128 replies to this topic

[tortcat]

Heat Gen or Cool running. What would be the better choice(s) for an assault mech?

ON an Assault (or Heavy) which do you think is better OR do you feel both are needed?

[Athom83]

Heat gen first. Then Cool run if you have the points.

[Angel of Annihilation]

They both do the same thing, the reduce the heat caused by weapons being fired so I don't think one is better than the other. The real question however is the value of the nodes you have to buy to get these skills.

Getting -10% to heat generation in weapons is going to require a huge investment in that tree. Getting -10% to Cool Run is going to require a huge investment in Mech Operations.

An investment in weapons means you need something like 24 points in Weapons to get the -10% heat generation and your only getting like 5% to weapons range and a few very minor buffs to a scattering of weapon types. On the contrast, Mech Operations will give you things like the +15% to heat containment, -35% to quick ignition, Hill Climb bonuses, Improved gyro to reduce shake by over 50%, all for about 21 points invested. Overall if your goal is to reduce heat, I think you got a bit more bang for the buck out of going with Mech Operations.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Cool run unless you plan on heavily investing into firepower. It takes more than 10 heat gen nodes to overcome cool run.

[R Valentine]

Cool run. Heat gen is percentage based off of how much heat your weapons generate, and that percentage is dismal. .75% a node? Talk about being skimpy. Cool run is also easier to reach most of the time. That tree is smaller. Cool run first, heat gen second.

[Soul Catcher]

I went Cool Run.
It seems my Energy creates more heat not but the Cool Run bleeds it off Faster.
Or it may just look that way

[Samedi Wretch]

Setting aside the skill point costs for each, -10% heat gen is a little better than +10% heat dispersion. In an ideal scenario both will produce the same DPS, but in a realistic scenario -10% heat gives you more head room, ie longer time to overheat. It's effectively cool run and heat containment rolled into one.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

samadhiVOID, on 17 May 2017 - 12:32 PM, said:

It's effectively cool run and heat containment rolled into one.

While this is true, for the points you are investing, you could easily get heat containment and cool run for pretty much the same investment (you can max out heat gen at 10.5% for 14 SP or 15% higher heat cap and 10% better dissipation for 10 SP) without counting all the nodes required to get to that point.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 17 May 2017 - 12:37 PM.

[MischiefSC]

You can easily do both.

Result is energy boats with a crap ton of heat management. I've got a Supernova with 88 heat capacity and 6 erlls that just rolls 2x2x2, making a lightsaber of rage doing 66 pts every 3 seconds to anything wandering into the open. 22 DPS at 800m, *******! For almost 12 seconds! Or 3x3 2x is a row vs someone wanting to be pokey at range. WHERE IS YOUR 5XERLL GHR GOD NOW?!?

Heat management swings a lot on capacity - how long can you sustain your generation vs your dissipation. That tells you how many alphas you'll get before you need to back off and how long you have to back off for.

On lower heat mechs or burst damage/heat mechs it's not as critical as it is on mechs like brawlers or ERLL range builds but it's always good.

[R Valentine]

samadhiVOID, on 17 May 2017 - 12:32 PM, said:

Setting aside the skill point costs for each, -10% heat gen is a little better than +10% heat dispersion. In an ideal scenario both will produce the same DPS, but in a realistic scenario -10% heat gives you more head room, ie longer time to overheat. It's effectively cool run and heat containment rolled into one.

That would only be true if the values were similar, but given that cool run comes in 2%, heat containment in 3%, and heat gen in a mere .75%, there's no world where one node of heat gen even compares to one node of cool run.

[Jay Leon Hart]

20 SP in Operations
31 SP in Firepower
32 SP in Firepower (swap 2.5% Missile Spread for 2% Range)

Depends what else you want, really. I would grab a bit of both.

23 SP - 14 SP in Firepower, 9 SP in Operations

[Johnny Z]

I am new to this but a cool running load out can skip cool run. Although cool run is better because if it is skipped entirely dissipation is really slow. This is part of the new balance.

This part of the new balance helped my Phoenix Hawk hero which is forced to rely on 2 LPL in the right arm mostly until the new tech comes out. 2 LPL run cool so everything was put into the firepower tree. But took a match to get the slow cooling down right.

