrade is excelent:
1 it increases survibability (CASE)
2 it improves the heat dissipation rates
3 it upgrades the small laser to a small pulse laser

in actuality it is a fair to poor upgrade
1 it trades fully 1/2 the ammo supply for the case and small laser to small pulse laser "upgrade"
2 for the weight spent on the small pulse laser it could mount a 3rd medium laser
3 it doubles the heat dissipation 13 to 26 ... for a design that can at most generate 21 heat if it runs and fires "everything" meaning 2 DHS are never going to be used unless someone hits it with infernos or something.

in summary a simple and effective "refit" that would aleviate the limited ammunition issue without adverse side effects, would be to remove 2 DHS, (bringing the total to 11/22 and replace them with 2 additional tons of ac ammo, bring it up to a total of 15 "shots"

And to be fair we could even allow that level of customization by default as your post so nicely points out that variant deals with one basic drawback of the original. Lack of ammo and possible critical disasters.

Ideally, the Dev will make it such that if you do have an ammo based weapon CASE will be absolutely required (or die a horrible ending ) and the same would goes for the other weapon types.

Some formula like - Max. Heat generated - HS required (built in) with no and if's or buts always = ZERO Instant limitations but still flexible as all get out.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 21 December 2011 - 09:59 AM.

[Wolvers]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 21 December 2011 - 02:17 AM, said:

@Wolvers "Yes and they want MechWarrior Online to be as close to the TT as possible, part of that is being able to customize." Unfortunately there is a problem. In the TT there was a price to all repairs and customisation in the TT apart from cost and that was time. The same rules that people want to use to legitamise doing anything they want to time, quite a lot to effectively build a new mech, let alone the time taken to deliver it from the factory to wherever you are. This, quite rightly, is declared unaceptable in a PC game online. What I want to know is, what is going to replace it? For the newcomers to BT/MW it is not a problem, they don't "know" that you can build a new mech in a few minutes in the "Mechlab" (itself a non canon creation for gaming convenience) so they will accept whatever system is in place. Just as they will accept the "stock" designs and variants that exist in the timeframe. As time is unacceptable I therefore ask again - what is going to replace it?

What would replace time in customization? increase the cost, make it double what it is in the TT. However, I don't see why time couldn't be a factor in customization anyway. If it takes time, then people should't customize out their mechs unless they have another they can use in the mean time. I can't imagine only having 1 mech anyway, especially if everyone expects to have to manage repairs etc. If you're mech is completely destroyed in 1 battle, you'll have to wait as well, unless you have spare mechs. I don't see how time in customization will then be a huge issue.

[Wolvers]

Tweaks, on 21 December 2011 - 04:59 AM, said:

Identifying a weapon from far away is far more difficult. You know what I meant, don't pretend you think it's exactly the same thing.

Yes identifying a weapon from far away would be more difficult, but this is what you said in a prior post.

Tweaks, on 20 December 2011 - 05:20 AM, said:

To me, learning all the different 'Mechs and learning how to recognize the variants by looking at its guns was a thrill.

I wasn't talking about ranges or anything, I was specifically responding to this. I don't see how guns would change in customization, therefore you will still be able to recognize them. Range wasn't a problem when you were talking about the thrill of recognizing variants by looking at their guns.

Tweaks, on 21 December 2011 - 04:59 AM, said:

I agree for some customization, with Refit Kits and limited options. Not full-blown MW4-style customization (or worse, MW3-style). Don't forget OmniMechs will not be part of MWO until at least 2013 (or 3050 MWO time, when the clans invade). Until then, hot-swappable pods just didn't exist.

I'm not talking about Omni's, I'm not expecting to be able to customize a mech just before a battle and then customize it again for the next one. I would expect some sort of time factor involved and/or huge cost. Unlike prior MW games where you could chop and change weapon configs, armour, engine size etc at a whim.

Edited by Wolvers, 21 December 2011 - 12:38 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

I have a question for the people wanting no or extremely limited customization, which MW games did you play?

I ask this because of the statements I'm seeing as to why you don't want customization..boating..pop tarting..single alpha's taking out Mechs(but I've yet to see WHAT is doing that Alpha and WHAT is being cored). That's all stuff we did NOT see until MW4..well..we did see boats..usually for C combats..league combats using a specific weapon class, C1, energy, was pretty common, laser boats..totally useless outside of that specific league combat btw. The 'hardpoint' system in MW4 does nothing but promote boating, just look at it, it's obvious. I build configs in MW4 that I'd never use in BTech or any of the previous MW titles, pure suicide to use them. But in MW4..they not only work, they work really well. MW4 doesn't use the BTech rules for anything but terminology, that's about it. It's one step removed from the simplicity of MA..go figure right? Next version of the game that MS did was MA..guess MW4 was too complicated for their target audience. Take that however you want btw, MA was a fun little arcade game with giant stompy robots, but it was about BTech related as the Twilight novels are. I at least appreciate MA as something fun...

So..all of you against TT customization or for allowing ONLY stock variants..which of the MechWarrior games did you play, MW2 titles, MW3 titles, MW4 titles or MA titles(yes, they were 3 MAs made..I'm not surprised no one knows this, MA2 was a failure and MA3 was for Nintendo DS only..yes..you read that right).

[MuffinTop]

Hmmm...I would like to fit whatever I can on a mech, as long as I have enough heat sinks for the lasers for example. As it as has already been mentioned, its ridiculous to put 20 or 30 lasers or that many weapons on any mech chassis. Besides weapons, and heatsinks there is other equipment to have and it would be nice to put that on your mech. I for one, would like to be able to salvage weapons after a battle, either to sell or to add to my inventory. I read today here on the forums, thats still undecided by the devs.

