67 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

So...we await a new meta.

The new meta will be mobility, operations, and sensors as much as you can get for what you want.

This means there will literally be no choices...

You have to be able to move to keep up. Mobility is a flat out requirement.

You have to be able to track the enemy and remove yourself from their sensors. Sensors is a must.

You have to be able to fire sustained...so you need heat containment, cool running, and all of that to even be on the same level as others. Operations is a must.

So, effectively...this works out to be a flat nerf to current mechs.

Those of you thinking that you were going to load up on armor/structure buffs, or firepower buffs...have fun with that while the rest of your team leaves your mech behind and kills everything before you get there. When you do get shot with your armor structure buffs, good luck torso twisting without any mobility skills, and once you finally get to aim, good luck doing anything with it after your first volley with no cooling.

I am going to try this patch and see what happens, but this is not going to be the choice anyone thinks it will be...I may put this game back on the back burner for a while after this.

I can hear the potatoes screaming everything OP now because they will have no clue about why other mechs are so much more effective against them than they are. "Why is that clan mech shooting twice when I cannot shoot more than once...? Clans OP!"

Whatever...I guess the potatoes are getting what they thought they wanted.

[Ced Riggs]

The assumption seems to be that speed will suffer "a lot", when really, agility will be hit. I don't agree with your assumption. Speed will not change noticeably, and with the introduction of the LFE, IS speed will even increase.

[fat4eyes]

I could see assault brawlers foregoing sensors for defense. I can see already fast mechs (>120kmh) forgoing speed tweak (but not accel/decel or yaw speed) for weapons, I can see dual gauss poptarts completely ignoring heat and focusing on mobility and/or jumpjets. Not everyone is a laser poker.

Edited by fat4eyes, 15 May 2017 - 10:09 PM.

[Gyrok]

fat4eyes, on 15 May 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

I could see assault brawlers foregoing sensors for defense. I can see already fast mechs (>120kmh) forgoing speed tweak (but not accel/decel or yaw speed) for weapons, I can see dual gauss poptarts completely ignoring heat and focusing on mobility and/or jumpjets. Not everyone is a laser poker.

But you run an ERPPC with those Gauss, right?

Ced Riggs, on 15 May 2017 - 09:58 PM, said:

The assumption seems to be that speed will suffer "a lot", when really, agility will be hit. I don't agree with your assumption. Speed will not change noticeably, and with the introduction of the LFE, IS speed will even increase.

Not without speed tweak, at the bottom of the mobility tree...

[Khobai]

this skill tree is the last nail in the coffin for brawling IMO

between the cooldown nerfs and agility nerfs brawlers are getting bent over

plus the increased armor/structure makes PPFLD that much better than dps weapons

[Bishop Steiner]

Gyrok, on 15 May 2017 - 09:54 PM, said:

So...we await a new meta.

The new meta will be mobility, operations, and sensors as much as you can get for what you want.

This means there will literally be no choices...

You have to be able to move to keep up. Mobility is a flat out requirement.

You have to be able to track the enemy and remove yourself from their sensors. Sensors is a must.

You have to be able to fire sustained...so you need heat containment, cool running, and all of that to even be on the same level as others. Operations is a must.

So, effectively...this works out to be a flat nerf to current mechs.

Those of you thinking that you were going to load up on armor/structure buffs, or firepower buffs...have fun with that while the rest of your team leaves your mech behind and kills everything before you get there. When you do get shot with your armor structure buffs, good luck torso twisting without any mobility skills, and once you finally get to aim, good luck doing anything with it after your first volley with no cooling.

I am going to try this patch and see what happens, but this is not going to be the choice anyone thinks it will be...I may put this game back on the back burner for a while after this.

I can hear the potatoes screaming everything OP now because they will have no clue about why other mechs are so much more effective against them than they are. "Why is that clan mech shooting twice when I cannot shoot more than once...? Clans OP!"

Whatever...I guess the potatoes are getting what they thought they wanted.

PGI never hid that they were trying to introduce a global nerf.

Only an idiopt would deny the TTK and power creep issues were getting out of hand.

[radiv]

Gyrok, on 15 May 2017 - 09:54 PM, said:

So...we await a new meta.

The new meta will be mobility, operations, and sensors as much as you can get for what you want.

This means there will literally be no choices...