Edited by Johnny Z, 17 May 2017 - 12:57 PM.

[Davegt27]

Quote

You can easily do both.

Result is energy boats with a crap ton of heat management. I've got a Supernova with 88 heat capacity and 6 erlls that just rolls 2x2x2, making a lightsaber of rage doing 66 pts every 3 seconds to anything wandering into the open. 22 DPS at 800m, *******! For almost 12 seconds! Or 3x3 2x is a row vs someone wanting to be pokey at range. WHERE IS YOUR 5XERLL GHR GOD NOW?!?

Heat management swings a lot on capacity - how long can you sustain your generation vs your dissipation. That tells you how many alphas you'll get before you need to back off and how long you have to back off for.

On lower heat mechs or burst damage/heat mechs it's not as critical as it is on mechs like brawlers or ERLL range builds but it's always good.

I have a 5ERLL Cat that is a smaller target
just keep in mind just because something works now does not mean PGI wont stealth nerf it tomorrow
my opinion is PGI does not want people re-specing there mechs which is the reason for the re-spec costs
why don't they wont re-specs ---because it makes it harder to balance

every time I showed up with some crazy load out that did 1400 damage the first time out (4 CLPL TW for example) it got
stealth nerfed pretty quick

just a heads up
GLHF

[kapusta11]

18 points in Operations
https://tarogato-mwo...4c-97cdc7dc6330

36 points in Firepower but you also get 10-15% laser duration
https://tarogato-mwo...4c-5d123ce1964f

If you don't need laser duration then stick with Operations.

Edited by kapusta11, 17 May 2017 - 01:29 PM.

[Foxwalker]

I am having a hard time deciding between Operations vs Weapon Skill tree for heat management.

For Operations, you have to take a bunch of silly stuff to get to the Heat Containment and Cool Run,
On the other hand, the Heat Gen while less per node is nicely inter-spaced between needed stuff like Cool down, Velocity and Range modifiers.

I am torn. I guess I am going to waste a lot of XP and C-Bills till the number cruncher guys come up with the best meta for this stuff.

[sycocys]

Heat gen is on a far more useful tree.

[Old-dirty B]

Heat gen or coolrun, node for node?

This really depends... the more heat is produced the more advantage heat gen gives, the more cooling / dissipation you have favors coolrun. I did some calculations for my locust 1E (which has 12 heat and 7+3 heatsinks) and that just very slightly favoured heat gen over coolrun, acquiring heat gen nodes usually comes with additional nodes that are generally considered more usefull (cooldown, range and velociy) then those you get extra when acquiring coolrun (gyros, hillclimb, quick ign).

[Felicitatem Parco]

Cool run gets you more heat management per node if you only count those particular nodes. Generating 0.75% less heat is not as good as dissipating 2% more heat, in my opinion.

It does really depend on the other nodes you get on the way. Getting Heat Capacity and Cool Down nodes both from the operations tree will keep you cooler than just the heat generation nodes from firepower... But then you do get those other firepower nodes.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 17 May 2017 - 03:17 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Prosperity Park, on 17 May 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

Getting Heat Capacity and Cool Down nodes both from the operations tree will keep you cooler than just the heat generation nodes from firepower...

Actually, this isn't quite true. Heat gen quirks can give you superior DPS over cool run if you get all 14 nodes, but there is a trade off in the fact you spend 4 extra nodes for heat gen (14 vs 10) and lose out in heat capacity (15% extra capacity > -10.5% heat gen). The ultimate question you have to ask is whether or not you consider the cooldown and range node to get all of the heat gen nodes worth losing a bit of SP efficiency.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 17 May 2017 - 03:22 PM.

[sycocys]

The best mixed solution as far as I could tell is to get most to all of the heat gen, and corresponding range/duration/velocity in that tree and only go to a couple heat capacity in the other.

If you actually have heat sinks on your mech and multiple fire groups you won't need cool run - also if you run in a team and focus fire/run cycles you probably really barely even need the heat capacity nodes. You could instead waste those points on more heat free strikes or other marginally more useful things like being able to walk up hills and twist your mech about like an inflatable flailing arm man.