[Alekto Serenis]

I cant phrase this out friendly and quote it as thats the thought i have all day

Kristov Kerensky, on 21 December 2011 - 01:18 PM, said:

I have a question for the people wanting no or extremely limited customization, which MW games did you play?

I ask this because of the statements I'm seeing as to why you don't want customization..boating..pop tarting..single alpha's taking out Mechs(but I've yet to see WHAT is doing that Alpha and WHAT is being cored). That's all stuff we did NOT see until MW4..well..we did see boats..usually for C combats..league combats using a specific weapon class, C1, energy, was pretty common, laser boats..totally useless outside of that specific league combat btw. The 'hardpoint' system in MW4 does nothing but promote boating, just look at it, it's obvious. I build configs in MW4 that I'd never use in BTech or any of the previous MW titles, pure suicide to use them. But in MW4..they not only work, they work really well. MW4 doesn't use the BTech rules for anything but terminology, that's about it. It's one step removed from the simplicity of MA..go figure right? Next version of the game that MS did was MA..guess MW4 was too complicated for their target audience. Take that however you want btw, MA was a fun little arcade game with giant stompy robots, but it was about BTech related as the Twilight novels are. I at least appreciate MA as something fun...

So..all of you against TT customization or for allowing ONLY stock variants..which of the MechWarrior games did you play, MW2 titles, MW3 titles, MW4 titles or MA titles(yes, they were 3 MAs made..I'm not surprised no one knows this, MA2 was a failure and MA3 was for Nintendo DS only..yes..you read that right).

[Tweaks]

Wolvers, on 21 December 2011 - 10:57 AM, said:

I wasn't talking about ranges or anything, I was specifically responding to this. I don't see how guns would change in customization, therefore you will still be able to recognize them. Range wasn't a problem when you were talking about the thrill of recognizing variants by looking at their guns.

I might have not explained this well then, but it's not what I meant. For example, if a given 'Mech's variant A has a PPC in its right arm, and an AC/10 in its left arm, and the variant B has 1x Large laser in each arm, then it would be relatively easy to make out the two apart from far away just by looking at the rough outline of the weapons of each arm, without knowing precisely what the weapons are. A PPC is bigger than an AC/10, and you know that's only those variants (let's suppose), so you could tell quickly that because the 2 arm weapons are not equal in size, that it must be the variant A...

That known, you can refer to what variant A's weak points are and counter them accordingly.

If you still don't understand this, I'll have to draw pictures...

Edited by Tweaks, 21 December 2011 - 02:08 PM.

[Damocles]

I guess I fall into the stock config crowd nowadays.
My wants: All canon variants of mechs included/purchasable, and refit kits for appropriate intro dates.

My reasons: I view it as a personal skill to have intimate knowledge of your opponents' loadout, this would not be completely possible as I would like all variants in-game but if you took the time to study your enemy then you could at least equal the playing field. You also can probably trick your opponent into mis-reading your loadout in certain cases.

As a rabid fan of BT lore, I do not see custom designs (and when I say custom I mean Widowmaker or Prometheus and not standard variants) prevalent. We are buying mechs from standard suppliers and we have limited resources with which to keep them running in the first place. So for me it is an immersion issue now.

Playing games like RO/DH/RO2 or IL-2 you become accustomed to your opponents capabilities. The different versions of the German Pz.4 have different attributes. When I see an Awesome 8Q in game I want to have an expectation on how to beat him or know that I just can't compete lol

The issue has never been boats-it is immersion. We are not all Kai Allard-Liao or have a billion C-bills to produce custom loadouts at a whim.

And for those who tend to have a hate-on for canon loadouts...try maybe reading up on them. There are so many variants out there you will probably find several to your style of play.

-Played MW2/3/4/MA and MM

/Damo

Edited by Damocles, 21 December 2011 - 02:12 PM.

[StonedDead]

Evildesires, on 17 December 2011 - 09:52 AM, said:

Another choice would be something like MW2 for the the mechs. Had a set load out but also had an alt load out for if you did not like a weapon. Something else that could be done is make a set weight and gun slot / size for all the mechs. I see the point both sides are making but if i do not want machine guns and would rather replace them with small lasers on my mad cat i would like that choice. There has to be a way to make both sides happy at the same time without letting the Alpha Strike guys go nuts.

Easy, up the heat ratios enough that it is almost infeasible to use an Alpha unless you absolutely have to. I would love to have fully custom mechs. I even liked MW4 mercs lab. If you played with all the options set for realism, it was almost impossible to have a mech that could alpha the crap out of anything at any time. You could max armor and heat and speed, but it left you with little extra weight for guns. You could end up with a bad ***ed assault mech and it only have pop guns for armament. But I do think that the big heavy weapons should produce enough heat that you can't keep up too steady a rate of fire with them so that people have to depend more on the lower levels of weapon types. Round capacity for machine guns and smaller AC should be upped too IMO. Purchased mechs should come loaded with the standard, or in select cases with a variant, but able to be customized by the pilot later and the expense of c-bills and time. I think the internal cpu/radar/optional parts should be able to be customized as well. By cpu i mean voice/layout of hud/and hud colors. I think radar should be able to be upgraded with the arrival of lostech/clan tech to superior models as finances and time allow.

(edit) By finances and time, if you are successful, you should be able to upgrade steadily, even if it is small-time upgrades. They should be expensive as the books portray the era to be old mechs falling apart and patched/repatched for decades because parts are too damn expensive to be affordable. If that is the case, salvage would be very important. I think salvaged weapons should have the possibility of being damaged and suffering in combat without being repaired first.

Edited by Zekester81, 21 December 2011 - 02:18 PM.