You have to be able to move to keep up. Mobility is a flat out requirement.

You have to be able to track the enemy and remove yourself from their sensors. Sensors is a must.

You have to be able to fire sustained...so you need heat containment, cool running, and all of that to even be on the same level as others. Operations is a must.

So, effectively...this works out to be a flat nerf to current mechs.

Those of you thinking that you were going to load up on armor/structure buffs, or firepower buffs...have fun with that while the rest of your team leaves your mech behind and kills everything before you get there. When you do get shot with your armor structure buffs, good luck torso twisting without any mobility skills, and once you finally get to aim, good luck doing anything with it after your first volley with no cooling.

I am going to try this patch and see what happens, but this is not going to be the choice anyone thinks it will be...I may put this game back on the back burner for a while after this.

I can hear the potatoes screaming everything OP now because they will have no clue about why other mechs are so much more effective against them than they are. "Why is that clan mech shooting twice when I cannot shoot more than once...? Clans OP!"

Whatever...I guess the potatoes are getting what they thought they wanted.

Most of this is a lie. Some mechs will be buffed some mechs will be nerfed because of the engine desync.
You dont need speed tweak to be able to follow ur group its not like its more important than engine size
You dont need sensors, its nice but not a requirement
You dont need heacontainment, you can just run pure ballistics

[PhoenixFire55]

There is no illusion of choice, there is an actual choice. You either choose to be bad, or choose to go meta.

[sycocys]

You don't need speed tweak, put a bigger engine in your..... oh wait clams..... hahahaha. Poor clams and their locked engines.

Guess if you want a go fast brawler with weapons skills, you go back to IS mechs.

[Felbombling]

Everything they're doing will slow down the pace of play. From what I noticed in the PTS, builds that were perfectly heat efficient needed tuning to perform in the test realm. Remove a weapon or two, add a heat-sink. Time to kill should increase for the time being, but the new tech coming in might reverse that.

[Ced Riggs]

StaggerCheck, on 16 May 2017 - 02:45 AM, said:

Everything they're doing will slow down the pace of play.

I am certain that is intentional.

[Felbombling]

By design, yes. ^^

[Vellron2005]

It seems to me that when mastered mechs are playing agains mastered mechs, overall balance will be about the same as it is now, even with slight buffs..

It's the basiced mechs that will be nerfed compared to before-skill tree basiced mechs..

But this too is good, because TTK was getting absurdly low, and the nerfs in question will extend TTK somewhat.. also, this is also all a preparation for the inevitable power creep the civil war will bring, so they nerf now, so they can power creep later..

It's logical..

[Scyther]

@Gyrok:
You can actually get all the useful Sensors, all the useful Ops, and all the useful Mobility for 66 nodes, currently. They made some changes Mobility tree so that may change by a node or two.

Leaving you 25 nodes to customize for firepower, armor, consumables, whatever.

The 'overall nerf to some stats' was partly covered in this thread:
https://mwomercs.com...hese-skills-do/

It's a clear part of their design, to dial back a bit on some areas like heat gen. That said, given what I can put on a mech with the new tree, it's an overall buff to the mech, with a nerf in some key areas.

It remains to be seen how engine de-sync and new tech will change the situation as well.

Despite your hyperbole, the situation does allow for choices, and interesting ones. Facts are nice things to work with, you should try it.

The only real issue is the fact that the IS tech gap (that thing you pretend doesn't exist) is made worse by the de-quirking, and there is no currently stated/scheduled fix in the works for that beyond PGI saying 'we have plans'.

[Bud Crue]

Can one of you people who assert that the meta is going to shift please explain what you think the meta is and what exactly in this patch makes you think that it is about to change?

From my perspective the meta is long range clan PPFLD to whcih the IS attempts to counter with ERLL running Grasshopper 5Ps and Battlemasters. I see nothing in the skills tree that will change that other than perhaps less folks taking Kodiaks due to its structure nerfs and thus relying more on the Night Gyr. Not a huge shift. But I am a scrub so I am probably not understanding something here, so I would appreciate some enlightenment as to what I am missing.

[Ced Riggs]

Bud Crue, on 16 May 2017 - 03:35 AM, said:

Can one of you people who assert that the meta is going to shift please explain what you think the meta is and what exactly in this patch makes you think that it is about to change?

Accodring to the forums, there is about 7.83 different metas, which are all going to be the one and only meta. None of those 7.83 metas are the Goose-Pepsi meta we are currently seeing, and most of those meta foretelling posts are about things that either were meta ages ago, or are perceived as meta because people got blapped by a certain mech once or twice.

For example, the Kodiak UAC spam is meta, the Quad UAC2 Timmy Wolf is meta, Octa UAC2 Direwhales are meta, and 12 SPL Novas are dominating scouting in Faction War, according to the forums. Meanwhile, Ice Ferrets run Scouting, and Goose Pepsi Nighgyrs bump shoulders with dakka 'Rauder IICs, but what do I know. According to Metamechs, last updated fivethousand earth rotations ago, alot of things NOT mentioned on the forums are meta.

Meanwhile, consumables are going to be new meta, firepower is OP (or UP, but UAC jam chance is OP, I never know which one it is, thread to thread). So yeah, take your pick. Everything is meta, everything is getting nerfed, and the thing you chose will not be meta, but the thing someone else talks about is totally going to be meta, also 5 air strikes is happening, the sky is falling and Jeb Bush is gonna run in 2018 2020.

[Bud Crue]

Ced Riggs, on 16 May 2017 - 03:56 AM, said:

Accodring to the forums, there is about 7.83 different metas, which are all going to be the one and only meta. None of those 7.83 metas are the Goose-Pepsi meta we are currently seeing, and most of those meta foretelling posts are about things that either were meta ages ago, or are perceived as meta because people got blapped by a certain mech once or twice.

For example, the Kodiak UAC spam is meta, the Quad UAC2 Timmy Wolf is meta, Octa UAC2 Direwhales are meta, and 12 SPL Novas are dominating scouting in Faction War, according to the forums. Meanwhile, Ice Ferrets run Scouting, and Goose Pepsi Nighgyrs bump shoulders with dakka 'Rauder IICs, but what do I know. According to Metamechs, last updated fivethousand earth rotations ago, alot of things NOT mentioned on the forums are meta.

Meanwhile, consumables are going to be new meta, firepower is OP (or UP, but UAC jam chance is OP, I never know which one it is, thread to thread). So yeah, take your pick. Everything is meta, everything is getting nerfed, and the thing you chose will not be meta, but the thing someone else talks about is totally going to be meta, also 5 air strikes is happening, the sky is falling and Jeb Bush is gonna run in 2018 2020.

I'll try again:

Can a competitive player (someone with MRBC or top team experience) who believes that the meta is going to shift please explain what you think the meta is, and what exactly in this patch makes you think that it is about to change?

From my perspective the meta is long range clan PPFLD to which the IS attempts to counter with ERLL running Grasshopper 5Ps and Battlemasters. I see nothing in the skills tree that will change that other than perhaps less folks taking Kodiaks due to its structure nerfs and thus relying more on the Night Gyr. Not a huge shift. But I am a scrub so I am probably not understanding something here, so I would appreciate some enlightenment as to what I am missing.

I'm not being snarky, I'm not looking to bash PGI, I'm not trying to start another clan vs IS shiptoast commentary, etc. I want to understand what the better players think the direction of the game -in at least the very short term- will shift to if they think it will shift at all, and why. Since I don't see much change as a result of the skills tree, I assume I am missing something and want to know what it is I am missing if anything.

Edited by Bud Crue, 16 May 2017 - 04:05 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Bud Crue, on 16 May 2017 - 03:35 AM, said:

Can one of you people who assert that the meta is going to shift please explain what you think the meta is and what exactly in this patch makes you think that it is about to change?

My points about meta shift for this patch have come down to mostly which mechs will be the most viable to use the meta loadouts, particularly because of the engine decoupling and associated effects, the meta loadouts weren't really going to change unless hardpoints, ghost heat or the weapons themselves change.

Then there's the talk of the pass to energy weapons, which may alter meta, and of course the civil war weapons, but they are not related to this patch.

That's about all my meta change assertions have been in regards to.

Ced Riggs, on 16 May 2017 - 03:56 AM, said:

Accodring to the forums, there is about 7.83 different metas,

Also this, depends who you ask

[CDLord HHGD]

What a grand new day for MWO!

[General Solo]

I think at any new meta wont be as far from the baseline as was possible before